Why do men do this

[Tevion28]

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

In the last few weeks i have experienced and witnessed several incidents of road rage, all by men directed at women . Its absolutely disgusting that they feel they are at liberty to rage and abuse women for no reason other than a percieved slight. Society encourages it in boys from an early age, in aggressively shouting at kids playing football, teenage boys being exposed to violent and abusive porn or any porn where women are passive receptacles of their needs.i despair at those so called feminists that chant sex work is work . Lets disregard the reasons why majority of women accept sexual subjugation as their lot in life. Would these feminists be happy if their sons/dads/ brothers openly purchased young women for their sexual needs. Or their future daughters ended up working on the streets

I just think a lot of men are fucked up by the patriarchy. The patriarchy that says things like you mustn't wear brown shoes and shit like that. No wonder a number want to change sex legally. Being a man-masculinity is (ironically) horribly narrow. They have imprisoned themselves in toxicity.

Not that this is any excuse whatsoever for attacking women, but there has been far too much focus on what women are doing, when women are largely in criminal terms, not a problem.

There needs to be a lot more focus on what it means to be a man and how we bring boys up.

Because within two clicks of a mouse a man can be watching women being choked, raped, spat on, and beaten under the name "pornography", and this is celebrated.

Schools do teach about misogyny and sexual assault etc. But kids don't listen. In the same way they've been taught what an adjective was since about year 3, but swear blind they never have.

@Bitbloweyoutthere

Schools do teach about misogyny and sexual assault etc. But kids don't listen. In the same way they've been taught what an adjective was since about year 3, but swear blind they never have.

See, you I don't know if you can really teach this stuff at school. Though its better to do it there than not at all. But really kids need good role models. Girls good role models of women with strong boundaries, and boys with good role models of men who genuinely view women as equal human beings. And that's lacking.

I agree with PP, that mothers cannot solve this problem.
Boys need good role models from the men in their lives and to have peers who are emulating good role models. Because they are going to take their cue of how to be a man from other men.

I was talking to a male colleague about this once. What he said always stayed with me. We were talking about men abusing women on a big scale.

He said three things.

"Men like the power over women"

He also said "Would you give up that bit of power, not at all"

and he said

"If you are going to abuse anyone, who are you going to abuse? You are going to abuse the people that are weaker than you".

Men abuse women because they can, because we are physically weaker than them.

So we live in a world where the bigger people are constantly hurting the smaller people..

The only thing that will protect women is when governments put more things in place to protect women.

There needs to be a national strategy and a national taskforce in every country aiming to protect women, and to develop and improve this every year.

I'm in Ireland. After Ashling Murphy's murder, Women in Government have been saying that there needs to be a national approach to improving Gender violence in Ireland .

From my own personal experience, I have lived in the UK and I have lived in Ireland. I think that misogyny and violence against women is FAR worse in Ireland. I felt like I was treated with much more respect in the UK.

I have seen men treat women like animals in Ireland. Its shocking. I think that the problem is even worse in Ireland , because of the Catholic church. It was a woman hating church. And for a long time it had supreme power in Ireland. So alot of the nastiness, agressiveness and misogyny that you see in the men here, comes from the Catholic church telling men that they were gods, and women were dirt. I have heard men say horrific things about women here in Ireland. If my family wasnt here, I wouldnt live here as a woman to be honest.

@Flapjak

In the last few weeks i have experienced and witnessed several incidents of road rage, all by men directed at women . Its absolutely disgusting that they feel they are at liberty to rage and abuse women for no reason other than a percieved slight. Society encourages it in boys from an early age, in aggressively shouting at kids playing football, teenage boys being exposed to violent and abusive porn or any porn where women are passive receptacles of their needs.i despair at those so called feminists that chant sex work is work . Lets disregard the reasons why majority of women accept sexual subjugation as their lot in life. Would these feminists be happy if their sons/dads/ brothers openly purchased young women for their sexual needs. Or their future daughters ended up working on the streets

I have personal experience of this - I live in a street with a parking bully

If I even hover near his house and look like I might be parking (its an unrestricted public road) he is out and bullying. I worry he will damage my car.

If my male neighbour comes out (we are friends) he backs down immediately and if my boyfriend comes over- he deliberately parks there now as he is so annoyed at him the bully DOES NOT SAY A THING

I am firmly of the belief that until manly, working class men speak up against it - young men don't listen

Men kill each other a lot more. Why do men kill other men?

@User135644

Men kill each other a lot more. Why do men kill other men?

with greatest respect, that's not what we are talking about here

Because they can. It's that simple. They're stronger, and there are hardly any consequences, personally and societially. Women don't matter as much a class. Depressing, yes. But that's my take from what I see and experience.

Won't the bigger people always attack the smaller people?

Like in the animal kingdom, the bigger animals always attack the smaller animals.

So if the bigger humans are always going to attack the smaller humans, there should be ALOT more care and thought put into safety of women. It is a huge priority.

There should have been national taskforces established on women's safety, years ago!

There should be a whole government department on women's issues.

A female in Government here in Ireland, just pointed out that there is no Minister at all for Gender issues. When there should be one.

Women used to stay in their box a lot more. It really was a man's world, particularly workplaces, pubs and the like. Men would have gone day to day hardly having to deal with women. Or dealing with them in several fairly scripted ways. While they were sure, and constantly reassured of their innate superiority. It has changed vastly for women in a relative short space of time and some men can't deal with it - even the young ones who were not brought up in that world.

^It's grand to be an Englishman in 1910
King Edward's on the throne;
It's the age of men
I'm the lord of my castle
The sov'reign, the liege!
I treat my subjects: servants, children, wife
With a firm but gentle hand
Noblesse oblige^

@VelvetChairGirl

I dont think its hatrid anymore then you hate the pig you casually just ate for breakfast as bacon.

its disdain a sense they are not sentient in a way, a means to an end, a commodity to be used and thrown away, the killing is just to cover tracks to prevent being caught or part of the fun or both.

to hate you have to have an emotional attachment to someone, to have an emotional attachment to someone means you have to acknowledge it as an individual in some way or to be connected to someone you do have an emotional connection to and to somehow represent them.

but in general to be able to use, abuse and kill with a clear conscious, the victim has to be dehumanished and thus seen as nothing a thing to be used and thrown away without a care, that includes without hate.

Very good point. I cannot understand how the brutality in the meat industry is ok with most. e nonchalantly shrug and excuse away the suffering an animal endures from the day its born til packed off to a processing plant.

As a society we have all made our peace with that. Refugees are selling children to feed their families,we are saddened but we wouldn't fight to change it in any meaningful way further than donating a few quid or signing a petition.

Unless we are directly affected,people don't actually give a shit. I was raped by a man who had no fear of consequence. Yet if somebody cut him up in traffic, it would enrage him for the rest of the day.

with greatest respect, that's not what we are talking about here

It is. Men kill, it's what they do. You can go back to hunter/gatherer times. They still hunt and kill animals now. They still kill other men (in far higher rates than they do women). They still kill women.

@Bitbloweyoutthere

Yes! Twat ex was older than me, but no formal qualifications and was too good to get an actual job, unless the right one turned up. I had 2 years of being told that I thought I knew it all cos I'd been to uni, but 'in the real world'. And I was boring/stupid and everyone thought I was up myself.

Didn't stop him pissing my money up the wall though.

Yep - the most latest one I dated did not work or go to college for 5 years in his 20s - heaven knows what he did. He was gifted his dad business and works alongside his sisters - prances about being a ‘director’. 🤣

They also KNOW
He said to me during our last date (before I dumped him) - I bet you hardly get any guys approaching you because they know you wont stand for much nonsense - being tall blonde, gym, going to X university and working as an X. It makes you feel sick how premediated they are about how they are choosing the targets they feel they can percieve to manipulate for the longest.

I think it is more a human condition based on power than a male condition - anecdotally I have heard that women tend to be much closer to men in the infant homicide stats, where women have power of the children. I've struggled to find data which does separate infant homicides by the sex of the perpetrator, but the follow study from South Africa shows women were responsible for 70% of homicides of children under 5.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846035/

A female in Government here in Ireland, just pointed out that there is no Minister at all for Gender issues. When there should be one

Well, no. There should be a Minister looking at Sex Inequality.
What I have come to realise is that talking about gender rather than sex has led to people minimising male violence against women.
Because admitting that is a problem with male violence means you have to accept women need single sex spaces.

So you get things like Layla Moran, when asked about women's need for single sex spaces, saying, with a laugh, that we have laws to prosecute men who attack women. So with one fell swoop she dismisses the need for anything to prevent male violence to women. Or the Welsh Government Equality Impact Assessment denying there are any implications for women of replacing sex with gender and accusing women of 'predatory determinism' if they raise concerns of male violence to women. And time after time I have witnessed people, friends, who used to articulately talk about their experiences throughout their lives of male aggression, intimidation and voyeurism, who now deny the stats and reality of male violence against women, because they don't want to admit the need for single sex spaces.

Throughout this thread people have raised the sex-based reality of male violence, male bodies are bigger and stronger, straight men want to access women's bodies. The problems are rooted in sexed
bodies.

The move to deny that bodily sexed reality is diluting the way policy and law makers talk about violence against women and what we should do to tackle it.

@DrSbaitso

For nigh on two years now, JK Rowling has been getting death and rape threats daily for saying that men can't turn into women and that women need female-only spaces to keep them safe from predatory men who might, you know, rape and kill them. The overwhelming response to this is that JKR is the bad guy. Someone told me the other day that she'd put herself in the wrong by making sarcastic comments on Twitter about it.

I think that says it all.

Exactly. If women are anything but passive, modestly dressed, sober, they are responsible for anything that may happen to them.

If a woman stands up against the daily misogyny (and once you see it you can’t unsee it) she’s a troublemaker, she’s shrill, she doesn’t have the charisma that a man would have, she’s too feminine, she’s not feminine enough, she’s a lesbian (heaven forbid), she’s a man-hater, she’s ugly, she’s a slag, she needs a god shag to sort her out.

Men defend other men. We won’t see a reduction in rapes (the real Numbers, not the pathetic conviction rate we have right now) until men start to defend women, instead of colluding in rape jokes, locker room talk, defending each other or sitting silently by.

Men need to deal with this, not women. They can start by seeing women as fully human.

@SleepingDoglets

I completely agree - as a woman dating you hear all sorta of nonsense.
I was once in a situation whereby the man verbally threatened to rape me and I ghosted him. The responses to this from friends were no that I was completely within my right to do so - they were

‘Were why did YOU go to his house’
‘What did YOU expect from a man you had known for six weeks and not brought up relationships / sex’
‘YOU should not have ghosted him’
‘YOU should have less intimidating to him’ (loose my career, not go to gym as much and if you do dont tell him, also dont tell him you get facials or wear fancy clothes you might intimidate him)
‘YOU should have seen sooner - he must have been so patient to wait over a month, no wonder he said those things’.

These were all from woman.
And lets be honest if I had slept with him and he ghosted me or treated me like shit the same comments with a different narrative would over play.

And if I complained about his ghosting me after sex
‘What did YOU expect’

It is an exhausting exhausting narrative and one that seems to be getting worse the stronger woman become.

@Trippingslippingx1
May I ask how old you are? I am genuinely shocked by those comments from your female friends. I am getting on for 50 and my friends when I was young (or now) would never have said any of that.

It is an exhausting exhausting narrative and one that seems to be getting worse the stronger woman become.

I think women use this narrative to reassure themselves if they "do the right things" they will be safe.

They also KNOW

They really do and that is what is so depressing.
Even the really lovely ones know - they might be disgusted and then avoid those men but they still don't tackle it

(could be unfair- not sure I know how my lovely stepdad could have done more)

For example I wouldn't go jogging through the park at the end of my road at night, if something did happen to me, some would blame me for being there.

@CaveMum - I have heard about the Stockholm Syndrome thing before.
Also, apparently, the whole "fight or flight" response is only true in men and the study that initially established it was done in men. Women in a fight/flight scenario actually often go down a third route whereby they talk, rationalise and try to appease the attacker.
I don't have a link for that - but it was from a podcast I listened to by Laura Richards - ex Scotland yard criminal behavioural analyst person.