What can realistically be done with violent kids in classroom?

[EdithRea]

Since Reception one boy has been a problem in the classroom. Aggressive, swearing, tears down the displays, rips up children's work, throws chairs, uses the f and c word at the teacher and screams throughout class.

Instead of regaling me with nice tales of crayoning or writing, my youngest instead reported that various male teachers from around the school frequently have to be called to the classroom to restrain this child. Hearing a 4 year old talk about such things was a shock, but it became our day to day reality. The boy is violent to classmates and I told her to keep as far away as she could, to stay with a teacher if necessary, as he 'looks up girls skirts' and tears out their hair.

He has been known to gleefully kill insects in front of the other children, which left my child utterly distraught at the time. One was a butterfly.

A few years pass. The kid remains problematic and class projects and plans are cancelled due to him. The entire playground needs to be split up especially to 'keep him away' from starting fights with other boys.

Pandemic hits, homeworking, I slowly forget The Kid. She goes back, and I am reminded of The Kid. The displays are torn down again. More chairs thrown. I see the child arriving at school. He's obviously much larger. Male teachers are still brought in to control him. He is often removed from the room and taught elsewhere, meaning no teaching assistant cover for the class.

Today a science fair type treat for the children was ruined because instead of building their experiments and displaying their models, the boy went around the room and tore everyone's work to shreds, and again had to be restrained and removed by male teachers. I reiterate that only because it must be his size, or an indicator as to the level of his aggression, that they call the blokes in.

Back in the days that school trips existed, her class never went. They were supposed to get 'a treat' last year which got cancelled after The Kid smashed a newly refurbished bathroom up, tearing up tiles and plaster.

What can realistically be done? There's been years of this now, and my child sounds so bloody upset and defeated. School is miserable. Class is just a battle between keeping the kids safe from this boy. They're watching adults struggling with a raging boy instead of learning. She's worn down by the most shocking, vile language. She's afraid of the chair-throwing and table upending. And when he's 11 it's going to be a lot worse.

I don't know what can realistically be done. At some point the school should surely admit they cannot cope. But they might not. And in that sense maybe I can ask my kid be moved to another class. But that doesn't help the 28 kids left behind.

There's no spaces at other schools. Very long waiting lists. Can't g o private.

It is not the school who are failing this boy and the other children. It's the Government and the DfE.

For years, education has been underfunded with specialist provision places becoming rarer and rarer. Children who cannot cope in a mainstream setting (and were never going to be able to cope from an early age) are being forced into schools that cannot meet their needs, no matter how hard they try, because there are no alternative spaces for them. Even when there are spaces, the child has to be shown to be coping so badly for so long in order to qualify that a huge amount of long-lasting damage has already been sustained.

It's cheaper for the Government/DfE to leave this boy struggling on in a mainstream class until he eventually disappears or is thrown from education entirely. On top of that, what's happening doesn't affect them directly so they just don't care about doing better.

@Merryoldgoat

Are you saying that after some years of this, this is the first time you’re making a complaint?!

The incidents died down in Reception and the school seemed to be taking it seriously, the playground split was in year 1 and I thought so long as he's being separated that sounds fine, most or all of year 3 was homeworking, and this is the second I'm hearing of him this term. I'd need to ask her exactly how often this occurs. Talking to her today about today's incident suggests it happens more frequently but she doesn't bother mentioning it unless it's really massive - which suggests the lower-level incidents are stuff she doesn't deem worth mentioning even though I'd consider it so.

It sounds like the child is being badly let down.
From your description it sounds as if they need at least a 1-1 (and as you haven't mentioned one I presume they don't).

You need to write to the school from the point of view of your child. e.g.

• they don't feel safe because ...
• their learning is constantly being disrupted ...

Ask what steps are being put in place to ensure the safety of your child and to protect their learning.

The other child isn't your issue, the impact they are having on your child is.

I spent 18 months fretting and considering home Ed. Then I made the decision to move 500 miles away. A fortnight before we moved The Kid broke my daughter’s arm. The CPS decided to get social services involved with the family. I’m so glad we left because the family was a fucking nightmare (hence The Kid had no hope) and it would’ve only got worse.

Kids happy at their new school.

We had a similar child in my son's class at primary school. He had a statement, but the school simply couldn't meet his needs. Pressure from the other parents seemed to help speed up the process of moving him to the specialist school he needed.

Honestly your first post is a good starting point for your email. It doesn't sound rude or judgmental. Detail the impact his behaviour is having on your daughter's life and education (I think they can guess every other child is feeling the same). I feel sorry for the poor teachers, I bet they'd give their right arms to have him moved somewhere more appropriate. Imagine going into work and dealing with that?

I feel very sad for The Kid but your school are failing him and all the other kids as a result. I think I would actually remove my child asap and find another school. You shouldn’t have to battle like this.

@Iamnotthe1 I go into lots of schools within my LA. Some complain the LA aren't interested in specialist for these kids. Reality is for these schools they aren't paperworking everything correctly and taking what the LA say at face value. Other schools within the same LA have no issues as they sort the paperwork and challenge the LA. The wider system is poor but it certainly doesn't mean school are not at fault. They shouldn't be putting the child in the classroom for a start.

It's difficult to know without knowing what the school has already tried. I'm sure they have started stuff but without cooperation from parents it can be really hard to move things forward. I'm really sorry for your DD but there must be something really wrong with this child's life for him to behave like this.

@RamsayBoltonsConscience

I'm assuming that you are not in the UK, as he would have been permanently excluded by now. If he has SEN, the school would have to say that they cannot meet his needs and the local authority would have to look at alternative settings for him.

Not in our experience. Mind you "The Kid" in our school was the son of an ex colleague and long time childhood friend of many teachers in the school. (Small village). He wasn't at the level as the child in OP's case but damn close. Spitting in some classmates lunches for example. Thankfully chair throwing and room destroying didn't occur. It was mainly hands on, violence towards classmates such as strangulation, biting or slamming kids into walls, tables and toys. Never was expelled or suspended.

OP, get complaints sent in writing. Every damn time.

Jesus what an appalling situation all round.

That boy needs severe help and I imagine from the language he uses home isn’t a particularly positive environment.

All you can do is continue to complain in relation to your daughter. Send an email to the head and the teacher and ask what happened in class? DD returned home utterly distraught after having work destroyed (again) that you had paid for and provided. She’s frightened of going into school, she doesn’t feel safe or comfortable there and it’s reached a point you don’t feel safe sending her.

Your interest is not in the child in particular but what are the school doing to safeguard YOUR child because being habitually ‘evacuated’, fearing physical violence and missing out on chunks of her day when she should be being educated is a huge safeguarding concern. If they don’t respond contact the governors.

[quote Mumofsend]@Iamnotthe1 I go into lots of schools within my LA. Some complain the LA aren't interested in specialist for these kids. Reality is for these schools they aren't paperworking everything correctly and taking what the LA say at face value. Other schools within the same LA have no issues as they sort the paperwork and challenge the LA. The wider system is poor but it certainly doesn't mean school are not at fault. They shouldn't be putting the child in the classroom for a start.[/quote]
Whilst that will be the reality for some, it's not the reality for all. I know schools who have done everything they can and still been told "Tough luck" by the authority. I know schools who have had children returned to them in mainstream after specialist provisions have said they cannot meet the level of need.

Across the country, there are loads of children who are, essentially, being taught as satelitte children, orbitting near a class but never actually part of it and even more who are forced in because the school can't provide a satelitte model. The system isn't breaking by accident: it is being intentionally broken through underfunding by people who don't give a shit about it.

When one child impacts on others to this extent it’s time for the child to be removed. Obviously whatever the school has done has not worked.
All behaviour has a reason and it’s the school’ s job via the Educational Psychologist to get to the root of the problem.
The other children are not safe and they deserve to learn in a safe environment. Chairs thrown around could easily injure a child.
I think several parents need to speak to the Head and ask for a meeting with the governors. Phrases to use are safety of children. Duty of care by the school to protect all children. The right of children to learn in a safe environment.

We have a boy with an EHCP which we applied for pretty much as soon as he joined us in Reception, although it took a year and an appeal as there was a lack of " evidence of need" . It is agreed that we cannot meet his needs in mainstream, he hits, kicks, throws, spits and screams. He was permanently excluded but the decision was overturned by the governors under " advice" from the LA representative. The Local Authority has agreed a specialist placement is needed, we have been waiting four months so far and have been told there MAY be a place in September. Mum is insistent that he remains with us until the specialist provision is available. He has two 1:1 staff full time, we fully fund one and fund most of the second. So we don't have a TA in the class as we can't afford another.
It is hell.

I can remember this happening when DD was back in primary (probably about Y4) A new boy joined the class. He threw chairs around the classroom, frequently had to be restrained by the large male headteacher and finally all the kids had to hide under tables during class to protect themselves. He was only there for half a term.

It sounds to me that your DD's school are not taking this seriously so I would raise every single incident with the head and go to the governors if nothing changes. I'd be polite but blunt. The school are failing the boy and every other child in the class.

Are you saying that in all these years you haven't said a word to school about this? What about other parents? What are they doing?

As someone who has been through similar (albeit not as extreme) over the last three years, I’d be emailing the head and asking why your child’s education is being compromised by their inability to deal with this child. School trips and events aren’t nice extras, they’re an important part of the curriculum, and your child is missing out.
First stop the Head, next governors. If you don’t see anything changing it’s over to OFSTED.
Please stop worrying about causing a fuss or being rude - your child’s education is more important than that.
Do as much in writing as possible. Follow up phone conversations with an email confirming what was discussed. Start keeping a diary of how your child’s learning and wellbeing is being affected.

@HollowTalk

Are you saying that in all these years you haven't said a word to school about this? What about other parents? What are they doing?

Addressed above. They had a better handle on the incidents in R/Y1 so I left it, year 3 at home due to Covid, now two incidents reported to me in two weeks. Upon querying today's incident she said there've been more, so I need to sit and get an idea how often this happens and how normalised it may have become.

@LadyRoughDiamond

As someone who has been through similar (albeit not as extreme) over the last three years, I’d be emailing the head and asking why your child’s education is being compromised by their inability to deal with this child. School trips and events aren’t nice extras, they’re an important part of the curriculum, and your child is missing out. First stop the Head, next governors. If you don’t see anything changing it’s over to OFSTED. Please stop worrying about causing a fuss or being rude - your child’s education is more important than that. Do as much in writing as possible. Follow up phone conversations with an email confirming what was discussed. Start keeping a diary of how your child’s learning and wellbeing is being affected.

Year 4 and she's never had a school trip. Not one. There's rarely any money, now Covid. Even my elder kids, pre-Covid, only got two trips to local museums in the entire 7 years they were there. Losing what would have been her first trip was a big blow.

Thanks for all the advice on the emailing, by the way. I've gotten it drafted and will chat with DD to try and get an idea of what happens, when, how frequently and to what intensity.

As PP^^ in your email - what is the plan for keeping your child safe, learning is being majorly disrupted due to this 'kid' school trips are part of the curriculum and surely parents pay towards these therefore the money should be ringfenced not used on damaged toilets
we have a similar although not as destructive 'child' in school many staff have been bitten/hit by said 'child' need special help but non forthcoming its shit

I’m a governor who upheld the Head’s decision to permanently excluded a young. Child shat in sinks, told a TA recently returned from treatment for breast cancer “shame the cancer didn’t kill you you fat cunt”, hit, punched and bit other children and destroyed classrooms. Even when we had funding for a 1:1 we couldn’t fill the post - the only person we appointed walked out at lunchtime on their first day.

All sorts of part time timetables were tried, none of which were particularly educational.

The amount of pressure we got from the LA, and ultimately from the independent review panel to reinstate after permanent exclusion was unreal. We upheld the exclusion and it was far and away the best thing for our school. No one cares about any of the other children.

I’m not convinced specialist provision is always better than mainstream for children like this BUT that comes with the caveat of a mainstream school having the will/skill/resources to try and meet a child’s needs and I don’t think your average school has those things, through no fault of its own most of the time. It’s such a quagmire.

Doesn’t sound like your school have really got a handle on a therapeutic approach to the child’s needs though. I agree you should feel confident to bring it up with the school as it’s obviously not going well for anyone right now.

It is incredibly difficult to permanently exclude children.
It should be incredibly difficult.
But the reality is that whilst the school is failing to deal with situations like that, they're probably trying to gather the masses of evidence required. It's shit for everyone.