AIBU to think that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe

[Lulu1027]

Last September I suffered severe injuries as the result of a ventouse delivery that I did not consent to. I am still in recovery. Since the incident, I have sought out other women who have had similar experiences and I'm coming to the conclusion that assisted deliveries are more dangerous than we are led to believe. AIBU to feel this? Have any mumsnet users suffered similarly?

@Ginandvomits
The film I mentioned, Birth Time, is made by women in Australia and focuses on maternity systems there.

Just to add I had two ventouse deliveries with no issues

Yabu they do not undertake assisted deliveries unless necessary. They will have informed you it was necessary.

Unfortunately epidurals increase the likelihood of needing an assisted delivery, I'm not sure whether this is clearly communicated before labour

@DSGR

There are studies looking at this. Speaking to other mothers is not a controlled study. For what it’s worth I had a ventouse delivery and it was fine and got out my floppy baby, who then needed oxygen. I was so grateful. I’ve also had epidurals and drugs with no issues.

There are studies looking at instrumental deliveries and they generally show an association between an instrumental delivery and maternal trauma.

Here is one recent one: www.cmaj.ca/content/194/1/E1

There are countless such studies.

There is also a tendency in the medical profession to dismiss thing like prolapse, pelvic floor trauma, incontinence as minor issues. Fine, they don’t kill you. But for so many women they are desperately traumatic and distressing injuries to live with. I don’t think I’ve seen many studies accounting for that.

I had a forceps delivery, episiotomy and 3rd degree tear. I was left so long in stirrups prior to finally bring taken into theatre that the peroneal nerve down the side of my knee cap was severed. Not crushed, but actually severed. I had a newborn baby and couldn't walk for 9+ months. I had foot drop. I had to have an MRI when my child was 4 weeks old and a range of painful nerve conduction studies to assess the damage. The hospital let me leave the ward with my leg literally dragging behind me. I was told it was "just the after effects of the epidural".
After I was stitched up on the table, I heard the panic in the voices in the room. They had lost the needle they used to stitch me up. I lay there for 40 minutes staring at the ceiling while they panicked looking for the needle. I was about to be wheeled away for an xray to see if they could find it. It finally turned up in some dressings somewhere.

Also had/have a prolapse as a result of forceps. Had a "repair" 5 years after birth. They fucked that up too. Stitched through my ureter and I nearly lost my kidney. They didn't believe me of course that I was in severe pain after the op. I screamed and screamed fir hours until they finally 'gave in' and took me for a scan. "Oh yes, I'm very sorry, I have stitched through your ureter"...
Emergency surgery to release the 3 stitches and a stent put in my ureter. Another op 6 weeks later to have it taken out.
And quelle surprise, the repair didn't hold because 3 of the 5 stitches were taken out.

@CorneliusVetch "There is also a tendency in the medical profession to dismiss thing like prolapse, pelvic floor trauma, incontinence as minor issues. Fine, they don’t kill you. But for so many women they are desperately traumatic and distressing injuries to live with. I don’t think I’ve seen many studies accounting for that."

This! Part of the misogyny of the field of obstetrics.

OP I’m so so sorry for your experience. I gave birth in a hospital that had declared a major incident for covid in January 2021. 50% of people in the hospital had covid. There were staff shortages and I had never met the midwife I had before and it was her first time in the hospital. The paper recording my baby’s heartbeat ran out and I don’t think she knew where to get replacement. As far as I’m away the “emergency” situation I found myself in was as a result of this and no actual distress of my baby. I was given an episiotomy and ventouse. I consider this to have been totally unnecessary as I pushed the baby out in two pushes and they said they did not have to pull on the ventouse. My baby got 10/10 on the APGAR score so was in no distress. Luckily however my recovery was fine and I have no issues and everything in working order. I would like a debrief from the hospital as I was having a wonderful hypnobirthing experience and it was ruined by inexperience and incompetence as far as I’m aware

@TaketheTrain Good God! I'm so sorry. How are you now? Its a wonder these charlatans are allowed to practice.

I had three ventouse deliveries and I'm fine? Watch this thread with interest though

I had a foreceps delivery with my first. It scared me deeply. I suffered horrid injuries and developed PTSD. It was so traumatic I swore I would never ever do it again. Never considered another child. My GP 6 years later asked if I had been thinking of another (cant remember why, it was a routine appointment for something). For some reason I got triggered and told her my story. She said that I wouldnt need to do it again. That I could have a c-section. I got pregnant shortly after. I had amazing mental health from the perinatal team. Trauma councelling, everything. It was decided by me, mentall health team, consultant midife and consultant that I should have a c-section. No one made me "fight" for it. was met with nothing but empathy. My lil one was early so I went into labour before my scheduled section but I came in and was treated as an emergency section (although no emergency). It was the single most healing experience of my life. That section healed me. It healed my husband too. He cried tears of relief, he'd been holding the fear in for so long. It was calm, serene and joyous. Out came the little baby, dh walked off with him to meet his grandmother (my MIL) while I got stiched up. I then got rolled into the recovery bit where MIL and the midwife helped with my bf. It was so relaxed. Yes sore, for sure. But honestly, nowhere near the pain and trauma of having your lady garden cut open and a baby pulled out with monster pair of scissors.

I went into that first delivery with some nearls yard oavender spray thinking i could "breathe" the baby out. Could i fuck. I came out deeply traumatised.

@Lulu1027 erm, not so bad considering! Obviously still have prolapse but I'm trying to learn to live with it.
I think more than the physical side of things, I'm really bitter about how I was treated like I didn't matter. Not spoken to while I was on the table, alone for 40 minutes after the most traumatic thing I'd ever gone through. Dismissed when I said "something is wrong with my leg". Dismissed when I told them after the repair op that I was in intense pain.

But! Because I'm a stubborn cow I went through the most intense physio and treatment to get the use of my leg back. I literally could not accept I wouldn't walk properly again.

So sorry to hear about your experience too, it wasn't too long ago for you, how are you feeling? x

I do agree that the paternalistic, often belittling approach to women’s health choices (especially around birth) is another massive barrier that still stands in the way of equality.

I think though, the focus on instrumental delivery is too narrow. The whole conversation around birth is wrong. The idea that, if we read the hypnobirthing book and do some breathing it’ll be plain sailing just isn’t the truth. My problem isn’t with instrumental deliveries (they can and do save lives when sh*t hits the fan). It’s the fact that women are allowed to get to that stage of pregnancy and labour without any true idea of what birth might entail and the potential life changing problems they may face. It’s hardly an informed decision we make, is it.

I’m sorry for your traumatic experience. I think all women should be offered a birth debrief as part of normal care. Chasing for it is all part of the problem.

@LalaMelyn

I think childbirth is more dangerous than we are led to believe tbh.

Have you had a birth debrief type thing? Its sounds very traumatic

I agree with this unfortunately. I think far too many women are sold the pipe dream of a magical experience when the reality for several is that it is traumatic

Yes and no. By that point there aren’t many options and c sections can be pretty severe.
They need to do more preventative work so it doesn’t get there in the first place (and then there is lots of research about what this may be - one big factor is far too many inductions when they aren’t necessarily needed). Also hospital environments and trauma of experience means far more women can’t cope without an epidural which is likely to cause this.
And yeah I had to bloody fight for my c section but so glad I did.

It would help if women weren’t treated like pieces of meat, made to lie on the bed, given involuntary internal examinations which are obviously going to stop natural labour. All comes back to poor NHS funding.

Childbirth in its self is “dangerous” there are so many things that can go wrong however sometimes an assisted delivery is essential.

If it wasn’t for forceps my ds wouldn’t be here now. He wasn’t breathing and they had to work on him and take him to special care due to this, if he had been in any longer we would have lost him. So I’m eternally grateful for my assisted delivery. Was it pleasant,no, was it the birth I had envisioned, no, was it a necessity, yes!

@BiscuitLover3678

It would help if women weren’t treated like pieces of meat, made to lie on the bed, given involuntary internal examinations which are obviously going to stop natural labour. All comes back to poor NHS funding.

Agree funding isn't good enough but I don't think it's just about money- it's sexism and misogyny which is rife in medicine.

@TaketheTrain I'm glad to hear that! I'm also livid about being treated like a piece of meat (rather than a sentient human being) in the delivery room. Congrats on your recovery, which is due to your strength and determination! I'm on the mend but it's been a long road. I spent the first month lying on my side while DH cared for me and the baby. My uncle (an obgyn) told me to stop pumping because I need my estrogen to rebound to heal. That has helped enormously. Prolapse symptoms are 90% gone and now doing physio to strengthen my pelvic floor. I still struggle with the memories and feeling disfigured. I'm also a stubborn cow and this SOB messed with the wrong vagina. One way or another he will suffer some consequences from this because I firmly believe he's a danger to other women.

My DM had an assisted delivery with me, her 1st child. She said it was so horrific she’d never do it again. I missed out on siblings and my DM had problems with her mental and physical health for years - throughout my whole childhood. It had a pretty brutal effect on my parents’ relationship too.

The thing that strikes me is where are the stats on this? You shouldn’t need to come to mumsnet to get anecdotal evidence there should be research into this, but there appears to be very little. We don’t know if assisted deliveries are safe if no one follows up with women and babies to see how they recover long term from different delivery types. It’s a disgusting neglect of women and their medical needs.

@BiscuitLover3678 totally agree. The book "Why human rights on childbirth matters" is a good read. And @Stopsnowing that is an eye opening film. The iatrogenic risks of the hospital environment are not well understood. I opted out with my second child, after a grim instrumental birth with my first, and birthed her at home with an independent midwife.

@LumosSolem and most women just come out saying “at least we’re both ok” ie alive. Rarely anyone does anything about it. It’s a very vulnerable situation to be in.

I'm honestly not convinced that a C-section is so much easier than a vaginal birth. I've not had a C-section and my only experience of abdominal surgery was a laparoscopic appendectomy but I much preferred dealing with my (admittedly only 2nd degree) tears/stitches than the recovery from the appendix.

I'd be more focused on improving post birth care, ensuring decent natural light in all post natal locations, putting in a routine physio assessment for pelvic floor function instead of the box ticking based 6 week check.

I'd also like to see a lot more help available on post natal wards - so you have someone to pass you the baby, help you get food etc, regular pain relief etc when you need it rather than being made to feel inconvenient. The contrast between the medical ward with my appendix where they happily helped me to the toilet etc as I was a bit dizzy and post natal where it was basically your baby, your problem...

I’m still angry about my birth experience. Pretty much every woman I know who gave birth in a hospital is.

Hopefully this is something that we look back on and think fuck that! Women really didn’t mean much did they? (Look back because it’s changed).

YANBU I've heard so many horror stories that on my birth plan, in red print I had:

I DO NOT CONSENT TO THE USE OF FORCEPS OR VENTUOSE. IN THE EVENT THAT ASSISTANCE IS NEEDED, I WOULD LIKE TO OPT FOR AN URGENT C SECTION.

When you put the word consent in, they usually take it seriously.

One of my friend's sons had a forceps birth and had brain damage as a result.