AIBU to think that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe

Cantgetausername87 · 20/01/2022 17:26

Following this because I'm very interested in what other people have to say. I had a ventouse delivery but didnt suffer any harm apart from the trauma of the birth itself and episiotomy x

Totalwasteofpaper · 20/01/2022 17:29

YANBU

I opted for elective c section precisely to avoid these sorts of situations

PrincessNikla · 20/01/2022 17:31

@Lulu1027

Last September I suffered severe injuries as the result of a ventouse delivery that I did not consent to. I am still in recovery. Since the incident, I have sought out other women who have had similar experiences and I'm coming to the conclusion that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe. AIBU to feel this? Have any mumsnet users suffered similarly?

Why did they think a ventouse was required? Why did you think it was not?

(not being goady, but its important to have all the facts)

LalaMelyn · 20/01/2022 17:31

I think childbirth is more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

Have you had a birth debrief type thing? Its sounds very traumatic

Original poster

Lulu1027 · 20/01/2022 17:32

@Cantgetausername87 Perhaps the difference in my case was caused by the fact that I was not given an episiotomy.

OP posts:

maya71 · 20/01/2022 17:33

thinkchildbirthis more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

I would definitely agree with this and think it needs to be much more widely acknowledged.

gorgeousbimbam · 20/01/2022 17:36

I didn’t consent to mine. They didn’t tell me they were doing it and afterwards I had not a clue what had been performed on me. I had to ask to see my notes a few days after to figure it all out. Not a sole in post natal would explain it to me. I suffer problems 5 years on. The attitude was very much that I had a healthy baby so they had done their jobs, no mind that I can’t run, hike, swim anymore.

BloomingInformation · 20/01/2022 17:36

We should consent? I’m pretty sure I didn’t know I’d had an episiotomy and forceps until DH told me about the sugar tongs and the nurse told me about the episiotomy. I mean I knew I was being stitched up but I thought I’d torn.
Childbirth is cruel and I really benefited from a debrief months after the birth. The child is now a teen and I still get pain from the scar.

Skeumorph · 20/01/2022 17:37

@Totalwasteofpaper

YANBU

I opted for elective c section precisely to avoid these sorts of situations

Me too.

All ok, fine. Any issues - flat no to instrumental of any kind.

Having seen a good cross-section of friends, colleagues and family births - several of which resulted in long-term severe problems/operations required later as a result of instrumental births - that was my risk assessment!

The only women I know with long-term issues around incontinence etc. had instrumental deliveries.

randomsabreuse · 20/01/2022 17:37

Multiple factors are involved. Issue 1 - if baby is down far enough for a ventouse to succeed a C-section would be much tougher as you need to hoik baby back up the birth canal. Forceps not so much.

Usually ventouse is needed to quickly get the baby out because of signs of distress. So the priority is to get them out asap.

Both mine were ventouse deliveries. 1st had cord wrapped around her foot so had a blue foot and had meconium in the waters so needed to come out. I tore with her but it only had some tight scar tissue that made exams on birth 2 sore (and making baby 2 tbf). Birth 2 was also a ventouse, in hindsight I think he shifted position so they couldn't find him on the monitor but I had an episiotomy with him and it's healed much more comfortably than the first one.

There are risks of assisted delivery but there are also risks of C-section especially with a child already in the birth canal and delay risks a dead baby and more risk to mother.

Skeumorph · 20/01/2022 17:40

@gorgeousbimbam

I didn’t consent to mine. They didn’t tell me they were doing it and afterwards I had not a clue what had been performed on me. I had to ask to see my notes a few days after to figure it all out. Not a sole in post natal would explain it to me. I suffer problems 5 years on. The attitude was very much that I had a healthy baby so they had done their jobs, no mind that I can’t run, hike, swim anymore.

See this was the kind of story I heard - that I could pretty much expect NOT to even be given the option to consent once things were belting along in a panic and I was (quite possibly) out of it in pain or stress or whatever.

So when No 1 was stuck and no progression, that was it. I refused to even lie down for examination and repeated that I would only consent to ELCS.

I am so so so glad I did!

Brunilde · 20/01/2022 17:40

I don't think you can jump to conclusions just from speaking to other mothers.

I had a ventouse and no serious after effects. I did have an episiotomy and still had a tear also but recovered well. But who's to say what would have happened in any other scenario. If I'd had a normal delivery would my baby have died? If I'd had a section would I have got an infection? More serious complications from the section? It's impossible to say in hindsight.

As someone above said childbirth has risks. Would the outcome for both you can baby have been as good in any other scenario? I don't think anyone can say for sure.

miltonj · 20/01/2022 17:41

It is shit and child birth is dangerous. Nothing should be done without consent or explanation and a proper debrief should take place.

However, what is the alternative? These procedures are necessary in many cases to keep women and babies alive.

Stopsnowing · 20/01/2022 17:43

Watch the film ‘the business of being born’

Original poster

Lulu1027 · 20/01/2022 17:44

@PrincessNikla I've never been told all the facts. The doctor came in and said "the baby needs to come out now so I'm going to give you some help." He set to work and I had no idea he was performing a ventouse delivery. I couldn't see over my abdomen and had an epidural so I couldn't feel what he was doing. I pushed when he told me to push. The next thing I knew I was being sewn up by him and another doctor and was told I "would be normal again." This was my first baby so I had no prior experience of birth and I trusted my doctor. I don't know if it was necessary or not. I don't know if I had been a candidate for a c-section or episiotomy earlier in the delivery. I'm in the US so there is no debrief service and my doctor has been tight-lipped. At my 6 week check-up I complained of pain and symptoms of prolapse. He told me that I didn't have one and said that I only felt badly because I had postpartum depression, for which he offered me an antidepressant. I have since been diagnosed with a slight bladder prolapse by another doctor and am doing pelvic floor physical therapy. My recovery has been appalling.

@LalaMelyn Agreed!

OP posts:

SoftPillow · 20/01/2022 17:47

I think that assisted deliveries can cause more injuries than we are made aware of.

I believe that the medical professional in inherently biased to cause woman worse outcomes then men, and that in childbirth we are often treated with such disrespect and inhumanity that I wonder why we put up with it.

I have been in a similar position and what helped me is (speaking purely personally and not implying that this would be the same for you):

understanding that nothing I did caused this
many many more woman than I ever suspected unfortunately have similar experiences. I was not alone.
birth injuries are not shameful
I had treatment for PTSD
I made an official complaint to the hospital
I had a birth review

It has taken years to recover mentally and physically.

JaneTheVirgin · 20/01/2022 17:49

I agree that it's CHILDBIRTH that's more risky than women are ever told, not necessarily instrumental delivery. Usually they're used in a situation where it may very well be babies life or death, and a CS would be more risky due to birth canal positioning.

Have you spoken to your medical professional yet? Asked for a debrief?

Medical staff can and do get it wrong, so ask your questions. Educate yourself with everything you may need to ask those questions effectively and understand their answers so you know what to ask as follow ups. Also remember though that at the time it may have been the only way to save your baby. It may not be the case, but it's a strong possibility.

SilverontheTree · 20/01/2022 17:51

I did a lot of research and came to the contact that I would only have an ELCS. I would urge anyone who is at all worried to do the same in the same circumstances (first baby at 35, history of multiple losses, ICSI baby, only wanted one.)

Original poster

Lulu1027 · 20/01/2022 17:51

@SoftPillow "I believe that the medical professional in inherently biased to cause woman worse outcomes then men, and that in childbirth we are often treated with such disrespect and inhumanity that I wonder why we put up with it."

Couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you @ SoftPillow

OP posts:

plantathon · 20/01/2022 17:52

All birth is more dangerous than 21st century women in think.

Elective C sections are not the simple procedure everyone thinks it is.

yourestandingonmyneck · 20/01/2022 17:55

@LalaMelyn

I think childbirth is more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

Have you had a birth debrief type thing? Its sounds very traumatic

I agree with this.

Childbirth can be terrifying.

I had an assisted delivery. It wasn't pleasant, but the baby wasn't coming out. There was no other option and it was incredibly scary.

It was the best (only) option available.

Chasingaftermidnight · 20/01/2022 17:56

I agree with you. And I think the risks of instrumental deliveries (to both mother and baby) are underplayed in comparison to the risks associated with caesareans.

LumosSolem · 20/01/2022 17:58

@plantathon

All birth is more dangerous than 21st century women in think.

Elective C sections are not the simple procedure everyone thinks it is.

No but then women should be aware of the facts before they give birth, not misled on the different modes of delivery as I believe they currently are, and if a woman wants an ELCS, she should get one without having to fight for it and be able to make an informed choice.

Have had two ELCS and it was fantastic both times. Painful for a couple of days yes but I recovered quickly both times with no ill effects at all. Would never have wanted anything different and feel very lucky.

ELCS is very different from an EMCS. Especially if you are choosing it when there is perhaps not a physical medical indication for it. Of course there will be a small number of people who have a different experience to me. But there are high numbers of women who have dreadful, traumatic experiences of vaginal deliveries. Who have very difficult recoveries and longlasting injuries.

MilduraS · 20/01/2022 17:59

I think generally if a childbirth reaches the point of requiring assisted delivery it's because it's already more dangerous than an uneventful birth. I didn't know I had an episiotomy at the time but had pre-agreed with my consultant that if it was needed I didn't want to be told. I had an epidural and didn't feel much. DD came out on her own but my placenta got stuck and I felt all the tugging then. I ended up in surgery due to bleeding. It turned out I had mild placenta accreta that was missed on ultrasounds so I feel quite lucky. Severe cases can require a c section and hysterectomy at the same time.

AppleBlueberryPie · 20/01/2022 18:01

The vast majority of women are all co-conspirators in normalising a hugely fucking risky experience that is natural birth. The risk of birth injury is 40% and the risk of needing an emergency section is around 30%. I'm forever grateful to MN for reading honest, anonymous accounts from women about their birth choices because every single person in my real life touted natural birth like there's no tomorrow.

A happy, natural birth needs to be seen as an incredibly fortunate gift, not the norm that everyone person in labour should expect. Most women have no idea how quickly things can go wrong and suffer in silence with birth injuries, mental trauma etc. Pregnant women are given the impression that you will have a memorable natural birth 90% of the time, and maybe 10% risk of complications. The real stats are extremely different.

My logic is that if I went into a situation with a one in THREE chance of ending up with major surgery then I would rather just choose the elective surgery and get it done with. Exactly what I did and had a wonderfully peaceful ELCS. Zero pain, in-and-out within 25 minutes and no problems BF afterwards. Interestingly, I was allowed the ELCS on the basis that I have a medical condition that increases the possibility of needing ventouse delivery. So for the OP, yes, assisted delivery is dangerous and a proven link is sufficient grounds for ELCS.