Is this maternal enmeshment or AIBU?

[disco82]

Have noticed lots of odd things in the relationship between my bf and his mother, that I have tried to ignore. But am beginning to question if they are unhealthily enmeshed or AIBU? Examples:

1. He has never moved away from home and is late 30s. Has only now put down an offer on a flat but it is down the road from mum.
2. She has never met me in 18 months, and I have never been allowed in their house. He says it's because she is embarrassed of how run down it is. However, one night when she was away, he took me over and the house was absolutely fine. Also she works with clients in the house. We have bumped into her a few times in the town so she does know I'm a gf.
3. Every time he is with me (and she knows), she texts him asking if he will be home for dinner or will be home that night. He says she is just checking he is ok. But I feel insulted she needs to check this when he is with me?
4. She still cooks meals for him and does his laundry. He can do these things himself as he does it when he is with me.
5. He is expected to pay for all house repairs and look after the house and garden.
6. I live alone but he only spends 2 nights a week at mine and the rest at his mums, even though I have invited him to spend more.
7. He once cut short our time together as he wanted to go home to say goodbye to his mum who was going away for the weekend. He didn't think this was an odd thing to do, but to me it felt like something you do for a partner.
8. I have no family in this country and couldn't go home to my parents for Xmas due to Covid rules. On 2 Xmas-es she said I couldn't spend it with them as she didn't know me well enough and Xmas wasn't the right time to get to know me. The first Xmas I accepted this as we had only been dating 6 months, second Xmas I was quite shocked. So he decided to spend Xmas with me instead, but still had to go over to hers for most of the afternoon, even though she had her other family with her, and I was alone.
9. He runs every decision past her, even ones he doesn't talk to me about.
10. He tells her all the details about what we do together/where we go - they have a ritual of going for a walk every evening together.
11. He admitted to me that she wouldn't be that pleased if he got married/had kids but couldn't explain why.
12. There are no photos of him or his brothers anywhere in the house, and he has no idea where they may be. Not sure it means anything but thought it odd given how close they are.
13. She and his dad got divorced 25 years ago but she has never had a partner since - not sure if it is relevant, but i thought maybe that is why they are so close. He also has 2 other brothers and they too have never left home and are in their 30s, but they are not so close to her, and don't contribute to the household expenses like he does.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Yes, very enmeshed. He may be a lovely guy. But until he can put boundaries up to his mother, he isn’t going to make a lovely partner.

exactly this

Oh you mean more manipulation?

@ChoiceMummy I'm not convinced you understand what manipulation is. Can you quote one example of OP behaving manipulatively toward her b/f?

I'll give you a clue - manipulation has nothing to do with clearly stating your needs or wants to another person ...

Is he White British OP? I ask because I have a (British) Asian colleague and both her and her husband are both extremely enmeshed with their parents, and feel it's very normal to phone your mum every lunch break to tell her what you are eating They involve/consult their parents in the most minor decisions and I could absolutely see them being very happy to buy a home so that they could host them.

Like others have said, run.

You're never going to be number 1 in his life. Please don't wait around for him in the hope he changes, he won't.

OP, a few things jumped out at me.

Firstly, are you a different ethnicity to your bf? You've mentioned your "home country" and I wondered if perhaps there was a racism element to her not being keen to meet you? I hope that isn't the case, but the thought crossed my mind.

Is your username your birth year? If so you don't have time to waste if you're interested in settling down and having DC.

What sort of relationship does bf have with his brothers? Does he socialise with them? Including you in plans with them?

You seem like a sensible and nice woman stuck in a perpetual teenage relationship. If I were you I'd run!

A colleague had this. She wasted 3 years on it. Seriously I would move on.

To posters who have asked about ethnicity, yes, I am a different ethnicity to them (but have lived in UK for 18 years). They are white British. However, I don't think it could be a race thing (I did ask him) as we all live in a very multicultural part of the country and they do have people of my ethnicity in the extended family and their social network.

Also, she has never met any of his ex gfs or even any of the other brothers' gfs - and they were all white British and one Canadian. I did wonder if that's why all their relationships never progressed beyond the 4-5 month mark as not being able to see where your bf lives and sleeps (unless you are snuck in like I was) is really weird.

Not sure it makes any difference but his mum has a post grad degree and has traveled quite a bit solo, so i always assumed very worldly and independent. Which is why i am so surprised at how emotionally/financially dependent on my bf she is.

Also I am 36 so definitely not looking to waste time, which is why I wanted advice here on whether it's something that can be fixed or not. I am going to talk to him this evening to see what his feelings on the future are. But am prepared this might be the break up convo as i think these behaviours are too ingrained in him to change even if he wanted to.

Oh god it sounds awful. Like there are three of you in the relationship. Doesn't it give you the ick? It would seriously turn me off a man if he ran off to be with his mum whenever she clicks her fingers.

I think you need to end it. Imagine you had a baby and his mum called but you needed help doing bath and bed as you weren't feeling well. Who would he choose!?

Choicemummy are you the MIL? this has obviously touched a nerve with you! If you recognise your own relationships in this situation then you need to be having a long hard look at yourself as the scenario described is incredibly unhealthy for everyone involved.

Talk is cheap. He can promise to put you first, but actions speak louder than words.

Maybe shake things up abit. Suggest to go out on a non-date night. Get him to turn his phone off when with you, or put it in another room. Ask him to keep your private life, private. If mum rings, and demands his time, then if it wasn’t a genuine emergency (ie house on fire), and his brothers aren’t at home, then, he needs to learn not to go running.

Maybe give him a time frame (in your mind, you don’t have to tell him)) and if things don’t change, by September (or whenever) then ditch him.

It's like Psycho, with a living mother.

@milkyaqua for the win!
😱🔪😱🔪😱

The thing is there shouldn’t be a ‘putting X first’ because mother and girlfriend are 2 completely different relationships. When one gets jealous of the other you know the roles are merging and that’s unhealthy. The mother usually wins.

I can’t imagine being in a relationship like this. Him and his mum are so tightly enmeshed in an unhealthy way. Sounds like he’s her surrogate husband, and she’s reattached the umbilical cord.

Emotional incest indeed. It’s one thing having a close, loving relationship with a parent but this is almost like a partnership to the exclusion of any other healthy relationships. And interesting that his brothers are treated almost the same too - “allowed” to have relationships but then those relationships are squeezed and twisted and have the life choked out of them. And these men don’t seem to see why, or how wrong that is.

As lovely as seems to be to you - he isn’t really. A lovely man wouldn’t prioritise his mum over you, he’d find a way to balance both, very different types of relationship. As others have said you almost seem like the other woman. The only thing that you give him that she can’t is sex, and that’s not enough is it.

I’d leave. You will be sad, but you’ll thank yourself in 5 years.

Yes - you are a 2 nights a week booty call.

The only thing that you give him that she can’t is sex, and that’s not enough is it.

Know that all of his previous relationships worked this out at 4-5 months and ran.

Are you used to taking less in life?

Don't ever marry him. My sis was married to a guy like this. Ended in a divorce after a few months. He has taken the role of replacement man in the house, so his and his mum are the decision makers and what they said went. That also meant that anyone else with an opinion was abused and ridiculed. It will get worse if you live with him. Just like 'every body loves raymond' kind of scenario where you will be living next door to your MIL, she will be popping in every single moment to 'help', and nothing you do will ever be good enough for them.

Couple of things spring to mind..

Firstly @ChoiceMummy is probably your MIL

Secondly

Want bitty

@ESGdance

Yes - you are a 2 nights a week booty call.

The only thing that you give him that she can’t is sex, and that’s not enough is it.

Know that all of his previous relationships worked this out at 4-5 months and ran.

Are you used to taking less in life?

It's a fair point why it took so long to realise. I think Covid restrictions changed normal life so much for all of us - it wasn't immediately obvious. It wasn't until all restrictions lifted, I noticed things weren't quite right. And the 2 days a week are because we were both needing to do overtime with Covid and our working hours clashed. Even if we lived together though we'd still only have 2 days of quality time - but I think anyone who dates a shift worker can expect this.

But we'd adjust our weekly days off to coincide so we could see each other. Also took all our holiday time to be together.

These unsocial hours were always a temporary arrangement. We both went back to normal hours and I've had more time and breathing room to observe what is going on. And now I've noticed, I'm really annoyed at myself for not picking up on it sooner!

Some are odd and some are fine. Lots of women see their mums everyday, live round the corner to them etc. Infact most of the school mums are in this situation - never moved away.

@MacauliflowerCulkin

Couple of things spring to mind..

Firstly @ChoiceMummy is probably your MIL

Secondly

Want bitty

I saw 'bitty' mentioned on here a few times and had to Google it.

Oh my days, that made me laugh! Thank you. It's a great sketch but also depressing to admit it's in your life.

@disco82

Honestly, you deserve so much better.

You'll always be the OW.
She's literally dictating your future with him. It's emotional incest.

He needs to do better, and you deserve better.

Wait, she's like this with all of her sons? It's just that she's more demanding of your bf's attention than the others? They ALL live at home?

Oh no. No no no no no.

36!?!? Eeep yeah you need to run for the hills make a decision.

Bare in mind when you speak to a people pleaser they will, by nature, try to please you too (& so my guess is he will tell you what you want to hear)

A few posters have flagged this but watch his actions not his words…. I really don’t think this will improve.
My DH / MIL have a MUCH less enmeshed relationship - he TOTALLY gets it, she’s it’s toxic, understand the dynamic, is having therapy and is pretty good at push back. it’s still a massive struggle and the elephant in the room in our marriage.
The fact she is 300 miles away is the saving grace…

EVEN if he has a lightbulb moment me does a 180 volte face, his mother will NOT quietly get with the program. There will be a lengthy campaign of fear obligation and guilt and it will be a total nightmare. (Sorry)

@Totalwasteofpaper

36!?!? Eeep yeah you need to run for the hills make a decision.

Bare in mind when you speak to a people pleaser they will, by nature, try to please you too (& so my guess is he will tell you what you want to hear)

A few posters have flagged this but watch his actions not his words…. I really don’t think this will improve.
My DH / MIL have a MUCH less enmeshed relationship - he TOTALLY gets it, she’s it’s toxic, understand the dynamic, is having therapy and is pretty good at push back. it’s still a massive struggle and the elephant in the room in our marriage.
The fact she is 300 miles away is the saving grace…

EVEN if he has a lightbulb moment me does a 180 volte face, his mother will NOT quietly get with the program. There will be a lengthy campaign of fear obligation and guilt and it will be a total nightmare. (Sorry)

EVEN if he has a lightbulb moment me does a 180 volte face, his mother will NOT quietly get with the program. There will be a lengthy campaign of fear obligation and guilt and it will be a total nightmare. (Sorry)

This really made me see things clearly and realise a break up is the only way. Because you're right, he does always agree and say he understands something, only for me to realise later that actually he hasn't at all (people pleaser). And even if by some miracle he does want to lay down boundaries with his mum, i can't see her just accepting it. Now that we are increasing time together, she is messaging him even more frequently about inane crap. We were in bed recently, about to get intimate, it was 11pm, and she started messaging him with regular live updates about some lad (stranger) who was getting arrested for weed on their street. We live in a city so arrests for weed happen every 5 mins - not a big deal at all. But it totally killed the mood for me. He would have been home the next morning and she could have told him then.

I've also just heard from him another comment that weirded me out. He has been worrying about expenses with his new place and asked her what options he had to make more money, and her only response was - "Become a male escort." It shocked him which is why he told me, but he brushed it off as tongue in cheek. And I just thought, well, you have a gf so a bit rude to me, and a parent suggesting prostitution to a child even as a joke just feels ick.

Will have a break up chat tonight as sad as it makes me. Unless we moved to another country, I can't see how she wouldn't stay super involved in our lives. Thanks again for all the responses.

Also someone suggested the book, 'The little house' by Phillipa Gregory. I started reading it, and it's very good, chilling but good.

that is creepy AF. Also the bloke with the weed is a classic attention thing... mil does this at various intervals about diff things

for you OP
Not too sure how good the wording is this Web page is but I found this diagram / concept (it's quite popular) very helpful when dating.

By breaking up with him you are actually moving closer to having a healthy happy relationship...

waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html