What can realistically be done with violent kids in classroom?

[EdithRea]

Since Reception one boy has been a problem in the classroom. Aggressive, swearing, tears down the displays, rips up children's work, throws chairs, uses the f and c word at the teacher and screams throughout class.

Instead of regaling me with nice tales of crayoning or writing, my youngest instead reported that various male teachers from around the school frequently have to be called to the classroom to restrain this child. Hearing a 4 year old talk about such things was a shock, but it became our day to day reality. The boy is violent to classmates and I told her to keep as far away as she could, to stay with a teacher if necessary, as he 'looks up girls skirts' and tears out their hair.

He has been known to gleefully kill insects in front of the other children, which left my child utterly distraught at the time. One was a butterfly.

A few years pass. The kid remains problematic and class projects and plans are cancelled due to him. The entire playground needs to be split up especially to 'keep him away' from starting fights with other boys.

Pandemic hits, homeworking, I slowly forget The Kid. She goes back, and I am reminded of The Kid. The displays are torn down again. More chairs thrown. I see the child arriving at school. He's obviously much larger. Male teachers are still brought in to control him. He is often removed from the room and taught elsewhere, meaning no teaching assistant cover for the class.

Today a science fair type treat for the children was ruined because instead of building their experiments and displaying their models, the boy went around the room and tore everyone's work to shreds, and again had to be restrained and removed by male teachers. I reiterate that only because it must be his size, or an indicator as to the level of his aggression, that they call the blokes in.

Back in the days that school trips existed, her class never went. They were supposed to get 'a treat' last year which got cancelled after The Kid smashed a newly refurbished bathroom up, tearing up tiles and plaster.

What can realistically be done? There's been years of this now, and my child sounds so bloody upset and defeated. School is miserable. Class is just a battle between keeping the kids safe from this boy. They're watching adults struggling with a raging boy instead of learning. She's worn down by the most shocking, vile language. She's afraid of the chair-throwing and table upending. And when he's 11 it's going to be a lot worse.

I don't know what can realistically be done. At some point the school should surely admit they cannot cope. But they might not. And in that sense maybe I can ask my kid be moved to another class. But that doesn't help the 28 kids left behind.

There's no spaces at other schools. Very long waiting lists. Can't g o private.

DS had this in his class all the way through Primary. Child had SEN but quite a late diagnosis. They had to evacuate the classroom frequently when kid had a meltdown. Parents wanted a mainstream education and so that's what happened. He had internal exclusions all the time but was never permanently excluded. One of the years below DS had a much worse time with 4 kids in one year. It was an open plan school and it was chaos. HT and teachers doing their best but failed by the council really. Unwillingness to provide kids with a statement and not enough specialist places even if they were. Cuts to staffing meant there was no specialist teaching provision and no TAs to help out. Failing everyone really. Its much better in secondary TF.

I had a similar experience with my eldest at primary - he was in a class with a really disruptive child who behaved appallingly and caused so much upset. I always felt the School prioritised them over the other 29 children and while I was sympathetic as the child had a horrible home life, it was not fair. Only thing that got through to the School was when all the Parents as a group complained about the situation as they couldn't ignore all of us. So, ask the other Parents in the class to also complain and put up an united front. Think it is too easy for Schools to pass off one Parent's complaint as them being precious about their child. It did work and School put policies in place to help. Don't give up!

Had a similar situation in the school I work at. Said boy couldn't be trusted to be in a class without getting violent, biting etc so he went onto a reduced timetable and had 1-1 for 2 hours a day. It did calm him down but eventually he moved to an sen school

Been through a similar nightmare. Email in very clear and firm tone. Contact other parents. Be prepared to contact social services with serious concerns for your child's physical and mental safety. A child in ds class tried to stab another with a steel peg, he was only 11. My ds and others were also punched etc numerous times. I wish I'd got together with other parents and pushed further than the emails and phone calls. I know the schools are underfunded and understaffed (dh is a teacher) but other kids are at risk here. My ds only escape was secondary school. The other lad went to a different school. The boy had had an horrific childhood, but I refuse to accept that this meant my ds should put up with daily threats to his safety.

My strong advice after a similar situation is focus your email on your child, her feelings, the impact on her. Don’t reference the other child at all, don’t ask the school what they are going to do about that child because they’ll just tell you they can’t discuss the other child - focus on what are they going to do to keep your DD safe.

I’d go along the lines of…

“DD has come home from school today very upset about the disruption that occurred during science fair. This is just another in a long line of occurrences where I have had to comfort and support her after disruption in the class.

She is now afraid to come to school some days and I am concerned about the long-term impact this situation is having both on her education and her mental health.

I want to have a call or f2f meeting to discuss what you can do to support DD in this situation. Please let me know when would suit.”

@EdithRea

Write a very strongly worded letter....

At this stage id be including the governors and also your MP.

Detail and count indicative instances...

Do it from your daughter's perspective :

Dear X

I am completely exasperated and upset at my daughter's ongoing distress, the impact on her mental health, and her education. More importantly she now thinks this behaviour is normal, and she has to tolerate this unacceptable behavior from this distressed child.

Her education is continually disrupted by male teachers being called as X is out of control and needs to be constrained as he us smashing uo the classroom, again.

1. On x. Ocassions hers and others work has been destroyed.

1. On x occasions days out daughter was looking forward to were cancelled becuase of this child's extreme behaviour.

This has beeb ongoing for x years. I haven't writren formally previously as i thought the school, by now would have a definite plan in place for this situation.

This us completely unacceptable. As you'll realise yiu jave a duty of care to ALL yiur children.

Clearly he is a very unhappy upset child.

I can't allow his needs to disrupt my daughters education, and her wellbeing.

Please advise what you can do to remedy rhis.

This cannot be allowed to continue for the rest of her prinary education.

It is not acceptable to prioritise the needs on ONE child at the expense of 30 others education.

For those wondering why a parent would insist on mainstream, do remember the alternatives are often no school at all, with a tutor appearing an hour a week or totally unsuitable specialist schools which wont meet their needs either
Again, sen is in crisis and change needs to come from the top.

It is hugely distressing for a lot of children to witness extreme behaviour. But the idea of a complaining mob sounds quite alarming. I would only advocate for my child. I'm not the pitchfork sort.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

I’m a governor who upheld the Head’s decision to permanently excluded a young. Child shat in sinks, told a TA recently returned from treatment for breast cancer “shame the cancer didn’t kill you you fat cunt”, hit, punched and bit other children and destroyed classrooms. Even when we had funding for a 1:1 we couldn’t fill the post - the only person we appointed walked out at lunchtime on their first day.

All sorts of part time timetables were tried, none of which were particularly educational.

The amount of pressure we got from the LA, and ultimately from the independent review panel to reinstate after permanent exclusion was unreal. We upheld the exclusion and it was far and away the best thing for our school. No one cares about any of the other children.

Jesus.

I mean, though I may not have really gone into it, I do have some sympathy for the children in question. It is appalling to consider the life they have led to have resulted in who they are now, and who they're likely to remain. There are no easy answers, but "preventing harm to everyone else" has to come first.

I work in a school designed for kids who can’t be in a mainstream classroom. He sounds like someone who would get on better in somewhere alternative. However you can only be accepted if you have an EHCP and apparently these are extremely difficult to get.

The school will absolutely be trying to get him an EHCP but they have to show they’re putting measures in place and they’re not working.

I can’t see how you emailing in is going to change anything as you won’t be saying anything they don’t already know. However the not letting the whole class do things because of him is completely unfair and if it happens again then absolutely complain.

Where are the boys parents in all of this ?

There was a boy like this at ds primary, he had to spend spells out of the class kicking a football round with the caretaker & caused chaos one day when he escaped from school grounds. His mum was asked to keep him at home the day ofsted were assessing the school. He got sent to an SEN specialist secondary school.

@EdithRea It also cost us £8k (I think) because we didn’t reinstate after independent review. That’s on top of the thousands we had spent on extra support (play therapy etc), and we lost several families over the 2 years it took to permanently exclude. Each child is around £4.5k funding a year, so that one disruptive child cost the school tens of thousands.

It also drove a supremely talented head out of eduction, as the independent review panel was basically a 5 hour personal attack.

How do I email the school politely? I mean, I know not to write anything rude, but it's such a minefield of 'being sympathetic' and stuff. It's one thing to rant online, another to actually wade in.

You don't have to be sympathetic. It's not your job. Your job is to advocate for your child.

"DD is traumatized by..."
"How are you safeguarding DD and other pupils from...?"
"DD has not had access to ... bits of the curriculum because ...".
"How is the school going to ensure DD has access to the schooling she is entitled to. "

I don't mean you can't also say "I understand it is difficult and you have to balance needs. ". Just that you need to be emphasizing where they are failing DD and the other children and not let them fall into the trap of only considering The Kid. They may be grateful to have some support for taking a different approach. This can't be what any of them want.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants
I dont think you can complain the school had to spend money supporting a child that needed support. Thats literally the point of the school budget.
Complaints about the lack of support services for schools, lack of funds, slow process, impact on other people more understandable.

Wow I think you are being much too softly softly. Clearly this kid needs to be expelled and moved to a special school. What is the point of having the power to expel a child when it isn’t used against a child who is consistently violent and prevents others getting an education?

I would write to the head saying that

“I write with regard to my daughter’s education in class X. As you will be aware there is another child in that class (name) who is regularly violent to other children, and to animals in front of other children, and who destroys their schoolwork. It has now reached the stage where my child cannot be said to be receiving the education to which she is entitled. I am aware that this is a sensitive and difficult situation, but the fact is that the school is not meeting its legal obligations to the [29] other children in that class. Please can I have a written response from the school as to your intended solution to this problem. It seems to me that this child clearly requires full time 1:1 care and is not suited to mainstream schooling but that is a matter for the school. If a solution is not reached in the immediate future I regret that I have to raise this with Ofsted and the governors.” Or something like that.

Also get on the waiting list for every other school, and (if you have low income and aren’t a homeowner) do check with the private schools as to whether you might be eligible for a fully funded place / bursary. They do exist.

EHCP are also, as a previous poster notes, incredibly hard to get. It can take years, and is taking longer now because there's a huge backlog.

@PonyPatter44

The school are letting 'The Kid' and indeed all the other children down really badly. The Kid needs professional help and a more supportive school environment, ideally a specialist EBD setting.

The other children need to be able to learn without having this child ruin everything for them. What does the school say when you complain?

THIS

This is not a good school. They are failing that child, and they are failing the rest of the class too. I bet the class teachers and TAs feel failed too.

I don't mean you can't also say "I understand it is difficult and you have to balance needs. ".

@NumberTheory in my experience, this is the time not to say these things. You don’t talk about balance, you are painting a picture about how awful it is for your own child. If you show any sympathy, then that just opens the door for ‘I’m glad you understand what a difficult situation we’re in’ and then they don’t do anything.

I’m a total people pleaser and this was really hard for me, but in my opinion it has to simply be “this is the negative impact on my child, what are you going to do about it?”

And of course, throw in the magic word - what steps are you taking to safeguard my child?

YABU to call this child “problematic”. I imagine his life is problematic and causing him to behave this way. The school should be trying to understand his behaviour and support him to better cope with his emotions, not restraining him at every opportunity smh

This is so very sad to see that a child with disabilities health issues or something is getting slated by grown adults. How would you feel if this was your child 🤔

EHCPs are difficult to get, but:

1. not THAT difficult if you're organised and persistent - I have done it twice

2. this school must have STACKS of evidence to support an application

My son struggles at school and is eye opening to see how other parents have their opinion on a Chid when they don't no if the child as anything qwrong. Yes it is scary leaving them at school but a child like this behaves the same at school and home setting he or she maybe waiting too see a specialist for help . Their is many things you have to do before you even get seen by a professional and its very frustrating for the parent and child. No parent would like their child to do them things but they clearly can't cope and she be in a special school or have 1 - 1 support

I have taught kids like this. It's soul destroying. It's nearly impossible to exclude kids these days but it sounds like he needs specialist provision. Keep complaining but remember the teacher is powerless here :(