To find this effing unbelieveable **MNHQ adding content warning for CSA**

[Imnotafemistbut]

A man has raped a child and walks free from court as the judge appears to blame the child.

courtnewsuk.co.uk/rapist-walks-free-after-judge-says-12-year-old-was-sexualised/

@Porcupineintherough

Buying cigarettes is one thing, you just need to look older. But I've never met a 12 year old that could pass as an adult for any length of time in person. And I know a lot of 12 year olds.

Have you met any 12 year olds who made an effort to look 18?

My eldest DD has some girls in her year (just turned 13) and some of them could pass as 17-18 easily. Especially when they're 'done up' at the weekend and at their parties

@HaveringWavering

Er *@MNHQ* I just clicked on this thinking that CSA meant Child Support Agency.

Why would they use a trigger warning for csa meaning child support agency? which no longer exist btw

@aristotlesdeathray sure but the moment they open their mouths it's a complete give away. I'm presuming these two talked in between the sex if they were together 2 days.

@Porcupineintherough

Buying cigarettes is one thing, you just need to look older. But I've never met a 12 year old that could pass as an adult for any length of time in person. And I know a lot of 12 year olds.

It's different if you know they're 12 though, they'll never fool you.

This person was largely unknown to this man other than online interactions.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@aristotlesdeathray sure but the moment they open their mouths it's a complete give away. I'm presuming these two talked in between the sex if they were together 2 days.[/quote]
In your experience

If this girl has been sexualised and having to sort herself out she will most likely appear and sound more 'mature' as she will have gone through things most 12 year olds won't have had to.

@HaveringWavering

Er *@MNHQ* I just clicked on this thinking that CSA meant Child Support Agency.

You thought there was a trigger warning for Child support agency?

Do typical 12 year olds living in supportive loving homes come across as mature as 16 year olds? No. Although my niece was 11 when I got married and in her bridesmaid dress, make up and fancy hair she'd easily pass physically.

But this child isn't a typical girl fro ma loving home. There's no mention of her situation but she's posing on Tinder pretending to be 16+ and inviting men to come to visit her for sex. There's a hell of a lot of back story that will make her act and sound older.

I think the judges sentencing is probably fair. He didn't groom her. He didn't go in Tinder looking for sex with a child. Her actions gave the impression that she was older. He hasn't been found innocent, but she's accepted that this wasn't rape with intent to rape.

I only hope that the help given to him is reflected in this poor girl getting some intervention and supoort

I can believe this. My friends and I definitely looked around 16-17 when we were 12-13. We had all had sex and would always be chatted up in london by guys who were 16-22. We used to find it really fun driving around with these older boys smoking and drinking, I guess it made us feel older and we were looking for attention. We would lie about our ages to get free lifts often in return for sexual favours. My friends mum was a single mum working really long hours so we often had the flat to ourselves and would invite guys around to drink/smoke with us. It’s so sad thinking back to how we used to be but I don’t think any of the guys that we did have sex with and lie about our ages to could have been to blame. We were all tall, very well developed and unfortunately thought having sex would get us free alcohol etc and make us more grown up. Hopefully the girl will receive some support from the sexual exploitation teams and social services to help her with this but I do not feel it is victim blaming. I had lots of support from social services during this time of my life and I wouldn’t have wanted any of the men I slept with to go to prison for it.

@Imnotafemistbut

I assumed that I'd be addressing adults.

You are. Being an adult does not negate trauma. Some adults were once children who were victims of CSA.

You making a snide & goady remark to a PP pointing this out makes me doubt your intentions.
Are you genuinely affected by the outcome of this case, or are you looking to stir a froth-fest?

[quote Porcupineintherough]@aristotlesdeathray sure but the moment they open their mouths it's a complete give away. I'm presuming these two talked in between the sex if they were together 2 days.[/quote]
Not always. All 12 year old girls are not the same.

@Porcupineintherough

Buying cigarettes is one thing, you just need to look older. But I've never met a 12 year old that could pass as an adult for any length of time in person. And I know a lot of 12 year olds.

Do any of those 12 year olds have full access to a car they are passing off as their own?

@emuloc no they are not. How many 12 year olds with the conversational abilities of an adult do you know?

At first I thought this was victim blaming shite, like people come out with when they read Lolita, but having read the article it appears the Judge accepted that he genuinely did not realise her age. It says she had her own car and place to live and presented herself as an adult on the dating app.
The Judge also acknowledges this girl is vulnerable. But her judgement was based on her believing he did not realise her age.
She was almost 13 and some girls that age do look like adults. She is obviously a troubled child, but this does not appear to be a case of an older man knowingly taking advantage of a child.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@emuloc no they are not. How many 12 year olds with the conversational abilities of an adult do you know?[/quote]
You think many 16-18 year olds have the conversational ability of adults? Heck I know many men in their 30s who if you heard them speak you'd be sure they were 14 year old boys.

You are coming at this from a very sheltered viewpoint

Some children have to grow up fast, she sounds like one of them unfortunately

It was a female judge as well. 😩
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10438991/Student-20-repeatedly-raped-girl-12-met-Tinder-avoids-jail.html

[quote Porcupineintherough]@aristotlesdeathray sure but the moment they open their mouths it's a complete give away. I'm presuming these two talked in between the sex if they were together 2 days.[/quote]
A lot depends son the level of cognitive awareness of the 16 year old. Bear in mind that he was a child himself, albeit a criminally responsible one.

I genuinely worry about how old girls look nowadays. She was on tinder, had a house and a car (guessing her parents were out?) , bought cigarettes, so presumably convinced somebody else she was older. His interactions with her have been gone over with a fine toothed comb. And he was found not to be predatory.

It's not her fault, it's her parents fault. For a 12 yo to even be acting in this way she's been failed by those adults around her.

How on earth did a 12 year old have a car and a 'place to live'? This story is so confusing.

For all of you that are gobsmacked he couldn't tell she was 12. Get over yourselves.

Many years ago i was the sexualized 12 year old going out with a 20 year old, in fact it was the summer I turned 12, so had we stated dating a couple of weeks earlier I'd have been 11.

He didn't have a clue, why would he, I presented myself to him as older, looking back he was definitely an immature 20 year old, in fact I was the mature one out of the pair of us.

Some 12 year olds have lived 12 awful years and are used to fending for themselves from a young age. They usually present as streetwise and old beyond their years.

12 year olds with family and sexual abuse in their lives don't see themselves as 12. In fact 12 year old me hated that my biological age was so far behind my brain age.

As seems to be the case here the man I was with at 12 wasn't my first sexual experience, There were no clues for the naive 20 year old to pick up on. Hell he even met me when i was working, (he presumed I was a childminder, when in fact I was just a kid looking after my neighbours younger children)

Yes technically/legally it was all kinds of wrong, but it's not as simple or as black and white as some on here would have us believe.

Life is messy, some people's young lives are very messy.

I actually bumped into the man a few years later and on catching up he was "so you're what 25, 26 now, you married?, Got kids?" His face when I said "no 16, just finished high school". He looked like he was going to throw up, as he did the maths in his head. "I'm sorry I'm sorry" was all he could say.

He hadn't had a clue.

Seems really odd, whats a 12yo doing on tinder?
But yes I've seen a dressed up 12 yo get served alcohol at a wedding - even after the barman was told her age - as he didn't believe the uncle who told the barman not to serve her.
I do have an element of sympathy for the man.
Where did her parents/ carers think she was when she was with the man?

I do think it is possible he was fooled by her. I did similar things myself, which I am not proud of now.

I was looking for attention in all the wrong places. It was a failing on my parents behalf. This girls parents have failed her too.

@Imnotafemistbut

I assumed that I'd be addressing adults.

Yes adults who might have had something like this happen to them when a child and a post like this triggers

Hence the warning on the top, so they can pass by

@aristotlesdeathray not sheltered at all, I used to volunteer with an outreach project for sex workers, many of whom were teens. Yes in some ways they come across as older than their years but mostly they came across as damaged and traumatised children. Their experience made them more vulnerable, not less, and it showed in all sorts of ways. Not one that I ever met could pass as an adult to anybody taking more than the most superficial interest in them. Not that their clients ever did of course.

What worries me even more is that the social care system in this country is so broken that a 12 year old, kicked out of her home, is living in a car. That poor kid, I hate to think how much she has been abused. I hope she is being looked after well now but I don't feel that confident of that.