Why do men do this

[Tevion28]

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

That's part of the truth but it's not the whole truth. Men are (on average) bigger than women, stronger than women, more aggressive. That's not by chance or just down to social norms. Cooperation is human, but so is conflict and the need to protect you and yours from others

I don't deny most of this. Men are bigger and stronger than women - its why sex matters and we can't replace it with gender. I do think men as a population are more aggressive than women. I remember an epidemiologist saying that even in the country in the world where the women are the more violent than women in other countries, they are still substantially less violent than the men in the country where men are the more peaceable than men in other countries.

But that doesn't mean that men are unable to control their behaviour. We all have instinctive animal drives but we are all able to control these to prevent ourselves hurting others. Moving from childhood to adulthood is an exercise in slowly developing mastery over your behaviour. Men are every bit as capable as women of this. Its nonsense to pretend they cannot.

I agree. Surely if women grow up, men can also grow up?

Adults are responsible for their own actions, it's not just a woman's issue to be responsible.

[quote AsYouWishButtercup]@Alexusuk55 I’m going to bite and reply to your racist post - not EVERY rapist in the UK is Eastern European. But they DO have one common denominator - what do you think it is?

I love how racists are happy to taint everyone with the same brush when it comes their agenda but they insist sexual violence isn’t a man’s problem, despite nearly all perpetrators being men. I despise racists, but stupid and inconsistent racists are especially infuriating[/quote]
Too true.

YANBU- I think it's a deep, pathological contempt and loathing for us. I also think that sort of man see us as less than human, mere bodies put here for their use and amusement ( bodies with vaginas?) and devoid of the right to agency, e.g. to say "No!" to them.
This sort of brutal murder also indicates pathological rage. The murderer will probably always be a danger to women and at the very least, should receive a "whole life" sentence.

@Butteryflakycrust83

The one example I sum up to my husband whenever we discuss the differences between men and women is one day I was walking to work, 8am on a Monday, and some random bloke came up to me and whispered 'ANAL!'

Women do not do that.

In that moment, that man felt like he had power over me.

Ugh! Filthy bastard! I'm sorry, that would have been horrible! You're right, we just don't do that to men..or other women either!

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

This is quite outing so I'll change some details but when I was pregnant I was trying to leave work. It was around midnight and I was parked in the office multistory. As I was trying to drive out a group of men walked past the exit to the car park, noticed me in the car and surrounded me. I locked the doors instantly but they were all laughing and trying the door handles. Most of them for bored quickly but one man terrified me. He stood staring into my eyes and licked his lips before punching the windows of the car. Fortunately I lay on the horn and the security at work heard it all and caught it on CCTV so the men all ran off. I actually wet myself I was so scared. I didn't leave the house for a week because I was convinced by being a woman I had endangered my baby.

DH was besides himself with fury and insisted that I should have ran the bastards down but I couldn't move in that moment. I still think about this all the time and how differently it could have gone if I hadn't locked the door or if security hadn't heard.

Oh Lord, that's horrific , I'm so sorry! I feel genuinely disturbed and angry on your behalf! Those men are scum and I'd say the one who scared you the most is a real danger to women. How are you now? I'm not surprised your husband was furious!

I urge everyone to read up about the case of Maria Stubbings. She was murdered in 2008 by her ex boyfriend who had already served 15 years in jail for murdering his partner in Germany as well as 4 months in the UK for assaulting Maria. She called police numerous times about him hanging around outside her house and after he broke in and stole her medication. And yet the police failed to take her calls seriously.

Laura Richards is covering her case in the latest episode of Crime Analyst. Listen to that and tell me again that the authorities take DV and coercive control seriously.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/crime-analyst/id1545830333?i=1000547855797

[quote eldora]@BellatricksStrange

Huh? You've totally missed my point. Sorry but I'm not wasting my time trying again. Go through everything that was said, what I quoted and what I replied, and maybe you'll get it.

This is the classic cop-out answer when you don't have an answer.

The fact is, there is no precaution these women could have taken when faced with the reality of men who hate and want to kill women.

Even if they stayed home, they would be at risk from their own husbands and partners.[/quote]
I'll try one more time.

Let me be clear: I'm not telling anyone to take precautions. Nor am I saying that if they didn't, it was somehow their fault. Clear enough?

What I am challenging is the prevailing outrage when anyone does mention taking precautions. Even the slightest hint, provokes outrage and accusations of victim blaming.

Ok, if that's how you feel, fair enough. But let's test, shall we?

• Do you feel outrage when you see a poster exhorting you not to leave your valuables in clear sight?
• Do you feel outrage when someone suggests not leaving an iphone on a car seat?
• Be honest, if you were to hear of someone who did leave their new iphone on the car seat in a rough neighbourhood, and it got stolen, would the thought cross you mind, "Why did you leave it there?"?

I'm assuming that most people don't get outraged in the above scenarios, and that the above thought does cross their mind.

So my question is, if it is indeed outrageous to suggest people take precautions to ensure their personal safety, why do you not feel the same outrage when it is suggested you don't leave an iphone in clear sight?

I'm not comparing anything with anything. Got it? I'm not comparing anything with anything. Clear enough?

I am just testing the thought process that advising people to take precautions due to their being bad people around is somehow outrageous and victim blaming.

@Mufasa1118

When I was thinking about men hurting women, I wondered for a time if it is human instinct, that if you are big, you feel like beating up and hurting people that are smaller than you.

But then I thought, im quite tall, there are a lot women smaller than me. When I see a smaller woman than me, I dont feel like hitting her or hurting her.

So it is something else with men. I think a lot of it is to do with wanting sex, and the power that women have over them in this regard.

Men want sex very very badly, women have a lot of power over men in this area. Men want women very badly, and if they cant have the women they want, some (too many) cant control their rejection and they lash out in anger at the woman.

It is their insecurity in themselves, that makes them abuse women.

You will often find that it is the men who are the most insecure in themselves that hurt and abuse women.

I think some obviously lash out in anger/hatred, due to reasons you mentioned. But for most other rapists, it's simply a matter of taking what they want without caring that it doesn't belong to them. The same mentality that allows some bastards to nick stuff that doesn't belong to them, allows other bastards to grope and worse people who don't belong to them.

It's not so much a matter of anger/hate as it is desire, with zero morals.

Desire, entitlement and control (power) seem to come up a lot. I remember a woman describing escaping a rapist and he had asked her if she was a virgin and encouraged her to fight back as he liked it that way. These men are really disturbed, but on the outside can put up a complete front.

Do you feel outrage when you see a poster exhorting you not to leave your valuables in clear sight?

Women are not expensive watches or phones, so your comparison/analogy is entirely moot. You may as well be asking “Fo you prefer Hob Nobs or Rich Tea” for all the relevance that question has.

Do you feel outrage when someone suggests not leaving an iphone on a car seat?

See above. Not relevant because women are not valuables with a monetary value that can be hidden away in glove compartments.

Be honest, if you were to hear of someone who did leave their new iphone on the car seat in a rough neighbourhood, and it got stolen, would the thought cross you mind, "Why did you leave it there?"?

Probably, it again it’s not in the least bit relevant to ACTUAL HUMAN WOMEN GETTING ATTACKED.

What aren’t you actually getting about this @BellatricksStrange? It’s alarming how little you comprehend about how women are e it objects.

I'm not comparing anything with anything. Got it?

But you are. That’s literally what you’re doing. If you weren’t comparing you’d be asking if people are outraged when short men go walking through dodgy woods at 2am for absolutely no purpose. But you’re choosing to compare women to inanimiate objects.

I really don’t know how I can explain it any clearer

Incidentally a lot of insurance is invalidated if personal belongings aren’t deemed to be rotoected properly. This is not the case when women report rapes. It’s not a policy to say “Well you just didn’t take well enough care of yourself”. Because, thankfully, authorities recognise women as people

Do you feel outrage when you see a poster exhorting you not to leave your valuables in clear sight?
Do you feel outrage when someone suggests not leaving an iphone on a car seat?
Be honest, if you were to hear of someone who did leave their new iphone on the car seat in a rough neighbourhood, and it got stolen, would the thought cross you mind, "Why did you leave it there?"?

A vagina is not an iPhone, and if you have one, it's very hard to leave the house without it.

Stop it. I don't care about how much you're embarrassing yourself, but I'm sick of being likened to an inanimate object that gets blamed for crimes upon it thanks to its mere existence. You can embarrass yourself if you like, but stop insulting women while you do it.

Ashling Murphy took precautions. It is being reported today that she fought back against her attacker with her keys.

Keys that so many women carry in our hands in the hope it might buy us some time if we are attacked.

I am so tired of men.

It’s actually unbelievable that someone is STILL comparing women’s bodily autonomy to iPhones and expensive bikes. Fucking appalling, I genuinely didn’t think people were that thick any more.

@Imayhaveerred

Ashling Murphy took precautions. It is being reported today that she fought back against her attacker with her keys.

Keys that so many women carry in our hands in the hope it might buy us some time if we are attacked.

I am so tired of men.

Me too, and men and women who will look at her situation and say “Well maybe if she’d done X Y and Z she would still be here today” BEFORE they look at her killer and say “maybe violent men should be anywhere other than in public where women are”.

Why, why, why is the onus ALWAYS first and foremost put on women to not get attacked. Why are we so afraid to say “Men: stop attacking women. Stop being part of rape culture by being friends with other men who make sexist jokes and call people out. Because they sure as hell aren’t listening to the women”

Men's rules state that poor male behaviour is women's fault (asking for it) and women's poor defences is women's fault (should have been clearer / wrong place and wrong time).

It's a new one being a type of mobile phone: Do I implant a tracker?

As plenty have said its a deeply entrenched societal issue with no quick fixes, it needs to be socially unacceptable for men to behave like it. As many pp have said 'it's a men's problem to solve' yes it is, but the reality is that too many men don't see the problem. The ones that do are seen as weak or feeble. Do we honestly believe the problem men will listen to men they see as also inferior.

Boys need strong moral men as their role models but too many have poor fathers or no fathers. If other men in their lives are also poor influences the problem will just be further entrenched. All the posters on here posting about absent, feckless, violent partners and husband's show too many men are fathers and influencing the next generations. The good men are the ones we need fathering children, being teachers, youth workers, sports coaches, bosses, not the 'macho men ' full of aggressive attitude and entitlement. Women need to be fussy about partners, parents to raise girls to raise expectations and esteem and raise boys not to listen to the arseholes. Not sure what the answer is but for sure somehow men need to accept they are the problem before they can start to solve it.

Yes, rather than "not all men", men saying "hey this is something that some of us do and must stop".

@HyacynthBucket

I think it is a deepseated hatred of women, and that it is definitely worse in Briatin than say, in southern Europe, where generally speaking men actually like women. They may be accused of being "macho" but that is more to do with themselves as men than anything to do with women. Here, particularly among upper class males in the past, nothing seems to stand between a dislike, probably based on fear, and women who take the brunt of it.

How strange that you think this. I have experienced huge (and on occasion, frightening) sexism in Southern Europe as much as in Britain (in fact, in my case more frightening) I don’t think nationality has anything to do with some men having misogynistic/sexist/violent tendencies.

BellatricksStrange

"The same mentality that allows some bastards to nick stuff that doesn't belong to them, allows other bastards to grope and worse people who don't belong to them.

It's not so much a matter of anger/hate as it is desire, with zero morals."

But women don't belong to men any more than men belong to women.

If someone abuses my husband they haven't stolen from me! It's not just about desire it's about control and, yes, anger and hatred.

Other wise how could one explain the violence, mental torture, etc done to people - women, children and men - mostly by men.

If men really think it is all about desire then they are kidding themselves. Women are not some sort of commodity owned by anyone, any more than children or men are.

What I do not understand is why men don't want to solve this problem! How is it somehow ok to be part of a demographic responsible for the vast, vast amount of violence and simply not be able to even acknowledge it, let alone want an answer.

How strange that you think this. I have experienced huge (and on occasion, frightening) sexism in Southern Europe as much as in Britain (in fact, in my case more frightening) I don’t think nationality has anything to do with some men having misogynistic/sexist/violent tendencies.

I agree my SIL is from Italy and she will agree it is much worse in Southern Europe, as it is in Eastern Europe and Russia. Toxic masculinity is a massive issue there.

@Enough4me

Yes, rather than "not all men", men saying "hey this is something that some of us do and must stop".

To be honest, I'm not going to start pandering to hurty feelings here by carefully clarifying that I know well that not all men are violent. I'm not doing that work for them. If they're not being violent because they want me to pat them on the head and tell them that they're very good and very special little boys, they're not really that much better, are they?

They may not be looking to take what they can get from women violently, they're just doing it on an emotional level instead.

I work in the legal area for a long time. Depending on your area of specialization you'll have done courses, attending seminars, cooperating with police investigations, social services, etc. One topic that comes up again is motivation and classification of offenders. Depending on where you are coming from (social science research versus legal, versus policing), there are various theories and classifications, and with some research on motivation. It's generally considered a controversial topic whit no holistic easy answer.

This perspective would be typical in my area of work for mainstream sex offenders
smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-3-sex-offender-typologies

What they do is linked to why they do it. There is no simple answer, but the patterns are there are again and again.

I can clearly power-reassurance type, they "just" rape but think they are a basically a good guy, etc. Lots of types, lots of reading, it's depressing really and I've seen little change. And these people re-offend