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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What can realistically be done with violent kids in classroom?

403 replies

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:06

Since Reception one boy has been a problem in the classroom. Aggressive, swearing, tears down the displays, rips up children's work, throws chairs, uses the f and c word at the teacher and screams throughout class.

Instead of regaling me with nice tales of crayoning or writing, my youngest instead reported that various male teachers from around the school frequently have to be called to the classroom to restrain this child. Hearing a 4 year old talk about such things was a shock, but it became our day to day reality. The boy is violent to classmates and I told her to keep as far away as she could, to stay with a teacher if necessary, as he 'looks up girls skirts' and tears out their hair.

He has been known to gleefully kill insects in front of the other children, which left my child utterly distraught at the time. One was a butterfly.

A few years pass. The kid remains problematic and class projects and plans are cancelled due to him. The entire playground needs to be split up especially to 'keep him away' from starting fights with other boys.

Pandemic hits, homeworking, I slowly forget The Kid. She goes back, and I am reminded of The Kid. The displays are torn down again. More chairs thrown. I see the child arriving at school. He's obviously much larger. Male teachers are still brought in to control him. He is often removed from the room and taught elsewhere, meaning no teaching assistant cover for the class.

Today a science fair type treat for the children was ruined because instead of building their experiments and displaying their models, the boy went around the room and tore everyone's work to shreds, and again had to be restrained and removed by male teachers. I reiterate that only because it must be his size, or an indicator as to the level of his aggression, that they call the blokes in.

Back in the days that school trips existed, her class never went. They were supposed to get 'a treat' last year which got cancelled after The Kid smashed a newly refurbished bathroom up, tearing up tiles and plaster.

What can realistically be done? There's been years of this now, and my child sounds so bloody upset and defeated. School is miserable. Class is just a battle between keeping the kids safe from this boy. They're watching adults struggling with a raging boy instead of learning. She's worn down by the most shocking, vile language. She's afraid of the chair-throwing and table upending. And when he's 11 it's going to be a lot worse.

I don't know what can realistically be done. At some point the school should surely admit they cannot cope. But they might not. And in that sense maybe I can ask my kid be moved to another class. But that doesn't help the 28 kids left behind.

There's no spaces at other schools. Very long waiting lists. Can't g o private.

OP posts:
Sockpile · 21/01/2022 19:10

Your priority is the safety of your child and you also want your child to be efficiently educated. Your email will provide evidence that the school isn’t able to meet the child’s needs.

Cuddlemequick · 21/01/2022 19:11
  1. Parent's choice to have their child in mainstream trumps everything
  2. Even if parent wants child in specialist, there are far, far more children who need places than there are places
  3. It is almost impossible to permanently exclude a child
BitterTits · 21/01/2022 19:11

Ok so you've exaggerated the situation in OP (and Y3 wasn't entirely in isolation). There have been two incidents this year.

But yes you do need to contact the school about the detriment to your child's education, and they do need to allocate SEND funding proportionately to get the boy support.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 21/01/2022 19:11

@spanieleyes

The school should be reporting to their LA that they can’t meet this kids needs. We’re currently going through this process with 2 year 7s.

IHeartKingThistle · 21/01/2022 19:11

I teach secondary. We get children like this in Year 7 every year. We had 3 this year. Most of the time they quite swiftly end up in specialist provision - 1 of the 3 this year has already gone and another has moved to 1:1 teaching this week. Not blaming primary schools as I don't know what their processes are, but I have no idea how these kids end up in mainstream secondary. Sometimes they have EHCPs, but not always.

Parental complaints can be really helpful to add to evidence files.

Cuddlemequick · 21/01/2022 19:12

Quickest and easiest solution is to move your own child

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 21/01/2022 19:12

@IHeartKingThistle

Yea same in my secondary. They’ve already said no to 15 applicants for next sept

spanieleyes · 21/01/2022 19:13

@OnceuponaRainbow18
We did.
The LA eventually agreed.
We are still waiting. We have been waiting 4 months, we have been told there MAY be a place in September.

MNSEN · 21/01/2022 19:14

@helterskelter3

All the people saying that the child needs specialist schools and a different provision, aren’t living in the real world. I’ve taught children like this. An EHCP isn’t a magic wand, a 121 only works in some circumstances and if they have been specially trained to provide for a child with a diagnosis. There aren’t spaces at special school readily available. No schools wants an exclusion on their books because it’s a black mark when OFSTED come. It’s all a mess. External assistance from LAs for children like this is virtually useless. That said, the school should not be letting the other children miss out on trips. The child shouldn’t go on it and should stay in school whilst the others go.
This is pretty inaccurate.

The school wouldn't exclude, they would say that they couldn't meet the child's needs which do seem so extreme that they need specialist management. There are places available at special schools, probably not for everyone who wants one but this level of need would be clearly a case for a special school.

At the moment it seems that the boy doesn't even have an EHCP or 1-2-1 support. Again, that's within the school's gift to apply for. Certainly restraint shouldn't be used with a child on a regular basis. The EHCP will contain recommendations for strategies that the 1-2-1 and other staff should be following although schools are shit at actually doing that unless interested parents are keeping them on track.

I feel very sorry for 'The Kid'. Let down by the school, presumably horribly traumatised by something which is happening in his life and with the adults around him who could intervene too keen to see him as a problem rather than as a child needing help. Awful. Sad

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 19:15

When did I say that by them doing these things is OK but they can't help it if this was your child you wouldn't just let the school nor people just dismiss them beavuse they have underlying conditions . Yes the health or our children is the 1st and that is why their is ways to go you can't just send a child to a different specialist school theirs paths you have to go down. Before you can even see a specialist you have to do courses etc you really have no clue how hard is it for the parent and child

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 19:16

And the school will have to exclude a child if they have done something dangerous . But like op said the child gets taken out of this situation has anyone been hurt before ??

IHeartKingThistle · 21/01/2022 19:16

@Liveandlove91 I know it's awful. I've worked with a lot of parents of SEN children and it's appalling how hard they have to work for provision. You're right that lots of people don't know this.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 19:19

I have been through it myself and see how hard it is get send away when your begging for help when yoir in tears becaus3 you want the help for your child and u tell you something home life isnt easy either and then people here just so nasty I really am shocked and will stand up for them children !! Makes me sick

londonrach · 21/01/2022 19:21

I've a five year old DD and all her friends being attacked daily by one child..a boy..I'm getting daily brown envelope s..what can I do

Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 19:21

@Onionpatch this is exactly the predicament we are in and fortunately my DD mainly runs when upset so doesn't have a huge impact on the others. The specialist option presented to us was a class of 8 boys with severe behavioural needs whose "schools could no longer cope with them" and my DD who is highly anxious and limited behavioural issues.

The other options were for learning difficulties, she is too capable for them.

Ultimately the less than ideal mainstream solution was the best of the three options for her.

But again, I'm lucky she isn't an issue with other children. It is just her who is getting a raw deal.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 19:23

It's people like you op that make partens of sen child feel ashamed like they shouldn't be aloud they are human and like your child need education but extra help that doesn't make them less of a human they need to learn new strategies and understand feelings etc. I bet u stand in the playground watching while this child is having a meltdown thinking to yourself omg what a terrible child that's the parents fault . This world is mean enough without parents being mean to children with special needs you should be teaching your children about these disabilities and not all children are the same !!!!

WonderfulYou · 21/01/2022 19:23

Not blaming primary schools as I don't know what their processes are, but I have no idea how these kids end up in mainstream secondary. Sometimes they have EHCPs, but not always.

Of all the children I know with EHCPs I’d say about 90% went to a mainstream primary school and either got their EHCP towards the end of primary or when they got to secondary school - I don’t know why, maybe the criteria is higher for primary ages kids. But it would save a lot of stress for everyone involved if they were given one sooner.

ConsuelaHammock · 21/01/2022 19:24

This child ( whatever his needs) should not be taught in a mainstream classroom. He is ruining the education of 30 children. Can you start a campaign with the other parents to get him removed? He sounds dangerous. If they don’t help him sort out his behaviour he will end up in a young offenders centre.

Liverbird77 · 21/01/2022 19:24

You, rightly, are only concerned about your own child.
I would be complaining loud and long.
By the way, have you looked at local private schools? Some give bursaries and/or scholarships. It's worth investigating.

inheritancetrack · 21/01/2022 19:24

@Mumofsend

The child doesn't need exclusion and being stuck at home, he needs specialist provision

Until that provision is provided he needs excluding for the safety and mental well-being of the other children. One child's needs cannot top those of the whole class.

Liverbird77 · 21/01/2022 19:25

And for those who got political upthread, the situation has been shit under the Conservative and Labour governments.
I taught for 16 years and I am so glad to have escaped.

Mumofsend · 21/01/2022 19:25

@Liveandlove91 as a parent of a child who struggles the idea or my child adversely impacting the education of others makes me feel awful. It is not at all wrong of the parents to expect a safe, positive learning environment. You can have such a child and still be hugely sympathetic towards the impact on others. I don't think your post is fair at all.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 19:26

When you see your phone ringing and dread to pick up as what has happened today 😑 don't you think parents put up with enough without you trying to force their kids out of school maybe move your child if your that bothered

MNSEN · 21/01/2022 19:29

Until that provision is provided he needs excluding for the safety and mental well-being of the other children. One child's needs cannot top those of the whole class.

No. Such an exclusion would be illegal. He needs support and the school would be expected to put in 1-2-1 support before applying for the funding through an EHCP.

They should also be saying the cannot meet his needs and hksupoorting his family in finding specialist provision. They have a legal duty to keep all of the children safe. The child should be supported correctly so that is possible.

The child is not at fault here. The school is.

ConsuelaHammock · 21/01/2022 19:29

Contact the school about reinstating school trips for the other children. This child should not be ruining every aspect of your daughters education. Can you organise an outing with the other children and their parents some weekend?
I’m really sorry your poor child has to suffer because of a child who should be educated in a specialist setting.

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