AIBU to think that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe

[Lulu1027]

Last September I suffered severe injuries as the result of a ventouse delivery that I did not consent to. I am still in recovery. Since the incident, I have sought out other women who have had similar experiences and I'm coming to the conclusion that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe. AIBU to feel this? Have any mumsnet users suffered similarly?

I ask why scans are not done if the woman is in labour? Surely a quick hand scan to determine baby's position would prevent many injuries.
I had a 4th degree tear, shoulder dystopia with hand to face presentation.
The only way that could be foretold is with a scan i presume?
I am just grateful I escaped without the need for a colostomy bag.
Another baby would never exit my vagina again and a gynecologist has written a letter to verify that.

Birth would be safer if maternity services had heaps more funding so staff weren't overstretched and there was time for the human touches that can make a huge difference to trauma.

I'm sure there are targets for clinical elements of birth, it would be good if there were targets for women coming through without feeling traumatised as well. It seems like women's experience gets lost in it all.

Let's face it, it doesn't help that mothers tend to be older, fatter and less fit than we used to be as well.

Couldn't agree more. Also agree that all childbirth is much more dangerous than we are informed of. Yes it's a natural process that women have been doing for thousands of years.... but it's not without risks and it wasn't so long ago in history that many women died during childbirth of course.

Anecdotally - I had a vaginal delivery with DS1. No instruments etc and very natural and hypnobirthing in the birthing pool. Minor tearing. Thought I'd managed to come aaay from birth with very little damage. I was wrong and still suffer to this day (he's 5.5yrs) with issues that were caused during a prolonged pushing stage.

For DS2 I researched like a woman possessed. Ended up demanding ELCS and it was 100% best decision. Bit uncomfortable for first week and mobility was lacking for about 3 weeks but I recovered brilliantly and much faster than my "textbook" birth for DS1. Not saying everyone should demand ELCS but the medical profession needs to be far more realistic and transparent about comparing the risks of CS against vaginal birth because the comparisons are always made against a very uncomplicated VB, which sadly isn't the reality for a hell of a lot of VB's.

@FinallySomeNormality "Not saying everyone should demand ELCS but the medical profession needs to be far more realistic and transparent about comparing the risks of CS against vaginal birth because the comparisons are always made against a very uncomplicated VB, which sadly isn't the reality for a hell of a lot of VB's."

This. A million times. I knew my baby was trending large and I'm a smaller person. I asked a million questions about possible complications and I was told by my doctor time and again about how "natural' vaginal birth was. Then I was induced and had an assisted delivery.

@GrendelsGrandma Very true. However, I'm in the US and supposedly had the best of the best care. Best hospital in the area (suburbs of nyc) and chief obstetrician of a top practice. I have good insurance that paid a fortune for my care. And I had to pay the doctor $5000 cash on top of the $25,000 the insurance company paid out. So funding wasn't an issue in my case.

@Nameisjustaname "I ask why scans are not done if the woman is in labour? Surely a quick hand scan to determine baby's position would prevent many injuries."

I have wondered this too. Of the scant info I received a nurse told me my injuries were so severe in part because the baby's head was cocked to one side. Surely this can't be so uncommon and they must have a way to asssess the baby's position.

@Lulu1027 - I am so sorry for what you have endured - and the many other women on this thread who have endured similar. I am 22 years on from my 4 day obstructed, non dilating labour, and resulting brutal intervention at at very late stage that left me with life changing injuries, and PTSD for which I am still having treatment.

A large, 10 day overdue OP baby, which after labouring for 3 1/2 days was in distress, meconium present upon rupture of membranes, further induced with pitocin, I had an epidural, pushed for 3 hours when fully dilated and when baby's heart rate was through the roof in distress, and the midwife repeatedly calling and begging the doctor to come and assess - he was unable to as performing an EMCS -when he eventually arrived, he performed episiotomy, and used the vacuum multiple times to pull the baby out telling me that i had to push with everything I had, too late for a section. Baby was delivered, cord round his neck, and me left with severe anterior, uterine and posterior vaginal wall prolapses and significant pudendal nerve damage.

It took months to recover physically - and that was just the episiotomy. The prolapses were something else entirely. I had IVF to conceive my second child because the damage was so severe and an elective section second time around. The recovery from that was a dream! Since then I have had multiple prolapse repair surgeries, amputation of my severely damaged elongated cervix, a hysterectomy, severe chronic pelvic pain and now have an implanted neuromodulator device to help with pudendal and deep pelvic pain. It has completely changed every aspect of my life and how I am able to function in my life. And it is devastating to see that nothing has changed - that women are still suffering terrible birth injuries that can be prevented.

Childbirth education classes skirted over and around assisted deliveries - I thought I had done loads of reading and was well prepared. I didn't have a clue. I was up and around, mostly pain free after my section - I couldn't believe the difference in how I felt both physically and emotionally. After my first delivery, one of the younger doctors and a midwife came to see me the day after and said that was not a normal delivery - do you want to talk about it? I couldn't even think about it, let alone talk about it - it was so traumatising.

@Igneo

Mmm I’m not sure if i’d lay the blame for my difficult birth at the foot direcly of misogyny. I felt that the medics were following the treatment protocols to the letter and had no ability to respond to the effects of the treatment and to adapt accordingly. Was it really necessary to double the dose of syntocin every 30 mins, when I was very quickly unable to cope with the pain, but contractions were already building steadily?

Arriving at 6am, would it not have been wise to allow me to breakfast quickly befor starting the drips, so that I wasn’t hungry throughout?

The lack of ability to respond to women as they progress can make medics treat them in an inhumane way.

I know, the doubling of syntocin is mental. I demanded that they turn it right down at one point. There weren't even seconds between the contractions, they never came back down. I was about to rip it out of my arm if they hadn't listened to me!

I had a ventouse delivery and I have a lot of scar tissue but that's from the episiotomy. I begged them not to cut me but I know they only did it because it was necessary and it would have been more dangerous for me to keep pointlessly trying to push her out when her heart rate was dropping.

Sorry you suffered birth injury OP, I know it can be hard to come to terms with when the birth doesn't go the way you wanted.

I think from this thread it's clear that if a woman attempts a 'natural' birth, there are occasions when there is no choice but to proceed with an assisted delivery- and it's actually good to see some positive stories of when this has been handled really well and with care from HCP's (apologies I can't remember the name of the particular PP who sounded like she had a difficult birth but good care in the circumstances).

But it's the fact that women aren't being given full and accurate facts on the risks and benefits of different modes of delivery, that they are being pushed towards 'natural' birth without accurate information, without proper freedom of choice about how they would prefer to give birth, that feels wrong to me. If women were give full information about the risks of instrumental deliveries, they might not want to attempt a vaginal birth and that should be their decision to make. Women need to know the risks of an instrumental delivery- and if the risk of needing these kind of interventions means that a woman would prefer to have a c-section (with full knowledge of the potential risks in that situation too), she should be able to choose it instead. It's about full bodily autonomy and being able to make a properly informed choice.

@ LumosSolem Precisely. Well said. It is a matter of bodily autonomy. Mine was absolutely violated.

I think what I'm trying to say is I agree with posters that sometimes there is no choice but to opt for instrumental but I think women need to understand the likelihood of needing this, the risks and the potential long term effects, BEFORE they even attempt a vaginal birth. And if they prefer to take their chances with the associated risks of a c-section, then that it what they should be entitled to.

How did you not know? They need you to work qith them re pushing for a ventouse delivery?

@JaneTheVirgin

I agree that it's CHILDBIRTH that's more risky than women are ever told, not necessarily instrumental delivery. Usually they're used in a situation where it may very well be babies life or death, and a CS would be more risky due to birth canal positioning.

Have you spoken to your medical professional yet? Asked for a debrief?

Medical staff can and do get it wrong, so ask your questions. Educate yourself with everything you may need to ask those questions effectively and understand their answers so you know what to ask as follow ups. Also remember though that at the time it may have been the only way to save your baby. It may not be the case, but it's a strong possibility.

This 👆

Is your baby OK?

@Lightswitch123 Yes, thank god. He's great. He spent two days in the nicu as a precaution but he's healthy as a horse. He was a pound larger than the doctor predicted (I told him so...) and is still a big boy. 99th percentile for height. Initially, I had assumed there was no choice but the doctor's behavior made me suspicious ie. dismissive aftercare, falsifying my medical records etc. Surely if there was no choice he'd just tell me so directly and feel perfectly justified in his actions-whatever my injuries.

@itsstillhotinperth Thank you. I'm so sorry for all you've suffered. I also believe these injuries can be prevented. You are so brave! How did you get to a place where you felt comfortable getting pregnant again? Did carrying the pregnancy worsen your prolapses?

@Lightswitch123 @JaneTheVirgin Thanks for the advice on preparing for the conversation I'll have with him next month. I did ask him the next morning why he chose the vacuum and not a c-section and all he said was that my recovery would be so much better, which, of course, it has not been. He said nothing about danger to the baby, which was odd to me at the time. At my six-week check-up I told him the baby was healthy and he was totally uninterested just said "ok".

It's all very well making birthplans about what you do and don't want but when it comes down to it you don't know what is going to happen. There was no time for a caesarian in my case, that would have wasted time that was critical in a life or death situation it was a better choice to opt for invasive damaging assisted delivery. You may think everything is going well when suddenly something changes noone knows that is going to happen I stated I wanted a waterbirth but oh well no chance of that. That's life I'm afraid. Caesarians are not risk free either and have long recovery times and complications plenty of women have suffered because of them. I think the issue is people do think birth is going to be a lovely happy thing and sometimes it is but if that's what you expect and you end up damaged it is a massive shock and you question everything. Sometimes birth injuries happen and can't be helped it's how it has been since the start of time with some Improvements obviously. When midwives nurses and doctors deal with it all the time they see episiotomies and tears and other injuries all day every day it is not a major thing for them or horrific they just get on with it but when you are not aware of what can happen you might think things are a hell of a lot worse than what they actually are.