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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is this maternal enmeshment or AIBU?

223 replies

disco82 · 26/01/2022 14:03

Have noticed lots of odd things in the relationship between my bf and his mother, that I have tried to ignore. But am beginning to question if they are unhealthily enmeshed or AIBU? Examples:

He has never moved away from home and is late 30s. Has only now put down an offer on a flat but it is down the road from mum.
She has never met me in 18 months, and I have never been allowed in their house. He says it's because she is embarrassed of how run down it is. However, one night when she was away, he took me over and the house was absolutely fine. Also she works with clients in the house. We have bumped into her a few times in the town so she does know I'm a gf.
Every time he is with me (and she knows), she texts him asking if he will be home for dinner or will be home that night. He says she is just checking he is ok. But I feel insulted she needs to check this when he is with me?
She still cooks meals for him and does his laundry. He can do these things himself as he does it when he is with me.
He is expected to pay for all house repairs and look after the house and garden.
I live alone but he only spends 2 nights a week at mine and the rest at his mums, even though I have invited him to spend more.
He once cut short our time together as he wanted to go home to say goodbye to his mum who was going away for the weekend. He didn't think this was an odd thing to do, but to me it felt like something you do for a partner.
I have no family in this country and couldn't go home to my parents for Xmas due to Covid rules. On 2 Xmas-es she said I couldn't spend it with them as she didn't know me well enough and Xmas wasn't the right time to get to know me. The first Xmas I accepted this as we had only been dating 6 months, second Xmas I was quite shocked. So he decided to spend Xmas with me instead, but still had to go over to hers for most of the afternoon, even though she had her other family with her, and I was alone.
He runs every decision past her, even ones he doesn't talk to me about.
He tells her all the details about what we do together/where we go - they have a ritual of going for a walk every evening together.
He admitted to me that she wouldn't be that pleased if he got married/had kids but couldn't explain why.
There are no photos of him or his brothers anywhere in the house, and he has no idea where they may be. Not sure it means anything but thought it odd given how close they are.
She and his dad got divorced 25 years ago but she has never had a partner since - not sure if it is relevant, but i thought maybe that is why they are so close. He also has 2 other brothers and they too have never left home and are in their 30s, but they are not so close to her, and don't contribute to the household expenses like he does.

OP posts:

oldageblah · 26/01/2022 17:25

Nah. Unless he is willing to do a 180 change on how he lives then it’s probably going to be a case of you versus her. Forever!

PopcornPeacock · 26/01/2022 17:27

I had one of those a long time ago. When his dad died you could metaphorically see his mum pick him up and put him in his dads place. From then on she became so much more demanding on his time and attention, to the point where, when I asked him what was going on he sent a one word reply........'goodbye'.

Bullet dodged!

RachelGreeneGreep · 26/01/2022 17:37

Also when he is making plans for the future, his mum features heavily - like he insists we have to live close to his mum always, he runs every decision past her rather than me (even on areas I am an actual expert on), and so much of his financial planning involves what's best for her, not what's best for him. So unlikely that my needs will be considered. So it's not looking positive for a future together.

No, no, no. Get out now before getting involved any further. She would probably go with the two of you on honeymoon.

TheVanguardSix · 26/01/2022 17:41

Extricate yourself asap. How sad that you'll have to do this because it will be hard. But you will absolutely live out a life of bitter regret with this man on so many levels. That is a guarantee. Don't do it to yourself, OP.

WonderfulYou · 26/01/2022 17:43

Yes she sounds a bit controlling but it wouldn’t really bother me I don’t think.

It sounds they have a great relationship and like he needs to care for her.

My only worry would be he’s caring for her as she guilt trips him into it but actually he might just enjoy her company.

JollyHolly30 · 26/01/2022 17:43

Have a proper conversation and if he's not willing to drastically amend the situation with his mother, then you have to get out.

TillyTopper · 26/01/2022 17:48

I really don't see how you can have a long term relationship with him let alone get married or have children. From what you describe they have a strange relationship, perhaps brought on my him looking after her post her divorce. He's not going to change. I'm sorry, I honestly think you have to get out for your own sanity and find someone else.

Roselilly36 · 26/01/2022 17:53

I wonder how many relationships she has ruined for her son. Seems a very strange dynamic. I know someone like this who just controls her adult children’s lives so much, all their relationships fail, because of her controlling & manipulative ways. It’s a real shame. Think very carefully about the future with this man OP. Really mean to let you spend Christmas alone. Good luck for the future.

RussiasGreatestLoveMachine · 26/01/2022 17:55

So she won’t meet you at Christmas because it’s not the right time to get to know you …

But then won’t meet you at any other time of the year either?

This has gone on at least a year too long.

Every single thread you read on here outlining a dysfunctional relationship always boils down to women steadfastly ignoring all the red flags, warning signs and ill feeling they are getting.

chaosrabbitland · 26/01/2022 18:07

i am the first one to say that i dont think that adult children living at home should be labeled mummies boys or that its somewhat unatural , they arent independent and all the other stuff said , i lived at home with my parents for years and moved out when i was 32 , however i was fully independent , i went out and stayed out overnight if i wanted , the only thing that was insisted on was a courtesey call of where i was staying , which i felt was fair , if i was seeing someone i never had phone calls about when i was coming home as she knew where i was , she did do all my laundry and cooking for some reason if i ever tried i used to get shooed away lol but i never expected her to and when they went away on their frequent holidays i kept the house , did all my cooking and looked after all the cats , she met mostly everyone i was seeing even the casual ones lol . there was a few bad boys though and she did ask me bluntly what are you doing with him ? lol i did have the sense to never introduce them to the drug dealer i was seeing for a few months though ,

my mother always said you have your children and know that one day they will be independent and leave to live their own lives ,

sadly op i dont ever think your boyfriends mum has or ever will say this or even bloody think it .
she wants him tied to her until hes in his 60s and shes old and getting feeble and then hes there to look after her in her old age ,
which is why she doesnt want to meet you , acknowledge her son actually has a woman in his life , she would be happy if he was a virgin and never moving out at all

he may be moving out , but her control over him will continue , in the form of endless phone calls and guilt tripping , you will always be sadly fighting her even though it might not be apparent that way
she will see you as the enemy , you are the woman taking him from her ,vying for his affection and attention .

i met and had a few coffees a few years ago with a man a lot like your ex , it never got beyond the few coffees , certainly not into anything physical because all he talked about was his mother , i knew i had to not even answer the phonecalls after he came around , and 2 minutes later his mum rang and wanted him home and he couldnt leave quickly enough for fear of upsetting her , it was very sad and pitiful , this was a man in this forties like i was then,

personally id finish this , you need to find someone who is free to be with you , and he isnt , might not be a married man , but the behaviour is the same as hes practically married to his mum , everything he does is controlled by her and sneaking about making sure your not seen to much for fear of her dissapointment .

TheCatterall · 26/01/2022 18:35

There is no future in this relationship.

And when you end it he will never understand why it didnt work…

Run. Run now. Don’t worry about him. Mummy will make it all better.

#bitty

Bitofachinwag · 26/01/2022 18:39

@xILikeJamx

They are almost certainly shagging

What an awful thing to say

NeverChange · 26/01/2022 18:50

I might have dated your boyfriend in the past. Similar story, dad died young and he was his mother's stand-in husband.

I eventually managed to get him to move in with me, about 2 hours away, on the basis his mother managed fine without him in college.

I had overlooked the fact that he used to go home at weekends when in college. First weekend in our apartment, he announces he is going home at the weekend to visit mummy. Left Friday evening, not back until late Sinday night. Same thing the following weekend. Third weekend, I had organised for us to go out on Saturday and told him to advise mummy that he wouldn't be home that weekend. Friday evening came and we had a lovely night in. First thing Saturday morning, mummy rings to say she thinks someone has been at the back gate and she doesn't feel safe, can he come home to put a lock on it....we had a row but he still went....one day you'll be elderly and scared, and you'll want someone to go to you etc.....anyway rinse and repeat for weeks before we broke up.

The best part was when we got an invite to his cousins wedding - addressed to both of us by name. She got one with Marie plus guest. She immediately RSVPd to say she would attending with her son as her guest!!!

Over it now but god I hated that women and him for being so goddamn stupid. I do wonder when she dies,if it will dawn on him how he gave up his own life or her. (Ok maybe not over it, still a bit bitter!!!)

Run....his mother will always be prioritised.

ChoiceMummy · 26/01/2022 19:16

I wouldn't call 18 months in and a 2 night a weeker a longterm girlfriend. Girlfriend yes, but that's it.

I also don't think that anyone should have to have anyone over at Christmas that they don't know.

We've endured this twice and you know what it's shit as it feels uncomfortable and noone should HAVE to feel that way. Great if someone chooses it.

You sound as though it wouldn't matter what she or he does, you wouldn't approve and would read negative things into. In that case, I think its fairer to him that you run now.

chaosrabbitland · 26/01/2022 19:19

@NeverChange

I might have dated your boyfriend in the past. Similar story, dad died young and he was his mother's stand-in husband.

I eventually managed to get him to move in with me, about 2 hours away, on the basis his mother managed fine without him in college.

Run....his mother will always be prioritised.

its so very sad isnt it ? when i tried to reason with this bloke i only ever had coffees with ,but who was desperate enough to suggest we be boyfriend and girlfriend and hed never put so much as a hand on me , i was forced to say no , i found reasoning was impossible he could not see that his relationship with his mother was not natural or as it should be . his words to me were shes my best friend , i love spending evenings watching tv with her , when i gently pointed out she wasnt going to be here forever , he matter of factley said i will probably kill myself , there wont be any point once shes gone , it chilled me to the bone frankly

and these people regardless of male or female dont have it in them to push back , have a row , assert their independence , they have been conditioned by years of subtle manipulation and guilt tripping .
i feel like really to do this to your children is abuse . i really do , its nothing short of cruelty

ESGdance · 26/01/2022 19:57

Spousification - Google that.

You are just a “booty call” and his first emotional relationship is with his DM - he is preoccupied with her and she is her priority.

HE is also allowing her to disrespect you (the Christmas stuff) exclude you and disrupt and sabotage your sex life.

Original poster

disco82 · 26/01/2022 19:57

@ChoiceMummy

I wouldn't call 18 months in and a 2 night a weeker a longterm girlfriend. Girlfriend yes, but that's it.

I also don't think that anyone should have to have anyone over at Christmas that they don't know.

We've endured this twice and you know what it's shit as it feels uncomfortable and noone should HAVE to feel that way. Great if someone chooses it.

You sound as though it wouldn't matter what she or he does, you wouldn't approve and would read negative things into. In that case, I think its fairer to him that you run now.

I suppose what matters is that HE sees me as a serious gf and has communicated as much to everyone in his life, including his mother. The relationship is getting to the point we are talking cohabiting which is why I am trying to figure out whether this is an issue. I am divorced and also own my property, so am always cautious when progressing relationships.

Regarding Xmas - you're right, his family absolutely should not host anyone they don't want to, and it would have been more awkward for me. However, I didn't want him to have to choose so agreed to his plan to spend it with them. What was shocking was her expectation that he would choose to leave me alone and spend it with them (for the second time), and also her demanding he still see them most of Xmas day. I'm obviously not going to think too kindly of anyone who doesn't want me in their house (ever), whatever the reason, and also expects my bf to abandon me on a day that no one should spend alone. I normally spend Xmas in my home country so it was never going to be a regular thing for her to worry about.

I definitely don't want a life with a MIL so heavily involved in it, when she doesn't seem to like me/want to know me. So yes, I do read this as a negative situation and trying to assess just how much of a problem it really is.

OP posts:

ESGdance · 26/01/2022 19:58

It’s also called emotional incest.

ancientgran · 26/01/2022 20:03

@Hillarious

Well my DS lives at home, and I ask him if he'll be back for dinner or staying out overnight. I like to know how much to cook and whether I can double lock the front door.

My sons don't live at home but I think that's the bit that is reasonable. I'd want to know if I should cook a meal (hate waste) and would lock the door before I go to bed if he wasn't going to be in.

Other things not so reasonable but I did know a couple where the husband had been like this but once he was married it completely changed. I don't think you can rely on that though.

ChoiceMummy · 26/01/2022 20:05

Your Christmas arrangements though are your issue. Your choice to make him choose between you and his family when he's quite literally dating you. There's no real commitment per se at the 18 months point. And no, I don't think that it reflects poorly on her for not inviting you.

And tbh, until your boyfriend has announced that you are anything beyond a 2 nighter, I wouldn't be taking you home either and tbh, I wouldn't want every possible dalliance over my threshold over!
I genuinely think youre reading way too much into everything and letting it run away...

LimpLettice · 26/01/2022 20:07

@disco82 Run. Don't walk, don't look back, run.

I had a baby with a man like this. He is still so enmeshed none of his relationships have worked. She controls every single aspect of his life with a mixture of fear, emotional blackmail and simple force. He is constantly on the verge of a breakdown, a fucking useless parent to all his kids, financially still so enmeshed his current partner will not move in.

What said about about feeling like the OW struck a chord. Long ago we had some Relate sessions and the counsellor was really horrified by just how like a mistress I was treated. His mum did all the wifely duties except one, so if I wasn't putting out enough, what good was I? She was SO interfering and so self righteous about it, and he thought it was normal. It still fucks me off today when I think about the mess of it all and we split over a decade ago.

WhatDidISayAlan · 26/01/2022 20:12

@ChoiceMummy if you aren’t prepared to set a place at your table for someone who is away from her country and will be alone then I’m bloody glad you’re not my MIL. We’ve had soldier friends of my brother who didn’t have family, a friend of my dad’s who was alone because his kids were at his ex’s all day, and a friend from school who was a cared for child in between fosters. I would not have been able to sleep knowing they were in their own. You obviously have a colder conscience than I.

LightSpeeds · 26/01/2022 20:12

She and his dad got divorced 25 years ago but she has never had a partner since

He's her partner, I'm afraid...

ElectraBlue · 26/01/2022 20:12

Oh dear...

It sounds like a very unhealthy, obsessive relationship between mother and son. She is still treating him, and his brothers, like a child.

She is not going to be supportive of any relationships he has and you are setting yourself up for some serious heartache.

He has not been able to set up some health boundaries with his parent.

Run.

Original poster

disco82 · 26/01/2022 20:14

@chaosrabbitland Thank you very much for your insights. It's been very helpful to read. And I think this is really the crux of the issue - my bf is a people pleaser and not great at setting boundaries. I am always surprised how little he thinks of his own needs and hopes/dreams and now it makes sense why.

@NeverChange oh my god! That sounds like it would have been so frustrating. I suppose this is what I am worried about, that even living together would mean he is still at his mums most of the week. We have already had a situation when his mother called him when he was with me to come home and check the alarm system despite both his brothers being home! And I think, everyone is right, that even if he agrees with me to set boundaries etc, old habits will die hard. And his mum will hate me even more. Don't think I can win.

OP posts:

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