Being automatically referred to as 'Mrs' on the basis of .. what?!

[Tailsyflugbun]

To expect a telephone receptionist to not assume I am married?!

@megletthesecond

I always get this from car dealers and tradesmen.

I don't think they can compute that middle aged lone parents can do things themselves and I must have a husband hidden somewhere.

I work in a dealership and ask every single time First initial, surname and title. You can be princess/Mrs/lady/whatever you want on the choices

Men just get Mr That works for them

Yes and if we'd always only had Ms, that would work for us too. But that's not how it is. Lots of women are Mrs and like being called Mrs.

@crazyjinglist

No I really don't think it's hilarious, I am dismayed that people assume that I must have a male owner. It's 2022, it's not "discourteous" to not assume that a woman you're speaking to must be married.

It is bloody discourteous to imply that if a woman is marriedthat means she has a 'male owner'. You don't like people making assumptions about you, but you seem to happily make fairly offensive ones about other people's relationships.

Well that is exactly my point, thank you for agreeing with me.

I am not making assumptions about anyone's relationship and I am not saying that a married woman has a male owner. Feel free to re-read what I actually wrote, which was that someone else is making that assumption. Not me.

People who think "oh hang on, I had better not offend this woman by suggesting she can't get herself a man" are the ones assuming that women ought to have a male owner (because you can bet your bottom dollar they're not thinking, "hmm maybe she's married to a woman so I'd better call her Mrs",).

The person on the phone thought it was less offensive to mistake an unmarried woman for a married one, than the other way round. Someone who thinks that being an unmarried woman is something to be ashamed of isn't thinking that marriage is a partnership of equals, are they?

@KimmyKimdoo

Actually I really don’t think it’s ok to start with “hello is that Kimmy Kimdoo speaking?” - I think the default should be Mrs Kimdoo for strangers.

Perhaps if we all adopted Mrs as a title just for adult women and not for married women only then the problem would be solved, just like in other European countries as mentioned. I know some people think Ms is ideal but it is awkward because it sounds so much like Miss, especially on the telephone.

No, it shouldn't be the default. We do not live in a society where Mrs is the default for adult women and many of us dislike being addressed in that manner. It isn't ok to assume that's appropriate.

I was just thinking that the default seems to have changed to Ms these days.

I was just thinking that the default seems to have changed to Ms these days.

I work at several schools, and almost all of my female colleagues are Miss or Mrs, very few Ms.

I don’t want to be a Mrs because I’m not married, don’t aspire to being married and wouldn’t want it to become the default as it would have clearly those connotations for me due to its history. That’s my reasoning and I realise from being on this thread that I feel quite strongly about it! For those who prefer it, what is the appeal of Mrs? I hope this doesn’t come across as a goady question, because I’m genuinely interested. I’ve always assumed Ms was neutral, but obviously I was wrong.

@WondrousAcorn it’s a lot easier and clearer to say / hear than Ms for starters. I mean, is it Mzzzz, Muzz, Mizz, Mz? I don’t really know and it sounds just like Miss when said quickly with the rest of the name. I just prefer the clarity of Mrs. I really can’t stand Miss for adult females and don’t want to be referred to as Miss as all.

[quote KimmyKimdoo]@WondrousAcorn it’s a lot easier and clearer to say / hear than Ms for starters. I mean, is it Mzzzz, Muzz, Mizz, Mz? I don’t really know and it sounds just like Miss when said quickly with the rest of the name. I just prefer the clarity of Mrs. I really can’t stand Miss for adult females and don’t want to be referred to as Miss as all.[/quote]
Ms doesn’t sound like miss, unless you also think kiss and Liz sound alike

Can I also add that the one lady at work I know who uses Ms pronounces it with a soft S… so Miss to anyone hearing her say it. She writes it as Ms though. Obviously her choice but not very clear!

@sammylady37 do you mean kiss and kiss? They do sound alike to me. Not the same but much more alike than Mrs and Miss.

Kiss and kiz *

Mrs Miss Ms are all abbreviations of the same word, 'Mistress', which as been used since the 16th cent - maybe before - as a title of RESPECT for a woman.

It's not sexist ast all.

It is, though, because men just have Mr, regardless of their marital status, and while each of Miss, Mrs and Ms are all derived from Mistress, whichever is your preference, as this and the 5337994 other frequent threads on the matter prove, whichever you choose, someone is going to judge you and make assumptions about you and your marital status. Men simply don't get that with Mr.

I suspect if I tried to persuade everyone to address me as Mistress Bearhug, that would get people making a few assumptions, too.

[quote KimmyKimdoo]@sammylady37 do you mean kiss and kiss? They do sound alike to me. Not the same but much more alike than Mrs and Miss.[/quote]
No, I meant what I typed, kiss and Liz.

Mrs and Ms don’t sound alike to me. For starters, they don’t even have the same number of syllables. How they can be mistaken for each other is beyond me.

@KimmyKimdoo

Kiss and kiz *

Hopefully you don't have any friends called Liz or Zoe or Zara.

@sammylady37 eh?? I agree that Mrs and Ms don’t sound alike because of the syllables. That was my point. I’m confused by your examples because they obviously don’t sound alike.. they start with different letters unlike Ms and Miss.

@AffIt No idea why you’re suggesting Zoe and Zara sound alike when they have different letters and vowel sounds. How is that remotely similar to Miss and Ms sounding the alike? Strange.

I make lots of calls to people for work and it's a really tricky one. So people will be upset if I say Mrs, others if I say Ms, and others if i use first name surname.

We do our best to take peoples information as it is given to us so we are calling people what they have told us, but I am always slightly conscious of getting it wrong.

I do think it would be better if their was a standard version (like Men have in Mr) because it would take this away.

But if we just keep ignoring it, this every day sexism will go on and on, and women will never achieve equality?

Funny how no-one ever worries about how similar mister and master sound.

What a bizarre and endless list of excuses we seem to be capable of creating to keep ourselves in submission.

I give them short fucking shrift. Ask them if they know my marital status? No, then don't expect us to know yours. Our field for recording that information only has ms and mr. No patience for this. They get nowhere. I have lost my tiny mind over data breaches though. We have enough on our minds without pandering to the concerns of people wanting the postman to know theyre married.

Genuinely doesn't bother me at all

@AnnieLobeseder I think master is rarely used these days, apart from at the bank perhaps. Also the vowel is different so it is noticeable at least. Miss and Ms can sound really similar.

I do agree though that just one universal women’s title would be brilliant. I just don’t like Ms as the option.

Perhaps We can all be Ma’am 😂

I'm also willing to bet actual money that if men's titles changed on marriage, the 'polite default' option for men would absolutely be the unmarried version.

I'm a medical secretary and I always use Ms unless otherwise specified. Some women have gotten miffed about this though, but I think it's the most neutral.

Irritates me too when I get called Mrs Shamoo. That’s my mum. Only happened once I hit a certain age and clearly had to be married (and taken Mrs as my title) or would otherwise have shrivelled up and died through the lack of a man. Generally don’t say anything, but sometimes do correct them or say Mrs Shamoo is my mum.

Spent a while on the phone this week to somebody who insisted on calling me Sir. I pointed out I was a woman after the fourth time, as the system in front of them must be able to tell them. That was annoying 😂