Why do men do this

[Tevion28]

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

This is quite outing so I'll change some details but when I was pregnant I was trying to leave work. It was around midnight and I was parked in the office multistory. As I was trying to drive out a group of men walked past the exit to the car park, noticed me in the car and surrounded me.
I locked the doors instantly but they were all laughing and trying the door handles. Most of them for bored quickly but one man terrified me. He stood staring into my eyes and licked his lips before punching the windows of the car. Fortunately I lay on the horn and the security at work heard it all and caught it on CCTV so the men all ran off.
I actually wet myself I was so scared. I didn't leave the house for a week because I was convinced by being a woman I had endangered my baby.

DH was besides himself with fury and insisted that I should have ran the bastards down but I couldn't move in that moment. I still think about this all the time and how differently it could have gone if I hadn't locked the door or if security hadn't heard.

@Mistlewoeandwhine

I agree with all the comments here. Sometimes I do wonder if on a deep level all men do despise us. I have two sons. The only way we can change things is for all mothers to really, really work with their sons and raise them to see the patriarchy for what it is.

So it's up to the women to fix men? I think parents should work with their sons so that they grow up respecting other humans.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

This is quite outing so I'll change some details but when I was pregnant I was trying to leave work. It was around midnight and I was parked in the office multistory. As I was trying to drive out a group of men walked past the exit to the car park, noticed me in the car and surrounded me. I locked the doors instantly but they were all laughing and trying the door handles. Most of them for bored quickly but one man terrified me. He stood staring into my eyes and licked his lips before punching the windows of the car. Fortunately I lay on the horn and the security at work heard it all and caught it on CCTV so the men all ran off. I actually wet myself I was so scared. I didn't leave the house for a week because I was convinced by being a woman I had endangered my baby.

DH was besides himself with fury and insisted that I should have ran the bastards down but I couldn't move in that moment. I still think about this all the time and how differently it could have gone if I hadn't locked the door or if security hadn't heard.

I was also in an intimidating situation where a man tried to pull me into some bushes. I quietly wrestled him off me and ran off. Not once did I say a peep. I always thought I would scream for my life if I was in that situation, but I couldn't for some reason. It's horrible. I'm glad you had the idea to lock the door and lay on the horn though.

I think parents should work with their sons so that they grow up respecting other humans.

And on a societal level there should be more support for people to leave abusive relationships, the majority of these are women with children, so that boys (and girls) aren't growing up in households where violence and abuse is the norm. There should be education around misogyny in schools the same way there is about other forms of hate. The law should stand firm against rapists, abusers, and those who commit violence with a robust prosecution process and strong sentencing that sends the message "this will not be tolerated" instead of the wishy-washy bullshit we have right now that operates from a standpoint that the victim was somehow complicit.

For nigh on two years now, JK Rowling has been getting death and rape threats daily for saying that men can't turn into women and that women need female-only spaces to keep them safe from predatory men who might, you know, rape and kill them. The overwhelming response to this is that JKR is the bad guy. Someone told me the other day that she'd put herself in the wrong by making sarcastic comments on Twitter about it.

I think that says it all.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea can I just say what an awesome job you did? It’s easy for anyone to tell you what you should have done but what you actually did under pressure was magnificent.

During an online zoom vigil for Aisling, a man joined while masturbating. He repeatedly kept trying to join to show everybody him wanking.

So here's what I think. Any kind of thing like this - stick them on the sex offenders register. Get rid of this thinking that because a man hasn't physically hurt a woman yet that the Gardai can do nothing.

Arrest and charge the gropers and the flashers from the very first instance and even if you don't get a custodial sentence a fine and the sex offenders register curtailing their J1 or ability to work abroad or with vulnerable people or join sports teams might soften their cough.

Consequences for their sexual deviancy from the very start is the only way we begin to stamp out this behaviour. In the 80s drink driving in Ireland was badly policed, tolerated and even encouraged. Now it's morally and socially unacceptable thanks to tougher laws, tougher consequences, policing and public safety campaigns. Change is possible but it will only happen when each and every leery act that makes a woman feel uneasy or unsafe or just downright afraid is addressed by convictions.

The only way we can change things is for all mothers to really, really work with their sons

Ah yes always the mother's fault. How about dad's be proper role models and show their sons not to treat women like shit but as equals

@Mistlewoeandwhine

I agree with all the comments here. Sometimes I do wonder if on a deep level all men do despise us. I have two sons. The only way we can change things is for all mothers to really, really work with their sons and raise them to see the patriarchy for what it is.

It’s not just a mother’s job. I would have thought it’s more important that fathers show their sons how to respect women. And the best way they do that is by treating their sons’ mother properly, with love, consideration and respect.

How often do we see posts on here where men treat their partners like shit and it’s often witnessed by children. These are all subliminal messages that our children are receiving on a daily basis, whether they be good messages or bad.

Don’t lay the responsibility for our son’s behaviour at the door of mothers.

Some men with personality disorders are sadistic. They simply enjoy tormenting and injuring others. Rage is not necessarily involved for such men.

Also, many sociopaths would not be deterred by perceiving an action as risky. They actively enjoy the element of danger/risk.

Personality disorders don't really qualify as 'mental health problems' in my opinion. But they are significantly involved in much of this kind of violence.

Men want power and women are the easier target (than other men) to use to make them feel powerful. Our whole society has been built by men to allow them as much power as they can get.

[quote thelegohooverer]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea can I just say what an awesome job you did? It’s easy for anyone to tell you what you should have done but what you actually did under pressure was magnificent.[/quote]
Thank you very much

They get off on it imo. They know they can hurt us anytime they want to.

A swinger colleague of dh literally tried it on with every woman he met. He tried to chat a college student 30y his junior up and couldn’t comprehend dh viewpoint that it was wrong and downright pervy and that he was intimidating her. Genuinely thought some girls liked an older man and he stood a chance.

Man exposes himself during online vigil for Ashling Murphy (via @IrishTimes) www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-exposes-himself-during-online-vigil-for-ashling-murphy-1.4778518

Men are, an awful lot of them, awful.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea I’m so sorry that happened to you.

People often talk about “flight or fight” responses, but the truth is there are two other perfectly natural responses to a situation but they are more common amongst women than men - freeze and comply.

To me I think the main reason behind these attacks is that society has allowed men to believe they are entitled to women and when the women don’t “comply” it turns to anger and hatred - incel culture is classic in this respect.

@Drinkingallthewine

During an online zoom vigil for Aisling, a man joined while masturbating. He repeatedly kept trying to join to show everybody him wanking.

So here's what I think. Any kind of thing like this - stick them on the sex offenders register. Get rid of this thinking that because a man hasn't physically hurt a woman yet that the Gardai can do nothing.

Arrest and charge the gropers and the flashers from the very first instance and even if you don't get a custodial sentence a fine and the sex offenders register curtailing their J1 or ability to work abroad or with vulnerable people or join sports teams might soften their cough.

Consequences for their sexual deviancy from the very start is the only way we begin to stamp out this behaviour. In the 80s drink driving in Ireland was badly policed, tolerated and even encouraged. Now it's morally and socially unacceptable thanks to tougher laws, tougher consequences, policing and public safety campaigns. Change is possible but it will only happen when each and every leery act that makes a woman feel uneasy or unsafe or just downright afraid is addressed by convictions.

Sorry, @Drinkingallthewine,I didn't see your comment when I posted.

Why do people steal? Hatred or merely wanting to get something for nothing? I think by and large criminals commit crimes for their own perverse pleasure, and not out of a deep-seated hated or twisted ideology. It just happens to be that compared to men, women usually are weaker, and so an easy target. If women were physically as strong as men, physical violence would be far more balanced against both genders.

If women were physically as strong as men, physical violence would be far more balanced against both genders.

The evidence shows, however, that in most countries men are more likely to victims of violence than women. So it’s not as simple as bad men targeting women. Rather it’s bad men targeting everybody. Talk to virtually any quiet and respectful 16 year old boy who is never aggressive and in most cases they’ve likely been on the receiving end of an assault or attempted assault at least half a dozen times through their teenage years. And those violent perpetrators rarely “grow out of it”. Of course, those violent boys are likely to also be intimidating girls (less likely violent assault at that age, more threatening behaviour or perhaps sexual crime). Unfortunately an acceptance of a certain degree of violent male behaviour is ingrained in our society and educational upbringings. It differs widely across cultures too of course. The US, is on many metrics several times more violent than the UK, which is in turn several times more violent than Japan. But then Japan is on many metrics still a deeply patriarchal society - just a less violent one.

www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence

[quote supermoonrising]If women were physically as strong as men, physical violence would be far more balanced against both genders.

The evidence shows, however, that in most countries men are more likely to victims of violence than women. So it’s not as simple as bad men targeting women. Rather it’s bad men targeting everybody. Talk to virtually any quiet and respectful 16 year old boy who is never aggressive and in most cases they’ve likely been on the receiving end of an assault or attempted assault at least half a dozen times through their teenage years. And those violent perpetrators rarely “grow out of it”. Of course, those violent boys are likely to also be intimidating girls (less likely violent assault at that age, more threatening behaviour or perhaps sexual crime). Unfortunately an acceptance of a certain degree of violent male behaviour is ingrained in our society and educational upbringings. It differs widely across cultures too of course. The US, is on many metrics several times more violent than the UK, which is in turn several times more violent than Japan. But then Japan is on many metrics still a deeply patriarchal society - just a less violent one.

www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence[/quote]
But they aren't being targeted because they're men. I'm not saying there is ever an acceptable reason, but they're not being attacked just for being men.

We have a better chance of tackling those issues if they're related to, for example, gang culture or criminal activity.

How do we tackle the common crime of attacking women because they're women?

How do we tackle the common crime of attacking women because they're women?

Are they though? And if yes, is it because said men think women are inferior to them?

In some cases, yes. But mostly, I believe, women are attacked because they are easier targets. And in case of sexual violence, because they are sexually attractive to men.

Point is, barring some kind of implant or breeding program that can remove any thoughts of criminality, there isn't much society can do. This isn't a cultural issue (at least not in civilised countries), but one of criminals existing, and usually going for the easiest targets.

Men hate women and we have been conditioned not to challenge them.
I'm a teacher and so many boys go out of their way to tell me I'm wrong about almost everything. Male teachers dont have the same . I call it out every single time now but that's because I'm 47 and fiesty. Manly men need to lead by example. Young men do not listen to any one else

[quote CaveMum]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea I’m so sorry that happened to you.

People often talk about “flight or fight” responses, but the truth is there are two other perfectly natural responses to a situation but they are more common amongst women than men - freeze and comply.

To me I think the main reason behind these attacks is that society has allowed men to believe they are entitled to women and when the women don’t “comply” it turns to anger and hatred - incel culture is classic in this respect.[/quote]
Thank you and I agree. Freezing is horrible, it's almost like we're so conditioned to let men do whatever they want that our brain just disengages from our bodies.

Fight or flight is a very male response to a threat. Judith Herman (expert in trauma) found that women are more likely to tend or befriend as a response because these responses keep them safest. Of course these are subsequently used as 'evidence' that the woman might be in somecway responsible for what happened to her. Because as we all know, a woman's place is in the wrong,

So sorry to hear of that Slice. I had similar in India. I was a flimsy door and a dose of luck away from gang rape. I never knew the phase “gibbering with fear” was actually true until that night.

@SantaClawsServiette

Oh, I'd agree that men are more prone to violence than women. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's not. So that's a factor overall.

Also, yes, the fact that men are generally speaking sexually interested in women is a factor for some. It's one of the most powerful drives and it also links in some ways to violent feelings.

Again with the victim blaming - unattractive undesirable women get raped too. It’s not about getting sexual kicks, it’s about power