AIBU to think that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe

[Lulu1027]

Last September I suffered severe injuries as the result of a ventouse delivery that I did not consent to. I am still in recovery. Since the incident, I have sought out other women who have had similar experiences and I'm coming to the conclusion that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe. AIBU to feel this? Have any mumsnet users suffered similarly?

@LalaMelyn

I think childbirth is more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

Have you had a birth debrief type thing? Its sounds very traumatic

Yes - and it’s still a taboo subject.

@randomsabreuse

I'm honestly not convinced that a C-section is so much easier than a vaginal birth. I've not had a C-section and my only experience of abdominal surgery was a laparoscopic appendectomy but I much preferred dealing with my (admittedly only 2nd degree) tears/stitches than the recovery from the appendix.

I'd be more focused on improving post birth care, ensuring decent natural light in all post natal locations, putting in a routine physio assessment for pelvic floor function instead of the box ticking based 6 week check.

I'd also like to see a lot more help available on post natal wards - so you have someone to pass you the baby, help you get food etc, regular pain relief etc when you need it rather than being made to feel inconvenient. The contrast between the medical ward with my appendix where they happily helped me to the toilet etc as I was a bit dizzy and post natal where it was basically your baby, your problem...

My elective c-section was a breeze. No issues. You can’t even see the scar.

@Staryflight445

I agree with what you’ve said *@AppleBlueberryPie* it concerns me that people romanticise their birth experience, like it’s a happy event like a wedding or proposal or something.

I’ve noticed many women feel so angry over their birth trauma they fail to realise it was either that or losing their babies or their life. That is the risk. Giving birth is a means to an end, the issue is peoples attitude towards birth and their values to it, instead of realising how dangerous it is and actually, how important it is to be fully informed before giving birth.

Yeah. Some women seem to think doctors do instrumental deliveries just for fun. No they are trying to get the baby out alive and not brain-damaged. Crappy doctors do exist, but the majority are just trying to do their job.

@Tigger85 "the c-sec was better than the instrumental delivery and the induced Labour."

This is my belief. I was also induced for low amniotic fluid and I'm not sure if I needed to be. I was assessed for low fluid multiple times, sometimes twice in the course of an hour with different results (one low fluid, one normal). It seemed subjective based upon the practitioner. I was made to feel the baby was in danger so I agreed. In retrospect, I wish I had requested a c-section then and there. The induction was very aggressive (membrane sweep, balloon, cytotec, and pitocin) and set me on a course of mounting interventions. I struggled through without an epidural for over eight hours but was subjected to rough cervical exams every hour or two, which I just couldn't tolerate anymore. They hurt more than the pitocin induced contractions. I had had a perfect pregnancy and at my 39 week appointment, I was suddenly a medical emergency. Incidentally, at the same appointment, they told me they were too busy to schedule my 40 week check up...I've wondered if they were just trying to get me off the dockett.

@Focus126 This doctor was definitely crappy. If he had no choice why didn't he simply explain that to be--at the time or subsequently? And why did he falsify my medical records and offer me no after care?

No one is trying to bash doctors here. They do an incredible very important job. They are also people, not Gods. Some of them are awful. I have doctors in my family and they don’t all think that every doctor is wonderful. Patient care is actually a really big part of the process.
Of course they don’t do it all just for fun, but something they make the wrong decision and their behaviour is not ethical.

When I asked him why I wasn't given a c-section earlier he didn't say it was never an option, he only replied that I'd have a better recovery this way. A feeble excuse at best and totally untrue. I was unable to walk properly for weeks and ultimately discovered that he had refashioned my labia minora and clitoral hood and that I had a prolapse. I have an appointment with him in a month to ask him again why he made the choices he did.

@BiscuitLover3678 Agreed. My uncle, the obgyn, was appalled by what I suffered.

I was at high risk of bleeding and had a mechanically unassisted birth with DC1 but still had retained placenta and 3litre PPH. The actual PPH increased my risk of bleeding further for subsequent births. For DC2 I was under the care of a teaching hospital due to being higher risk and was advised that a CS would actually increase the risk of bleeding even more so they are not always a straightforward alternative.

With DC1's labour I remember the fear of forceps somehow helping me through it even though it was a tortuous nightmare, but with DC2 I was asking for them to be used as I just wanted him out and for it to end!

I had one "textbook" birth which left me with PTSD. My second birth my baby ended up in NICU and I had a PPH. However I have no trauma and positive memories of it. The difference was my medical caregiver and the relationship we had. I felt the love, care, the emotional connection she had to me, the profound respect she held me in, how she honoured my decisions and my emotions.

I'm so sorry you were not held in this way during your experience OP, and like so many other women.

I found thus book very helpful: howtohealabadbirth.com

Yanbu, I will never be fully continent again after ventouse, forceps and third degree tear. Obstetric anal sphincter injuries are not as uncommon as people think, it's just taboo to talk about them and nobody wants to hear about the ongoing after effects.

YANBU, the risks aren’t explained. My undercarriage is certainly not what it was but more importantly my DD has multiple consequences of the birth injuries she received from forceps.

In February 2020 I had an assisted delivery. We were under the impression we were going for a CS.
I was in my 4th day of labour, having been induced as a medical emergency. If it was an emergency, why was I still in labour 4 days later with every consultant I saw pushing the case onto the next shift? No one would take responsibility. Eventually my DD almost died and someone finally realised they should do something and I was taken down to theatre. I'd not eaten for 4 days and had been on an epidural for a couple of days plus lots of medication before that (codeine, morphine etc) when I got a piece of paper shoved under my nose and told to sign it without being allowed to read it (not that I was in a fit state to).
I was then subjected to a forceps delivery with an episiotomy plus tearing. I was discharged the following morning with no checks done. I was ill for approx 6mths afterwards and my DD was readmitted within a couple of weeks too.
Every single person I spoke to while I was at hospital had been subjected to a forceps delivery. And every one of them had suffered nasty consequences.
To rub salt in the wound, when my DD was readmitted to hospital we were accused of abusing her because of the state of her face. The damage THEY caused with the forceps.

My second baby is due in a few weeks. I've been refused an ELCS despite the trauma of the first birth (I have a trauma birth plan and have PTSD according to a specialist I have seen. I can see this birth following the first and being too similar. I don't think I could cope with another induction and instrumental delivery.

@PissedOffNeighbour22 your experience sounds awful, I'm so so sorry to read what happened. Are you in the UK? You shouldn't be refused an ELCS.

globalnews.ca/news/7828769/planned-c-sections-less-risky-mom-baby/

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/dec/18/women-have-been-woefully-neglected-does-medical-science-have-a-gender-problem

Found this interesting. When I had DD EMCS and ELCS were lumped together in studies vs natural birth. It was hard to find actual statistics that would be useful to me.

I think the UK is barbaric when it comes to womens healthcare. I moved abroad where I had DD by ELCS, I had no arguing or shaming from my OBGYN, she set out the options and consequences and said “it’s up to you”. There was an acknowledgment that childbirth is painful however you do it and that it is possible to ease that. My CS recovery was fine, took me a week to be fully functional with some twinges, I just had to amend how I got out of bed etc. it was nice to be spoken to like I wasn’t a complete moron.

@LumosSolem yes I'm in the UK. I know they shouldn't have refused, but they did and I only have 3wks until my due date.
I was given a variety of excuses including it's too late to book an ELCS, it's not medically necessary, unless ELCS is discussed at the beginning of care it can't be an option, my previous experience doesn't impact this pregnancy, high BMI means I'll recover badly from an ELCS, my medical issue means I'm more likely to bleed heavily and my personal favourite - my medical condition doesn't cause pain. The whole reason my first birth went so badly was that they refused to believe I was in so much pain from an issue I have. The pain masked all contractions and because I couldn't feel them they denied I was in labour. I was also hospitalised during my first pregnancy from the pain at this point in my first pregnancy.

I'm using a different trust this time and obviously they promised the world. The reality is they have no midwife appointments (supposed to be seen every two weeks and it's been 8wks), there's no beds - last time I was in to be seen they were telling women they needed to come in for induction immediately but there were several days wait for beds and it's impossible to get anything dealt with.

It was a female consultant I saw and she was completely dismissive of both my previous problems and issues that other medical professionals have raised about this current baby.
Luckily I have someone who is trying to get me in to see another consultant but I've heard nothing since the beginning of the week. I was supposed to be re-scanned by today but there's no appointments available.
The whole situation has been a joke from start to finish and I really do despair of what might happen.
I'm still waiting for the promised physio for the damage caused by the first birth 2yrs ago but this was all on hold with the usual 'cos of Covid' excuse. Whereas my DP called about a vasectomy a few days ago and has already been referred to speak to someone and be booked in. If that was a woman's issue he'd have been waiting years.

I had a similar birth and it took me a long time to recover. I would definitely recommend a debrief. I had mine much later when I was pregnant with my second and it helped.

Essentially birth is still quite a dangerous thing. Medical advances mean that the experience might not be pleasant but you and the baby will survive when you might not have otherwise. 100 years ago one or both of us would have most likely died (me from infection/blood loss and my daughter from being stuck and in distress.

My second birth was much better and a completely different experience. I didn’t need pain relief, had a water birth and quick recovery.

Part of the problem is high expectations of what the experience should be and I do think some of that expectation has come from the way NCT teaches. I remember at our catch post birth our teacher was so delighted by the water birth one of our group had and was so disappointed by mine and my inability to breastfeed.

@Focus126 not at all. I have no criticism at all of the doctors and midwife who delivered my baby with forceps. I sent them a thank you card.

The issue is whether or not instrumental deliveries are more dangerous than women are told.

Also every single one of these birth injuries could be avoided by an elective caesarean. Lots of women don’t want that, and prefer a vaginal birth - which is fine. All birth choices should be supported. But lots of women who want a section are pushed into a vaginal birth on the false promise of it being the better option, without being fully informed of the risks. That’s unacceptable. This thread is about honesty and being upfront about how awful instrumental deliveries are for so many women.

On debriefs - I had a debrief and it is helpful. It hasn’t repaired the irreparable damage the forceps did to me though. The only way to do that is not to have the instrumental delivery in the first place.

@BiscuitLover3678

It would help if women weren’t treated like pieces of meat, made to lie on the bed, given involuntary internal examinations which are obviously going to stop natural labour. All comes back to poor NHS funding.

Absolutely this 100 times! Im overseas and its the exact same here

I researched before my births and had it written into my notes that I would accept ventouse, not forceps. If that was the case they should go to c-section.

I had two ventouse deliveries, no episiotomies, minor tears and no lasting damage, and then one emergency c-section because baby was too high to be able to yank out.

I never particularly worried about birth injuries and I've been lucky that I'm unaffected but I do have a friend who suffered a terrible prolapse following a birth injury caused by an assisted delivery and years later she's still struggling with surgeries to correct her issues.

I agree OP. The posters who trust that docs are always making the right choices for the baby in the moment are naively thinking the system works. There are huge statistical variations between the birth outcomes of women with very similar profiles. Different hospitals, different staff within hospitals have different stats. Knowing where or who you see makes a difference to your delivery. If we look globally there are counties with better outcomes and massively reduced assisted births.

There isn’t enough respect for the mother and too many decisions made as a consequence of poor practice, funding and training.

The failures in communication is often a whole other disaster.

I voted YABU purely because childbirth is much more dangerous that we are led to believe.

We all get sold the story of spontaneous Labour which hurts but few complications. So many women don’t have that. Assisted delivery has its risks, but they are massively less than a stuck baby.

It does very much seem that some interventions are given too quickly, however one would assume in the vast majority of cases the primary concern is keeping mother and baby alive.

I had a great delivery with my first, total mess with my second. I’m too scared to have another to be honest, I’m incredibly lucky that both myself and DC2 are alive. It is thanks to rapid intervention of the doctors that we are both here. If I did have another I’d insist on scheduled section.

[quote CorneliusVetch]@Focus126 not at all. I have no criticism at all of the doctors and midwife who delivered my baby with forceps. I sent them a thank you card.

The issue is whether or not instrumental deliveries are more dangerous than women are told.

Also every single one of these birth injuries could be avoided by an elective caesarean. Lots of women don’t want that, and prefer a vaginal birth - which is fine. All birth choices should be supported. But lots of women who want a section are pushed into a vaginal birth on the false promise of it being the better option, without being fully informed of the risks. That’s unacceptable. This thread is about honesty and being upfront about how awful instrumental deliveries are for so many women.[/quote]
I do agree that not much info is given about the risks of vaginal birth and instrumental deliveries.
I was given leaflets with the risks of a C-section and risks of an induction, but not risks of a "natural" or assisted birth.
So improvements can be made here.

And at the same time, I feel like there is a certain level of demonisation of medical profession in threads like this. In this thread there were assumptions that certain things happened because of "misogyny" or lack of respect or care for women, when we don't know if that was the case.

We need to distinguish between genuine cases of medical malpractice and cases where doctors did the best they could in a difficult situation.

Demonisation of medical profession leads to dangerous things like freebirths and vaccine refusals.

Mmm I’m not sure if i’d lay the blame for my difficult birth at the foot direcly of misogyny.
I felt that the medics were following the treatment protocols to the letter and had no ability to respond to the effects of the treatment and to adapt accordingly. Was it really necessary to double the dose of syntocin every 30 mins, when I was very quickly unable to cope with the pain, but contractions were already building steadily?

Arriving at 6am, would it not have been wise to allow me to breakfast quickly befor starting the drips, so that I wasn’t hungry throughout?

The lack of ability to respond to women as they progress can make medics treat them in an inhumane way.