To find this effing unbelieveable **MNHQ adding content warning for CSA**

[Imnotafemistbut]

A man has raped a child and walks free from court as the judge appears to blame the child.

courtnewsuk.co.uk/rapist-walks-free-after-judge-says-12-year-old-was-sexualised/

I agree with all of this. Where the fuck were her parents?

Whoops lost quote, was responding to @SamphiretheStickerist

@Cubit

I think it sets a worrying precedent, the onus was on him to confirm she wasn't a child - he didn't.

Reasonably, how far do you go in confirming someone is legally able to consent?

I have NEVER sought to confirm this with anyone I have slept with, ever. It has always appeared obvious, they work, they have their own place, perhaps drive (not always). I'd be very surprised if anyone on here has actively sought to confirm that beyond observing what appears to be the case.

If you find someone on an adult dating app, if they look old enough, sound old enough and appear to have their own home and vehicle, reasonably what more are you meant to do? Ask for verified copies of birth certificate (easy to fake if you wanted to, not everyone has one to hand anyway), ask for a passport (again not everyone has one).

I certainly looked old enough at 12, I had DD cup boobs, could hold not just a conversation but debate issues and hold my own opinion with an adult at that age (that got me in a LOT of trouble with teachers). I was certainly more mature and worldly-wise than many 19 year olds!

@LondonQueen

I just don't understand how this girl had a house and a car at 12, with seemingly no guardian? I do agree the ruling was fair though.

No, he believed her to have one. Photos of hee parents house, photos In Dad's car etc. They met somewhere else but even so, house where parents are out for large chunks of the day...

@Cubit
I think it sets a worrying precedent, the onus was on him to confirm she wasn't a child - he didn't. how exactly does one do this? Resume to have sex until you've met her parents? I mean it would solve a lot of issues but imagine going on a tinder date in your late teens and having the man say "can I meet your parents to check your age?"

We haven’t seen their text or tinder messages but the judge has. Presumably they will have checked whether he has accessed her social media and what’s on there. There’s obviously nothing on there where she has referenced being under age or obviously revealing she’s under age eg pics in school uniform as judge has accepted he reasonably believed she was 16.
I’d doubt anyone asks a tinder date for ID and if they do no guarantee not a fake.

No, he believed her to have one. Photos of hee parents house, photos In Dad's car etc. They met somewhere else but even so, house where parents are out for large chunks of the day...

Where is this information coming from?

We don’t know what he has done or not done to confirm her age. He could have asked her age and she’s lied she’s 16, got her to confirm she was 16 in writing, taken a photocopy of her fake ID. He’d still been guilty of rape because she’s 12.

@Nanny0gg - she wasn't living in a car.

He was.

The judge said 'Mascall was living in a car at the time of the offences, having been kicked out of the family home... You were 19 and just at that time were sofa surfing. You come from a supportive and close family but at that time your relatively straight religious parents had turned you out because they perceived you had been acting wrong-headed. They thought you were living with a friend but you were sofa surfing and living in a car.'

I have no idea where they met. Presumably not at her home if they had sex in the car park at Westfields?

I think they are both victims of dating apps that don't verify the users age. I feel sorry for both of them. The girl is obviously very vulnerable and clearly hasn't had a good life and needs help, and the young mans life is also ruined as he will be on the sex offenders register.

Without seeing the girl none of us knows how old she looked. Some 12 years olds could pass as 16 with the right clothes and makeup.

www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/man-20-avoids-jail-after-22858874.amp

Some more info on here. She was 20 on her tinder profile with a place and car. They had corresponded for 2 months before meeting in May. Sex in car park and railway stations.
Her mother found them after 2 days together.

Tinder is all about quick shags with no committment, so very difficult to verify age. The fact she was on Tinder would make it reasonable to assume she was over the age of consent. I'm sure they don't allow 12 year olds. Sad all round.

The young person living in a car, having been abandoned by her family.
She was vulnerable and one wonders how she was allowed to be in this situation and roam as she pleased without any supervision or checks on her welfare.

He met her on Tinder when he was 19 and it was deemed reasonable to assume she was an adult as she was living by herself and looked much older.

He spent time in prison on remand but he was deemed to be gullible and naive rather than predatory. A very odd case.

If he genuinely believed the girl was 16 and he didn't force her to have sex then I don't see how it can be classed as rape. Who asks for proof of age before before sleeping with someone.

Unfortunately it’s how the law works but it’s so wrong.
Yes she’s only young but she’s lied and ruined his life. She could have easily done this to other young men too. She went on tinder looking for men to have sex with, lied about her age and yet it’s him that is going to have to suffer for the rest of his life.

He not only has to live with the fact he’s had sex with a 12 year old but he’s going to have his life ruined.

I just hope she learns from this and her parents get extra help from SS.

Are 16 year old girls generally out there looking for sex on Tinder? Surely that would be a red flag for that bloke in itself?

@WonderfulYou

If he genuinely believed the girl was 16 and he didn't force her to have sex then I don't see how it can be classed as rape. Who asks for proof of age before before sleeping with someone.

Unfortunately it’s how the law works but it’s so wrong.
Yes she’s only young but she’s lied and ruined his life. She could have easily done this to other young men too. She went on tinder looking for men to have sex with, lied about her age and yet it’s him that is going to have to suffer for the rest of his life.

He not only has to live with the fact he’s had sex with a 12 year old but he’s going to have his life ruined.

I just hope she learns from this and her parents get extra help from SS.

Yes, I agree. I feel sorry for them both, but slightly more for the young man.

Yes, I agree. I feel sorry for them both, but slightly more for the young man.

A 12 year old girl has been raped but you feel more sorry for the man.

Here's an idea for starters: Don't go trawling Tinder for 16 year old girls to have sex with, then you might not end up with someone who turns out to be fucking twelve.

@WonderfulYou Are you serious?
You are accusing a 12 year old girl of ruining a rapist’s life?
He is the one who was breaking the law.
Take your victim shaming elsewhere.

[quote SleepingStandingUp]@Cubit
I think it sets a worrying precedent, the onus was on him to confirm she wasn't a child - he didn't. how exactly does one do this? Resume to have sex until you've met her parents? I mean it would solve a lot of issues but imagine going on a tinder date in your late teens and having the man say "can I meet your parents to check your age?"[/quote]
Maybe it's not so common then, Tinder wasn't around when I was a teen but my now ex did ask to see my driving licence because I look a lot younger than I am, and being 18 at the time, I could have passed for being under 16.

It was him not her living in a car/friends sofa.
Nothing about her living set up but she was away from parents for a day in April when she travelled to see him in Luton for first time and again for 2 or 3 days in May in London when offences occurred.
It’s a very unusual case as she’s kept up over 16 pretence for months and multiple meet ups.

It's also worrying as from experience, there are abusers who would be phenomenal at acting like they genuinely had no idea someone was underage. Maybe this man is being honest, but I'm concerned it'll embolden those who would do it on purpose too.

The man, who cannot be named for legal reasons

Oops! At least 2 links in this thread contan his name!

Take your victim shaming elsewhere.

I do think it possible to understand that both of them are victims in this. Everyone, prosecution and judge included, seem to have felt that this could be the case for this specific case - and they had all of the information to hand.

She was 20 on tinder. I assume tinder take your word for it no need to provide ID? (Never used tinder) He was 19 and matched by tinder with her. Judge was satisfied he wasn’t searching for underage - presumably they checked his tinder searches - do you put an age range in?

@inheritancetrack

Tinder is all about quick shags with no committment, so very difficult to verify age. The fact she was on Tinder would make it reasonable to assume she was over the age of consent. I'm sure they don't allow 12 year olds. Sad all round.

I think you could argue that problems like this are going to be inevitable as long as we have socially acceptable casual sex. That's not to say it should be common or we should just accept it, but there will be times that people in casual encounters make errors like this because they don't have all the information.

If we really didn't want this ever to happen we'd be better off to stress to people that it's actually important to get to know them in a more significant way before shagging. Not just parents, I suspect this boy's parents did, but on a society wide basis.