Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do men do this

398 replies

Tevion28 · 17/01/2022 15:11

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

OP posts:
BellatricksStrange · 24/01/2022 17:00

*It's a simple question: Is it offensive to suggest one modifies their behaviour due to the existence of criminals?

If by ‘behaviour’ you mean ‘going out in public’ then yes of course it’s offensive*

Is that what I mean? Funny I don't remember saying that at all. Clear the red mist from your eyes and try to actually read what's written.

*In fact it's not even offensive when made in regards to general personal safety, only when it's directed at women. Nobody is getting offended by being told some neighbourhoods or estates are best avoided at night. But when it's suggested that women take sensible precautions, somehow this becomes offensive. Why?

Because when women are literally being killed when having a daytime run it seems that ‘sensible precautions’ mean staying indoors. It’s putting the onus on women to behave in a way that makes sure they don’t get raped - except the ‘behave’ part means ‘doing anything at all’*

Nice job ripping down the strawman you created.

If a copper were to advise a man, 'Don't go into that estate at night,' nobody would have a problem with it. But the same copper telling a woman, 'Don't take that shortcut at night,' would get lambasted for putting the onus on women bla bla.

But there is no fundamental difference whatsoever. In both instances innocent people are being told to modify their own behaviour due to the existence of criminals. So why get het up about the woman being told to take precautions, but not the man?

Question for you: If insurance companies don’t pay out if you haven’t taken the right precautions to protect your goods - for example, if you leave your front door open and get burgled - why don’t the police have this policy for rape? Why do you think that is?

Because - and I'll try to speak slowly so that you might get it - there is a difference between police enforcing law and order, and an insurance company paying out when the victim didn't take all sensible precautions to keep their possessions safe.

In the case of a phone being stolen from a car seat, police would still prosecute the burglar if they were caught. Because as far as the crime is concerned, the fact that the victim could have taken better precautions, doesn't excuse the criminal.

*I'd go so far to say that most people would question why an ordinary bloke wandered into a dangerous estate at night, and we still don't consider that victim blaming.

I hope that if he was raped there’d be nothing but sympathy, and people like you wouldn’t say ‘what was he doing there at night’*

Nice deflection, but wholly disingenuous. If he got mugged, people would question why he wandered into that estate, even though he is perfectly within his rights to do so.

People should have the right to do what they please without fear of criminals, yet we don't find it offensive to advise them how be safe from criminals. Except when it comes to women and rape. Then sensible advice suddenly becomes offensive and patriarchy.

BellatricksStrange · 24/01/2022 17:05

@FMSucks

I am so done with men. Married two abusive pricks, literally every man I've ever known has been or tried to be inappropriate with me in some way. This includes ex husband's friends, my own friend's husbands and my own so called male "friends."

I am mid 40s and I will NEVER have another relationship again. I will never share my bed with another man again.

I am attempting to raise my two sons to be very aware of how to treat women, how to conduct themselves around women, how to respect them, how to protect them. Will it work? I really don't know because I think men are genetically predisposed with a sense of entitlement that women just don't have.

While some posters have said hating men is not the answer, it's damn hard not to.

How you expect to raise your sons to be aware of how to treat women, when you are literally placing them in the class of the enemy, is baffling. As long as you perpetuate the gender war, it will never end. You are teaching your sons that there is a war and they are on the other side. Good luck with that.
sillysmiles · 25/01/2022 09:58

As long as you perpetuate the gender war, it will never end. You are teaching your sons that there is a war and they are on the other side

Is it no possible to teach your sons that they need - by their thoughts words and actions - to make sure they are on the right side.

PleasantBirthday · 25/01/2022 10:58

As long as you perpetuate the gender war, it will never end. You are teaching your sons that there is a war and they are on the other side

Yeah, it's definitely the job of women to endure any abuse so that sons can learn not to be abusive from that (?).

AsYouWishButtercup · 25/01/2022 11:07

Only true misogynists think that telling men to respect women at a very basic level is “waging war”.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 11:55

I agree about the gender war comment.

If we keep hating all men for what some men have done, it just keeps the battle going.

I feel like I wasted years of my life being angry at men.

To look at a similiar scenario.

In the past black people were brutalized for being black. And they still suffer discrimination and brutality today for being black.

But if a black person goes around hating all white people, that anger will hurt her.

If I go around hating all men, it just hurts me.

Lots of groups have been abusive to other groups in the past and still today.

White people have abused other races.
Men have abused women.
Women have abused children.

We need to forgive and move forward. Hatred keeps us stuck in a cycle.

Wanting to move forward helps us into a new era.

We are all souls

PleasantBirthday · 25/01/2022 12:49

God that's some silly nonsense.

Barbarantia · 25/01/2022 12:51

Ah ! I've missed some things. We've moved onto women outing bad behaviour being classified as a war!
Ha! Is this why men do not call out bad behaviour of other men towards women? War crimes just took on a whole new meaning.

But wait let me get the logic right : some women calling out the bad behaviour of some men is akin to ALL women HATING ALL men.
Honestly how does our species reproduce? Are we all sados?
Anyway, does this mean when men thought women were air heads they also thought ALL women were air heads? Was it a gender war then too? Or is it only a war when the air head points out that categorising her as inferior is bad behaviour? Would you call it 'an artefact of its time' to be called an air head or are we allowed to call it HATE or is it only "hate" when the air heads get together and think about it?

AsYouWishButtercup · 25/01/2022 12:53

Again, wanting respect does not = hating men.

Wanting to not be raped and killed does not = hating men.

When you’re privileged, equality feels like oppression (as quoted by someone else!)

AsYouWishButtercup · 25/01/2022 12:53

Also can we stop peddling the tripe that women hurt and kill children more than men do. They don’t.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:23

Pleasant birthday you said "god that's some silly nonsense".

You do you. I'll do me. We are going to think differently aren't way. But I'm entitled to my opinion.

I'm talking about how I think. Not how anyone else thinks. You think whatever you want.

But in my own life, when I stopped being angry at men in general, I was a lot, lot happier.

And I began directing the energy I spent being angry at men, into other more useful avenues.

I don't think I would say to someone else about what they do in their life "god that is nonsense".

The grown up attitude would be to say "you have your opinion and I'll have mine".

All men as a group are not responsible for violence against women.

Hatred and anger at anyone only wastes our own lives, in my opinion

You do you. I'll do me

Barbarantia · 25/01/2022 14:31

You do you. I do me.
After generalising about how people, men, women races women children.
Yeah you went from group to individual and back whenever it suited you.
You want it to be on an individual level stick to that and you can hold your moral high ground. You step into the group perspective and you are into the debate and open to criticism. Your group stance about everyone having the potential to be an asshole was utter drivel.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:46

In my personal life I have forgiven men. And I stand by that. As my opinion.

I won't bow to the peer pressure of this thread to hate all men.

And I am not a "pickme" as some of you are sneeringly describing women who don't hate all men. I am an independent woman , I own my own house have a great job, single, have never depended on a man. So I am not a "pickme"

But I don't hate all men.

PleasantBirthday · 25/01/2022 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mufasa1118 · 25/01/2022 14:56

Pleasantbirthday

You are abusing some one on a thread - that talks about how abusive men are.

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

PleasantBirthday · 25/01/2022 15:02

No, that's not ironic at all, What I'm saying is a proportionate response to the silly suggestion that women responding to male abuse by talking about it and withdrawing from future intimate relationships with men is abuse and somehow equivalent to the actual abuse that women suffer at the hands of men (which will somehow be eliminated if only women are all woozy nice and fluffily non-confrontational)...I mean, there are no words.

Barbarantia · 25/01/2022 15:08

I'm not here to be nice to you. I also don't subscribe to your idea of agression or power. So no I'm neither being aggressive or feeling powerful.

You've come here with "my opinion is not up for debate", "if you don't agree with my opinion then you're being abusive" and "my opinion has a lot to do with how everyone is being at war with men because i used to hate men".

If you can't separate yourself from the projections you're putting on others, it's utter drivel and I'm not going to sugar coat it to make you feel nice.

PleasantBirthday · 25/01/2022 15:10

Oh, you really didn't like that. Oh dear.

BellatricksStrange · 25/01/2022 17:34

@AsYouWishButtercup

Only true misogynists think that telling men to respect women at a very basic level is “waging war”.
Not talking about that. Her general attitude to men is that they're all the enemy. She doesn't even hold out much hope for her sons being any better. With an attitude like that, I think it'll turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Enough4me · 25/01/2022 20:24

If someone has the perspective that all men are the enemy, shouting that they aren't or saying smile and lead a happier life doesn't help.

It's male aggression and violence that causes the problems and the issues for women and DC are well known.

The only way I see improvement is if male poor behaviour is dealt with more seriously, e.g.

Male flashing/stalking = prison sentence.
Male murder of women = never a sex act, long sentence.

AsYouWishButtercup · 25/01/2022 21:09

@Mufasa1118

In my personal life I have forgiven men. And I stand by that. As my opinion.

I won't bow to the peer pressure of this thread to hate all men.

And I am not a "pickme" as some of you are sneeringly describing women who don't hate all men. I am an independent woman , I own my own house have a great job, single, have never depended on a man. So I am not a "pickme"

But I don't hate all men.

No one has asked you to hate all men.

Good for you if you can forgive, not every can or should.

Not sure how owning your own house is relevant but this thread is about violence against women.

It’s ok if some women do hate men, as long as they’re not causing them harm. But when men hate women, they set out to hurt them. When women hate men they just want to not be around them.

Swipe left for the next trending thread