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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What can realistically be done with violent kids in classroom?

403 replies

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:06

Since Reception one boy has been a problem in the classroom. Aggressive, swearing, tears down the displays, rips up children's work, throws chairs, uses the f and c word at the teacher and screams throughout class.

Instead of regaling me with nice tales of crayoning or writing, my youngest instead reported that various male teachers from around the school frequently have to be called to the classroom to restrain this child. Hearing a 4 year old talk about such things was a shock, but it became our day to day reality. The boy is violent to classmates and I told her to keep as far away as she could, to stay with a teacher if necessary, as he 'looks up girls skirts' and tears out their hair.

He has been known to gleefully kill insects in front of the other children, which left my child utterly distraught at the time. One was a butterfly.

A few years pass. The kid remains problematic and class projects and plans are cancelled due to him. The entire playground needs to be split up especially to 'keep him away' from starting fights with other boys.

Pandemic hits, homeworking, I slowly forget The Kid. She goes back, and I am reminded of The Kid. The displays are torn down again. More chairs thrown. I see the child arriving at school. He's obviously much larger. Male teachers are still brought in to control him. He is often removed from the room and taught elsewhere, meaning no teaching assistant cover for the class.

Today a science fair type treat for the children was ruined because instead of building their experiments and displaying their models, the boy went around the room and tore everyone's work to shreds, and again had to be restrained and removed by male teachers. I reiterate that only because it must be his size, or an indicator as to the level of his aggression, that they call the blokes in.

Back in the days that school trips existed, her class never went. They were supposed to get 'a treat' last year which got cancelled after The Kid smashed a newly refurbished bathroom up, tearing up tiles and plaster.

What can realistically be done? There's been years of this now, and my child sounds so bloody upset and defeated. School is miserable. Class is just a battle between keeping the kids safe from this boy. They're watching adults struggling with a raging boy instead of learning. She's worn down by the most shocking, vile language. She's afraid of the chair-throwing and table upending. And when he's 11 it's going to be a lot worse.

I don't know what can realistically be done. At some point the school should surely admit they cannot cope. But they might not. And in that sense maybe I can ask my kid be moved to another class. But that doesn't help the 28 kids left behind.

There's no spaces at other schools. Very long waiting lists. Can't g o private.

OP posts:
PonyPatter44 · 21/01/2022 17:10

The school are letting 'The Kid' and indeed all the other children down really badly. The Kid needs professional help and a more supportive school environment, ideally a specialist EBD setting.

The other children need to be able to learn without having this child ruin everything for them. What does the school say when you complain?

youreaconman · 21/01/2022 17:12

It’s a terrible situation for all involved. I’ve been there as a teacher and while having every sympathy for the poor child, he is not being supported either.

Complain, complain, complain. After every evacuation and incident email your HT, governors and MP.

shouldistop · 21/01/2022 17:12

Have you spoken to the school about it?

RamsayBoltonsConscience · 21/01/2022 17:13

I'm assuming that you are not in the UK, as he would have been permanently excluded by now. If he has SEN, the school would have to say that they cannot meet his needs and the local authority would have to look at alternative settings for him.

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:15

Due to a near total lack of parents' evenings I've not had a chance to say anything, but after today I'm thinking of emailing.

She took all her materials in this morning all ready to build her project and we were all so happy for her finally having A Nice School Day - she hated homelearning, absolutely hated it - and she's come home empty handed and upset because "he ripped everyone's projects up, just went around smashing them, and they called Mr [teacher] in but he couldn't stop him so they got Mr [other teacher] teacher too and it took them both to get him out."

And I realised she never gets a Nice School Day. Last term it was coming home and saying "We can't go on the trip now, they need to use the money to fix the bathrooms up".

I feel so fucking guilty. School is such a big part of kids' lives. I should be able to give her a better life than this.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 21/01/2022 17:15

This boy should be permanently removed from school. It's bloody ridiculous.

letsghostdance · 21/01/2022 17:15

@RamsayBoltonsConscience Ooft, I wish that was enough to get a kid permanently excluded.

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:16

@RamsayBoltonsConscience

I'm assuming that you are not in the UK, as he would have been permanently excluded by now. If he has SEN, the school would have to say that they cannot meet his needs and the local authority would have to look at alternative settings for him.
I am in the UK, so I definitely do feel this has surely got to the point that he should have been excluded, for his own sake as well as everyone else's. The school could surely have started the ball rolling on the 'cannot meet his needs' thing. What of the teachers constantly having to manhandle him out? What of their lessons. They must be complaining too.
OP posts:
shouldistop · 21/01/2022 17:16

That kind of thing shouldn't be discussed at parents night anyway. Email the school and detail the impacts on your child.

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:19

@youreaconman

It’s a terrible situation for all involved. I’ve been there as a teacher and while having every sympathy for the poor child, he is not being supported either.

Complain, complain, complain. After every evacuation and incident email your HT, governors and MP.

How do I email the school politely? I mean, I know not to write anything rude, but it's such a minefield of 'being sympathetic' and stuff. It's one thing to rant online, another to actually wade in.

"DD is worried that... DD was a bit upset today, have you got a handle on things?" "What is the plan?" It's all so private and personal to that boy's family and his situation isn't it... it's not like I'd be demanding his SEN plan or anything. At the end of the day, I need to know if they can set up some system by which she can reach the end of a worksheet without it ripped up.

What's the best way of phrasing it without sounding utterly selfish? (even though I am being a bit utterly selfish)

OP posts:
Tal45 · 21/01/2022 17:19

When I was working as a TA many years ago we had a child with an attachment disorder who behaved a little like this but by the sounds of it not as bad. What got things put in place for that child was lots of parents complaining lots of times. Complain every time, if it's not handled how you would like then follow procedure, first complain to the teacher, then the Head, then the governors.

Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 17:19

The school are massively failing all the children. I say that as a parent of a child who has had a classroom evacuated. Luckily my child was predominantly a runner and only had one physical incident.

One child doesn't get to ruin the education of 30 others.

We had to go back to basics, she did an hour a day in school, 1-1 with her TA. Then 30 minutes in class and 30 minutes with her TA. Then 90 minutes in school with a 45/45 split. And built up at her pace. The entire time school and I were closely monitoring absolutely everything. Triggers. Warning signs in school. Warning signs at home. What worked, what didn't. We got there over 6 months.

School are horribly failing all to be allowing this to happen. If they have tried everything they should be ensuring they can show everything has been done correctly so that it is clear needs can not be met. Often in schools when this happens it is partly down to schools not standing firm enough with the LAs or paperwork not being quite right. Evidence is key.

They have a duty to ensure all children are SAFE.

Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 17:21

And as a PP said it is really helpful when other parents speak to the school. You can speak to the school and express your concern everytime. It helps build evidence.

IllManneredBitch · 21/01/2022 17:22

Years of Tory austerity has cut schools to the bone and they don't have tge support staff or resources they need. It's decimated mental health services for children, taken away early years support for families and pushed families into instability and poverty.

When I started teaching, we could help students. When I left a couple of years ago, it was because I couldn't keep students safe, I didn't feel safe (secondary school), the prevailing popular theories in education are that these children are so damaged (true) that accommodations must be made for them (true - but no resources for this are provided so it means do your best to keep them in a classroom with 35 other kids trying to learn), exclusion will make their lives worse (also true) and the solution is to take them off for a hot chocolate with SLT and give them free rein to do what they want. We weren't helping the children who were suffering and behaving violently and dangerously, we were holding them - at the expense of everyone else's safety and education - and when they left school in the end, it was with no preparation for the world beyond.

I left teaching, my kids are in private school, there is nothing anyone can do except not vote Tory ever again.

SituationCritical · 21/01/2022 17:22

I'm genuinely surprised he is still at school...my friend had a son with similar but MUCH less violent behaviour at school and he was permanently excluded. He now attends another school more suited to his needs and is getting on much better as I'm sure are his previous classmates.
Personally I would rather remove my child than send them with a risk of being assaulted daily. It must be an awful way to feel day in and out. I know I'd be terrified if I had to go to work with someone who would fly off the handle and attack people and property. I know you say there are waiting lists but I'd be on all every single one actively looking. Have any parents actually put in complaints to the school/governors?

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:22

@Mumofsend

The school are massively failing all the children. I say that as a parent of a child who has had a classroom evacuated. Luckily my child was predominantly a runner and only had one physical incident.

One child doesn't get to ruin the education of 30 others.

We had to go back to basics, she did an hour a day in school, 1-1 with her TA. Then 30 minutes in class and 30 minutes with her TA. Then 90 minutes in school with a 45/45 split. And built up at her pace. The entire time school and I were closely monitoring absolutely everything. Triggers. Warning signs in school. Warning signs at home. What worked, what didn't. We got there over 6 months.

School are horribly failing all to be allowing this to happen. If they have tried everything they should be ensuring they can show everything has been done correctly so that it is clear needs can not be met. Often in schools when this happens it is partly down to schools not standing firm enough with the LAs or paperwork not being quite right. Evidence is key.

They have a duty to ensure all children are SAFE.

Evacuated! God you've just reminded me. She came home in Year 1 and used that very word, I thought they'd been studying the war but she said no, they'd had to evacuate because the boy was throwing chairs and they "all had to stand outside while Mr [teacher] went in to calm him down."

It really does shock me that it keeps happening - he should be in some kind of 1-1 situation until he can cope.

OP posts:
Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 17:22

The child doesn't need exclusion and being stuck at home, he needs specialist provision

Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 17:25

@edithrea yep, it's the phrase for it. Fortunately for us it only happened once and we worked hard to make sure it never happened again. She wasn't able to be in lessons again without being very slowly built back up. Ignoring the other 29 children, for a child to reach the point that the class needs evacuating shows a massive level of distress in the child and they, for their own sake, need to be out of the classroom. It doesn't mean excluding, just learning how to meet their needs

Tal45 · 21/01/2022 17:25

DD came home upset today because she said her work and the work of other children was being destroyed by another child, she also says she is witnessing this child be physically restrained and removed by male teachers and is also finding this very distressing. I'm concerned about the impact witnessing this sort of behaviour is going to have on her mental health, can you reassure me that this is not going to be a ongoing occurrence, many thanks x

Merryoldgoat · 21/01/2022 17:25

Are you saying that after some years of this, this is the first time you’re making a complaint?!

TooBigForMyBoots · 21/01/2022 17:26

What's the best way of phrasing it without sounding utterly selfish? (even though I am being a bit utterly selfish)

You explain the impact of his behaviour and tell the school they are letting him, the other children and their staff down by not providing the child with effective support.

yellowbananasw · 21/01/2022 17:27

This is not the child's fault. Not one bit.

The school are HUGELY at fault. They should be making referrals, getting reports, putting increasing levels of support in gathering evidence (exclusions count), applying for an EHCP, pestering the LEA for greater money in the EHCP, declaring they can't meet needs and getting the poor child a placement in a SEN school who can help him thrive and not spend years being the child that every parent and child hates.

yellowbananasw · 21/01/2022 17:28

Also - parental complaints work as evidence too. They did in my child's case.

Your school is failing this child and every child in the class.

Onionpatch · 21/01/2022 17:29

Realitically there is little you can do if you cant change school. You can only hope the other child transfers to somewhere more appropriate once enough evidence is buikt up of what they need and a place is available.

More widely, you can lobby your MP to ensure the crisis in SEN is brought to their attention and the real impact the lack of professionals like educational psychologists, occupational therapisrs, behaviour support specialists etc, the lack of funds to staff and lack of funds and time to train the staff and the lack of special school places to transfer too if needed..

There arent any winners here. There is an individual being let down and a class being let down.
Very distressing for all.

Diamondsapphire · 21/01/2022 17:29

I wouldn’t have kept my child at that school.

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