Page 5 | To find this effing unbelieveable **MNHQ adding content warning for CSA**

Imnotafemistbut · 2022-01-25T13:12:05+00:00

A man has raped a child and walks free from court as the judge appears to blame the child. [[https://courtnewsuk.co.uk/rapist-walks-free-after-judge-says-12-year-old-was-sexualised/]]

2bazookas · 25/01/2022 15:46

@Lockheart

This is obviously a very complex and unusual case, and I'm not sure your post or the preview of the article is a reliable summation of the court proceedings. Do you have the judges remarks?

the woman judge is quoted extensively in this report

Wreath21 · 25/01/2022 15:47

ISTR part of the issues regarding the children in Rochdale was not so much that they were believed to be 'consenting', but that they were regarded as uncontrollable, dishonest troublemakers and their complaints were ignored. (Those cases were further complicated by racist mischief-making, as well - unfounded allegations that evil progressives wouldn't investigate because they thought it was racist to do so, etc.)

SoLongDarla · 25/01/2022 15:47

@Imnotafemistbut

I assumed that I'd be addressing adults.

Ironic, given the subject matter. A male who went on an adults dating site, and assumed he was addressing other adults.

SleepingStandingUp · 25/01/2022 15:48

@longwayoff

Useless judge. Wonder what's on his laptop.

Her laptop. Understanding that adult goes onto adult dating site, meets someone who says she's an adult, meets someone who acts and looks like an adult, and has sex with someone who did all those things isn't a predator looking to abuse young girls doesn't make HER a paedophile.

boringcreation · 25/01/2022 15:49

[quote aristotlesdeathray]@ABCeasyasdohrayme

She made it very convincing that she was an adult

If you bother to actually look into this case the ruling was correct

He admitted fault, has already served 7 months and has been convicted and sentenced a appropriately [/quote]
I feel the same tbh. That poor girl needs so much help, someone has made this normal to her and that is not ok, but the context of what happened between her and this man needs to be dealt with separately.

boringcreation · 25/01/2022 15:51

@Porcupineintherough

Buying cigarettes is one thing, you just need to look older. But I've never met a 12 year old that could pass as an adult for any length of time in person. And I know a lot of 12 year olds.

Yes but she seems to be an outlier. If I had to guess I'd say she has had a horrible childhood, if any at all and had to grown up much faster than others. The poor girl.

SleepingStandingUp · 25/01/2022 15:53

@Puzzledandpissedoff

The people who have interviewed the man are all agreed that he is very immature for his age

Hence no doubt the 48 "maturity sessions" which have reportedly been arranged

Two things occur to me ... firstly what the chances are of him actually attending them, and secondly what message he'll take away from all this, beyond believing that all he has to do in future is swear "I thought she was 16"

Immature of not, I think most 19 year olds would be horrified to raise they'd had sex with a kid. What mates have hung around after 7 months incarceration will likely never let him live it down and his face and name are now known. He's not going to be forgetting this in a hurry and there's no suggestion from anything they've found that he wants to have sex with young girls as opposed to women his own age.

SoLongDarla · 25/01/2022 15:57

What a complex, incredibly sad story.

Struggling to know what to make of it to be honest. Actually feeling quite sorry for all involved.

That poor girl, I'm sure this has all been very traumatic for her. But I don't believe she's being victim shamed in this ruling, I'm not sure that's what's happening with the use of the phrase "sexualised". I knew plenty of girls aged 12-13 having sex with 18-20 year olds when I was growing up. All could have passed for 16-18, and regularly did, to get into pubs and clubs. I was about 14/15 before I would have gotten into these places. Cant help but wonder if online dating apps had been around, would we have been on them at that age, similar to going to clubs underage.

To those who think it's impossible to believe a 12 year old could pass as an adult, I think that's being very naive.

In regards to the man, I do actually feel quite sorry for him too. He has raped an underage girl. No doubts about it, and he has admitted to it. But to have done so "accidentally" will leave a lot trauma. He did do time in custody as he was not bailed. He has been charged, this will stay with him forever and he is being punished for it. I do not think he can be classed in the same category as monsters who deliberately do this.

I think the judge had a tough job on this one, I'd say it took a lot of deliberating over.

AndTime · 25/01/2022 16:01

@CaptainCabinets

I don’t think it’s very fair to call him a child rapist as that would imply intent. If he genuinely had reason to believe she was over sixteen, and it sounds like that would be an easy conclusion to draw, then I suspect he was very immature for his age if he believed her to be of a similar age. I don’t think he’s a rapist who deserves a jail term tbh. The girl went looking for sex, he didn’t coerce her. I was around the same age when I lost my virginity and I certainly wasn’t forced into it either.

Call me a rape apologist if you like, but there are genuine predators out there walking free, I think this lad has learnt a very painful lesson which will follow him for life.

I agree with this. I feel sorry for both involved in this story. I was abused as a child by someone who did it on purpose knowing my age, this teenager shouldn't be tarred with that brush!

Dixiechickonhols · 25/01/2022 16:01

It must be rare for almost 13 yr old to pass as 16 but not unheard of. In the Scottish case I linked it was accepted that the 12 year old passed for 16 plus. She’d been spoken to that evening by police looking for a missing girl who thought she was old enough to be out with her pal drinking vodka late at night - not a child, the taxi driver thought she was 20, judge reviewing cctv accepted she looked older, people at house party were fine she was there. Unusual but not impossible.

Nanny0gg · 25/01/2022 16:05

@Imnotafemistbut

I assumed that I'd be addressing adults.

What's that supposed to mean? You do realise that this could have happened to someone on here, don't you?

And if you read the article, you realise that the judge acknowledged that the child was vulnerable so not at 'fault' but that the man genuinely thought she was over 16.

What the article doesn't say is what has subsequently happened to her as she was thrown out of home by her parents. Hopefully she is now being cared for.

sillysmiles · 25/01/2022 16:20

Even if he thought she was 16. He's 20. At 20 a 16 yr old is much younger - generally still in school, not sat state exams yet. 20 - finished school, working or in trade or in 3rd level education.

So how did he not cop a 12 year old?

WonderfulYou · 25/01/2022 16:20

I agree with this. I feel sorry for both involved in this story.

I agree.
She obviously has a lot of issues and needs help but he will know live life known as a peado and rapist when he didn’t do anything wrong intentionally.

WonderfulYou · 25/01/2022 16:23

Even if he thought she was 16. He's 20. At 20 a 16 yr old is much younger - generally still in school, not sat state exams yet. 20 - finished school, working or in trade or in 3rd level education

Half of 16 years would have left school by that age and she could be a couple of days off being 17 whilst he could be a couple days of being 20 so there’s only a couple of years difference - most people are with someone a couple of years above or below themselves.

I think this case should make it harder for under 16s to join dating sites.

Omicrone · 25/01/2022 16:27

Yeah it's not just about how well 'developed' (FFS) physically you are. You wouldn't have to spend that long around a 12 year old girl to know she wasn't an adult.

Omicrone · 25/01/2022 16:28

Jesus, nice victim blaming there
@WonderfulYou yuk.....

emuloc · 25/01/2022 16:29

@sillysmiles

Even if he thought she was 16. He's 20. At 20 a 16 yr old is much younger - generally still in school, not sat state exams yet. 20 - finished school, working or in trade or in 3rd level education.

So how did he not cop a 12 year old?

Have you read the whole thread? Several posters have already provided an answer to that question.

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 25/01/2022 16:30

I can only go on what the Daily Mail says, but I can't see what he did that was wrong. He thought she was 16. The judge obviously believed him.

Omicrone · 25/01/2022 16:30

Why has the world suddenly turned so thick, and all our human recognition skills have suddenly just switched off?

Apparently it's impossible to tell who are men and who are women, and now it's Apparently impossible to tell who are 12 year old children and who are adults?

whiteworldgettingwhiter · 25/01/2022 16:31

So the judge said: 'What I do know is that you were described by the first probation officer as presenting as immature even for your young age' to the rapist - yet she said that the victim was 'sexually suggestive'.

Lots about the rapist's 'supportive family'; nothing about the poor girl's family.

I wonder why. She has been let down.

Ridiculous victim blaming.

whiteworldgettingwhiter · 25/01/2022 16:32

Are you seriously saying you can't tell the difference between a 12yo girl and an adult woman, @ILoveAllRainbowsx?

Whattothink65 · 25/01/2022 16:33

It's awful but also sounds fair - it is exceptional. He genuinely seemed to believe she was older. Unfortunately this shows why apps and over 16 / 18 platforms need age verification.

Whattothink65 · 25/01/2022 16:36

@Dixiechickonhols

It must be rare for almost 13 yr old to pass as 16 but not unheard of. In the Scottish case I linked it was accepted that the 12 year old passed for 16 plus. She’d been spoken to that evening by police looking for a missing girl who thought she was old enough to be out with her pal drinking vodka late at night - not a child, the taxi driver thought she was 20, judge reviewing cctv accepted she looked older, people at house party were fine she was there. Unusual but not impossible.

DH is a teacher and honestly, those kids look older than I do. It's shocking.

I tend to find a lot of the kids at 12/13 who look 18 tend to be used to hanging around with older kids and it is a big effort to appear older.

I get told I look under 16 all the time, this isn't because I'm shockingly youthful or anything, but I just have that type of face and don't wear much makeup. 12/13 year olds are extraordinary at make up.

Cubit · 25/01/2022 16:38

I think it sets a worrying precedent, the onus was on him to confirm she wasn't a child - he didn't.

SleepingStandingUp · 25/01/2022 16:39

@sillysmiles

Even if he thought she was 16. He's 20. At 20 a 16 yr old is much younger - generally still in school, not sat state exams yet. 20 - finished school, working or in trade or in 3rd level education.

So how did he not cop a 12 year old?

Immature 19 year old who wasn't at that point at uni and no indication if he was working. He was sleeping in his car though. Person who says she's 16+, it's on an adult dating website that isn't, AFAIK, known as a paedophile haven, dresses like a 16+, acts in a sexually mature way, who may be more sexually experienced than him, who has photos of her car and own place. 19 year old who's been quite babies, it's markedly immature for his age vs a 12 year old who's likely been groomed previously, who actively sought sex on an adult platform, and who knows how to pass for older. It isn't that unbelievable in the real world.

Tragically sad and I hope the victim, this young girl, is given the help and support she needs to process this and move forward