AIBU to think that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe

[Lulu1027]

Last September I suffered severe injuries as the result of a ventouse delivery that I did not consent to. I am still in recovery. Since the incident, I have sought out other women who have had similar experiences and I'm coming to the conclusion that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe. AIBU to feel this? Have any mumsnet users suffered similarly?

There are studies looking at this. Speaking to other mothers is not a controlled study.
For what it’s worth I had a ventouse delivery and it was fine and got out my floppy baby, who then needed oxygen. I was so grateful.
I’ve also had epidurals and drugs with no issues.

@JaneTheVirgin "Also remember though that at the time it may have been the only way to save your baby."

I came home from the hospital thinking this, but as I slowly began to understand the gravity of my injuries I wondered if I had been properly cared for. Then I ordered my medical records and realized that my doctor stated that I gave informed consent (I did not). Also, he only recorded my 3rd-degree perineal tear (when I had additional external and internal injuries). To this day I don't fully understand what repairs were made to my body. This is wrong. If there were no other option why didn't he just tell me so, inform me of my injuries, and help me with after care? My uncle, who is the head of obstetrics at a large university hospital, reviewed my medical records and, even before I told him of the additional injuries he said they were strangely brief. He's advised me to see a urogynecologist and a lawyer.

No but then women should be aware of the facts before they give birth, not misled on the different modes of delivery as I believe they currently are, and if a woman wants an ELCS, she should get one without having to fight for it and be able to make an informed choice.

Exactly. A lot of information is withheld from women, or at least not presented to us upfront - for example, the age-related risks of needing an instrumental delivery, and the risks associated with instrumental delivery. I can’t remember the exact figures but I remember being staggered at the chances of instrumental delivery if giving birth for the first time aged 35+.

And this information is presumably kept from women in order to stop them from requesting ELCSs. It’s better to cut them and drag babies out of them with salad tongs round the head.

I had a ventouse delivery but it wasn't until I was pregnant again five years later that I found out I'd lost a lot of blood, and my placenta had disintegrated so had to be removed manually, and I should have been offered counselling due to it being traumatic.

I opted for a caesarean this time.

Forceps, bad 3rd degree tear and episiotomy over here!
It was very traumatising but the next day the surgeon came and saw me and walked me through each second from the moment he came in the room. He showed me on a heart rate print out where my babies heart beat practically disappeared, each action he took at each point and why he had to make a snap decision not to do c section as he thought she wouldn’t make it while they prepped for it.
I have to say without the debrief I would have been a lot more traumatised by how quick and scary it all was. I now have the strength of knowledge that even though it left me in a state down there my baby is alive because of their quick actions and I’m grateful. The doctor was so conscientious and kind when talking to me the next day and acknowledged it was a very traumatising thing to go through and put my feelings about it very central so I do think he was focussed on me but during the birth his main priority was getting my baby out alive which I agree with.
My husband had a bit more knowledge “in the moment” because he had watched along with the midwife the heartbeat getting more and more in distress.

Third degree tear and ventouse for me.

I was out of it and don't remember it all clearly. I know they were very apologetic and I since think that this was a delay in putting in a catheter (so pushing onto a full bladder).

I think mistakes were made but they are human. And certainly where the NHS is concerned, they are constrained by resources and hindered by a system that is very far from a tight ship.

For a long time it felt like my innards were going to fall out but I was lucky to heal well and I think running helped (although felt very wrong for a long time).

The difference for me was, each and every medical professional was really decent, kind, caring and just brilliant at their job. It sounds like you had the opposite - dismissive, belittling and mean.

Mistakes happened, better medical choices could have been made, I think someone acknowledging that to you would have made a very big difference.

Forceps here. It was only on day 2 I realise I had an episiotomy when I was having a sneaky read of my notes. I suppose as it was an emergency, there was no time for informed consent (buzzer to birth in 9 minutes) but yknow.. maybe something afterwards would have helped.

Also NO one tells you about assisted births beforehand. I had to Google it.

I had a forceps delivery due to maternal exhaustion. The wonderful female doctor asked if she could perform an episiotomy and I said no so she didn't. She got him out with no blood loss, no tears, not even a graze. Amazing woman. Still felt like I'd had a bus driven out of me for weeks, and it took years to get proper tone back. It was way more traumatic than the planned section I had with the next baby. That was bloody brilliant, and much nicer for the baby I expect!

I had in my birth plan that I would want a CS rather than an instrumental delivery and I drummed it in to husband that I do not consent to an instrumental delivery at all. A good friend was severely injured from her birth and I just didn't want the same.

I don't think they are more dangerous than we are led to believe. There are risks, anyone whos done any kind of antenatal class is aware of them. Everyone i know has tried to avoid instrumental deliveries. Sometimes its too late to though of baby's head is too far down the birth canal. They haven't smudged the stats or anything.

I would actually say c sections are far more dangerous than we are led to believe. Alwasy treated as routine and an easy option. I've met women with permanent spinal injuries from c sections.

Yes. I gave birth in 2020 overseas where i live. Dh wasnt allowed in at any point so i was totally alone, i do speak the language here but not fluently. I had long painful labour, failed epidural. I was exhausted and had 2 previous nights of no sleep.
Was snapped at by a nurse who asked me 'why I seemed to be giving up'... after 16 hours strapped to the ctg machine on my back I had no strength left and was in so much pain.
Doctor came in just before midnight and forced my feet into the stirrups (I had previously asked please not to have to put my feet in as my spine felt like it was splitting and I couldn't breathe through the pain) then a nurse came and was holding my arms down to the side of the bed, I had absolutely no idea what they were doing to me and think I was crying hysterically by this point, I heard the word episiotomy in other language and asked them to please explain to me in English which they didn't. I can barely remember what happened next nor ds being placed on me... they gave me an episiotomy which I didn't consent to, ventouse delivery, and I had also torn. Ds was then taken away to be weighed and dressed and I was left on the bed with my legs in stirrups, blood everywhere for around 20 minutes until the doctor came back to stitch me.

The entire thing was inhumane and disgraceful. It took me months to recover and I still struggle to think about it all.

@AppleBlueberryPie You are absolutely right. As women, it's essential that we speak openly about birth experienceseven traumatic onesso that we can make informed choices. If I ever have another child I will be having an elcs.

@Chasingaftermidnight Agreed!

@LashesZ "Also NO one tells you about assisted births beforehand. I had to Google it." They don't! In fact, when I took the hospital's prenatal course they glossed over ventouse deliveries because "you'd never have one."

@madmomma That's wonderful. You see, my doctor clearly did not have the skill to perform the assisted delivery. My injuries are not normal, even for an assisted delivery. If it were only the 3rd degree tear I wouldn't be complaining. I also suffered an internal tear of some description (which he mentioned briefly at the time but is not recorded in my medical records) and I can plainly see that I was torn all the way up either side of my labia minora (also not recorded). I'm grateful that I've healed well and none of the stitches came undone, but it looks like I received a labiaplasty, which is incredibly violating.

@UnderTheMoonlightWeDanced That level of communication and compassion would make all the difference.

I agree with what you’ve said @AppleBlueberryPie it concerns me that people romanticise their birth experience, like it’s a happy event like a wedding or proposal or something.

I’ve noticed many women feel so angry over their birth trauma they fail to realise it was either that or losing their babies or their life. That is the risk. Giving birth is a means to an end, the issue is peoples attitude towards birth and their values to it, instead of realising how dangerous it is and actually, how important it is to be fully informed before giving birth.

thinkchildbirthis more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

I agree

I had a semi elective CS & they used a ventouse, very common apparently.

Lulu1027

@AppleBlueberryPie You are absolutely right. As women, it's essential that we speak openly about birth experienceseven traumatic onesso that we can make informed choices. If I ever have another child I will be having an elcs.

Why op? I think a c section has 3 x the risk of a natural birth?
I lost just over 2 litres of blood due to an episiotomy with my first child, I had a perfectly normal delivery with no assistance for my second.

Unless a doctor is seriously recommending you have a section, I’m not sure it’s the right choice to make statistically?

YANBU

We are one of the few 1st world countries to still use forceps for example

In countries with better health care most would be straight in for a C-section the second anything looked like it might end up with an assisted delivery

One of the many reasons I went for an elective C section for mine.

The NHS does it to save money, not for womens health

Yanbu as your experience was bad.
I was very lucky as my registrar was excellent. My baby had been in distress for a while and the doctor talked me through everything clearly. She said that I had two pushes to get her out or a ventouse would be needed. It wasn’t needed but had it been I know that the dr would have been very clear and calm about consent etc. I’m sure her manner helped me to deliver safely.

@Scotabroad24 I'm so sorry you suffered this. No woman should be treated this way.

@JustWonderingIfYou Based upon the little information I received from the nurse, I believe he was too far down for a c-section. She could see the top of his head and commented on his hair. I just couldn't get his head through. She later told me it was cocked to one side. I was not tired and everyone commented on how well I was pushing. Based on this scant info, it seems likely that, had I been given an episiotomy earlier, I could have pushed his head through on my own.

@Staryflight445 My injuries are such that I have been advised that a c-section is now safer for me.

@lulu1027 unfortunately a lot of women where I live have had similar experiences. I'm sorry to read of your injuries too, I can't even contemplate what you must be feeling.

The NCT courses go into great detail about the dangers of assisted delivery and how women should try to avoid the 'catalogue of interventions' which they say typically start with unnecessary inductions or epidurals.

Mine ended up being Forceps and Episiotomy. Surgeon told me immediately beforehand that that is what he wanted to use.
Birth was horrible and I reacted badly to the drugs. But I didn't suffer from the forceps or the Episiotomy, I healed fairly quickly.
So personally, I cant relate.

Elective C Section filmed by my BFriend. Don't trust the NHS in the slightest.
When asking my consultant how his wife gave birth he answered Elective C Section for all three of their DC.

@twosticksandanapple I wish I had known about this resource. I'm in the US so I hadn't heard about it. I asked my doctor plenty of questions in the lead up to the birth, read books, and took more than one course, including the one given by the hospital. During the hospital info session, I was given the impression that assisted deliveries were virtually never performed there. None of them prepared me for what happened.

All the information is available, I think the doctors and midwives can gloss over possible complications sometimes. They are quite eager to discharge you these days too.
Had a few different deliveries. Vontouse because of fetal distress, 2 unassisted vb's, elcs with breech twins, cat3 c-section with scar rupture due to very big baby. I asked repeatedly if babys size would be an issue with my previous scar but they were adamant it wouldn't increase the risk of rupture, I knew they were wrong.