Why do men do this

[Tevion28]

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

Trippingslippingx1 a drink man who I only knew slightly turned up when I was babysitting at age 16. He was the boss of the mum who I was babysitting for. It later turned out they were having an affair!

I was so stupid and niece I let him in and offered him a drink!

Then he tried to kiss me. I was a very slim 16 year old and he was an adult man and I had to just cajole him out the door while the children I was babysitting were asleep upstairs.

All very scary.

@Moonface123

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

Genuine question @Moonface123 - what is wrong with hating men?

When men hate women, they want to harm them.
When women hate men, they just don’t want to be around them.
So if men are not suffering (unless you count being ignored as suffering) as a result of women hating them, what’s the problem?

Moonface123

"l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves."

I find this statement very curious.

Why would not hating men be the greatest challenge or even a priority? And how or why are these women at war with themselves?

When you say literally at war, do you mean the women are shooting, bombing, invading? Because I literally do not see that.

Or do you mean they view men as the enemy?

You see I do see a war but it's a war on women and it's been going on for millennium. But even so I don't hate all men. I have a husband, son, nephews, brothers-in-law, father-in-law etc and friends who are male and Idon't hate them.

But it seems quite fair to view random men who hurt women with disgust. And if anyone is not a man in that category then of course it is not about them.

I've just watched my lover my killer on Netflix. An episode in Nottingham with a 30 something year old mother. She was abused emotionally and physically by her husband and when he realised his control over her was slipping her killed her infront of their child.

My boyfriend lives in a rougher part of town and he will be polite and say hello to a couple of lads around the age of 30 (I call them lads because the word men doesn't suit them) they walk around all day smoking weed and up to know good. One of them hits his girlfriend. She has lost her kids and stuff due to this. But she still let's him stay and had a black eye over the new year. Its so frustrating to see him walking around getting away with it because emotionally she doesn't know how to escape and she's too scared and skint to escape.

I think there's alot of reasons that make men angry and aggressive. They are in all classes of people. Women can also be evil but it does usually seem to be males that do these cruel murders!

Cross posted with AsYouWishButtercup and totally agree with that question too?

@PleasantBirthday

Yeah, personally I think that the fact that women don't, by and large, hate men, is astonishing. And the hide of them, getting up on their hind legs going on about not all men like not killing women is something we should be grateful to them for.

The clowns.

Yep.

Men aren’t impressed with or respect
the ‘pick me’ women - they see them as the weaker little lapdogs they should be and the more women who STFU about male violence the better for them.

@Italiangreyhound

Trippingslippingx1 a drink man who I only knew slightly turned up when I was babysitting at age 16. He was the boss of the mum who I was babysitting for. It later turned out they were having an affair!

I was so stupid and niece I let him in and offered him a drink!

Then he tried to kiss me. I was a very slim 16 year old and he was an adult man and I had to just cajole him out the door while the children I was babysitting were asleep upstairs.

All very scary.

🥺

I do wonder if this one who turned up may have still been married if I am honest. I think he was also trying to have affairs.

When men hate women, they want to harm them.
When women hate men, they just don’t want to be around them.
So if men are not suffering (unless you count being ignored as suffering) as a result of women hating them, what’s the problem?

Yeah, the war business is all one way. Women, by and large, just want to be left alone by the complete thumbs. Don't want to know what they think of our appearance or presence, don't want to see their penises on the street, don't want their gropings, don't want to be intimidated for the laugh or the subject of their male bonding bants, don't want to be raped, financially abused, beaten up or killed.

If they could just leave us go about our lives in peace as we do them, there wouldn't be a problem.

Men aren’t impressed with or respect
the ‘pick me’ women - they see them as the weaker little lapdogs they should be and the more women who STFU about male violence the better for them.

Yeah, the have the same contempt for those women that they have for the others.

Have any of you watched the new Netflix series (I watched last night) about a guy who was a conman and abused loads of woman? The Pupper master?

It is a stark demonstration about how these Men are able to worm their way into womans lives.

I have seen it happen countless times to friends and also I think I have dodged a few bullets myself.

@BellatricksStrange

I am literally not. OMG I can't believe some people are just so thick.

Indeed they are. You’ve posted several times saying “Is it outrageous when someone leaves their iPhone on display and it gets stolen” on a thread about rape. If it comparing women the iPhones, what are you posting that for?! What’s your actual point?

It's a simple question: Is it offensive to suggest one modifies their behaviour due to the existence of criminals?

If by ‘behaviour’ you mean ‘going out in public’ then yes of course it’s offensive.

In the case of keeping valuables out of sight, I think society has accepted it is not offensive. So why does it become offensive when the same suggestion is made in regards to personal safety?

BECAUSE WOMEN AREN’T VALUABLES YOU ABSOLUTE MORON.

Seriously; what are you not getting?! Do you understand the difference between women and iPhones?

In fact it's not even offensive when made in regards to general personal safety, only when it's directed at women. Nobody is getting offended by being told some neighbourhoods or estates are best avoided at night. But when it's suggested that women take sensible precautions, somehow this becomes offensive. Why?

Because when women are literally being killed when having a daytime run it seems that ‘sensible precautions’ mean staying indoors. It’s putting the onus on women to behave in a way that makes sure they don’t get raped - except the ‘behave’ part means ‘doing anything at all’

Same goes in regards to victim blaming. Most people, upon hearing that someone left an iphone on a car seat and it was stolen, would think, 'Well why did they leave it there?'. And that isn't considered victim blaming.

BECAUSE WOMEN ARE NOT IPHONES

Seriously are you being obtuse? Or do you really not get it?

Question for you: If insurance companies don’t pay out if you haven’t taken the right precautions to protect your goods - for example, if you leave your front door open and get burgled - why don’t the police have this policy for rape? Why do you think that is?

I'd go so far to say that most people would question why an ordinary bloke wandered into a dangerous estate at night, and we still don't consider that victim blaming.

I hope that if he was raped there’d be nothing but sympathy, and people like you wouldn’t say ‘what was he doing there at night’

Read this slowly: being mugged for an iPhone is not the same as being raped.

Yet ask that same kind of question - in similar circumstances, ie wholly avoidable had the victim employed reasonable precautions - in regards to a woman getting attacked, especially a sexual attack, and it causes a furore.

Because women aren’t valuables or objects and being mugged is not the same as being raped. I won’t keep repeating it but I sincerely hope one day you understand this.

What is the difference?

Women aren’t iPhones. HTH

Why is it legitimate to wonder why common sense and reasonable precautions weren't employed in every other circumstance bar that of a woman getting attacked?

Because women getting attacked is not the same as being pick pocketed or having an inanimate object stolen.

And to be clear - for those who are capable or reading and comprehending - this is not to say we should have to modify our behaviour because of criminals. It's merely an acknowledgement of the accepted reality that people do, because you know, we like to keep our persons and our belongings safe

Women aren’t belongings. Vaginas being violently penetrated is not the same as a stolen phone.

Do you get it yet?

[quote BellatricksStrange]@Italiangreyhound

"The same mentality that allows some bastards to nick stuff that doesn't belong to them, allows other bastards to grope and worse people who don't belong to them.

It's not so much a matter of anger/hate as it is desire, with zero morals."

But women don't belong to men any more than men belong to women.

You misunderstood. I'm talking about the bodily autonomy of the actual victim, which is stolen by the perpetrator.

What I'm saying is that most sexual crimes are crimes of lust. The bastards just don't care that they don't have permission to get sexual gratification from their victims, just like thieves don't care that the items they desire don't belong to them.[/quote]
Rapists do not steal, it’s not theft, it’s violence. Claiming its ‘theft’ and ‘driven by lust’ (it’s about power) is hugely downplaying the severity of rape

@PleasantBirthday

They have the same contempt for pickmes as they do for woman with boundaries and standards. The woman with boundaries and standards just get away more easily. The pickmes end up justifying their behaviour and walking egg shells around it for years. They are usually elated that they have been ‘picked’ for wedding or childbearing of these horrific men. Then give it 10 years and they are discarded without a second thought.

My friend who is in her 30s had a run in with one of these last year - she was devastated he discarded her after sex after protraying he was a stable guy looking for a relationship. She done everything ‘right’ - with regards to waiting a couple of months before sex, sussed him out and had an idea of him from social media. Then the day after they had sex he done a bait and switch which was a work of art. He ghosted her, stood her up for the date planned a few days after they had sex. I said this is probably what he done to his ex wife after 10 years - be thankful it was 8 weeks. I said the best thing you done here was have standards to get discarded so promptly by this idiot. Let him wank into a sock to onlyfans.

I remember a guy from 10 YEARS ago who dated me - persued me HARD and I got a very bad vibe from him. I did not want to have sex with him after I picked up on something he said. After our 6th or 7th date he ghosted me. I was devastated at the time.

He married a pickme and of course is now rumoured to have multiple affairs - the poor woman suffered terribly from post natal depression and has a BMI of about 15. She looks like a skeleton.
Anyway, I seen him at the end of last year at an outdoor lighting event for Halloween - I am very tall and can be easily spotted in a crowd. When he seen me I could FEEL his eyes staring at me - I caught a glimpse of him and the contempt he still had in his eyes for me - oh the audiacity for not accepting your proposal for sex 10 years ago. He looked like he hated me. 🤣

These narcissistic men seem to never ever forget woman they dated. Whereas the woman seem to move on after a glass of wine and some chocolate. Yet we are gaslit into being the ‘emotional’ ones.

@Trippingslippingx1 yep I’m always confused as to why women are portrayed as the overbearing stalking psychopaths. Personally I’ve had to call the police on a few men who couldn’t take being dumped - including one who shit on my car in revenge for dumping him. As have friends. Even if there was no chemistry men’s egos are really fragile and if you say “I don’t want to see you again”, they do not like it, even if they aren’t that into you. IME.

If you believed everything you saw on TV it’s apparently women who obsess

[quote AsYouWishButtercup]@Trippingslippingx1 yep I’m always confused as to why women are portrayed as the overbearing stalking psychopaths. Personally I’ve had to call the police on a few men who couldn’t take being dumped - including one who shit on my car in revenge for dumping him. As have friends. Even if there was no chemistry men’s egos are really fragile and if you say “I don’t want to see you again”, they do not like it, even if they aren’t that into you. IME.

If you believed everything you saw on TV it’s apparently women who obsess [/quote]
I have had Men email my work email when blocked on everything, voice note me through Amazon Alexa (!) when blocked on everything, send me letters, send me parcels, send me flowers to work (all when dumped). I had one turn up to my window of my living room when it was clear I never wanted to see him again - under the pretence of ‘I wanted to make sure you are OK’. I have had them leave gifts for me at my window in creepy paper with a love note. The list continues. I have called the police twice on two seperate men.

When I have been ‘dumped’ - I just delete their contact and move on. I have never done any of the above. Not even moderately close - and I do not think any of my female friends have either.

I am so done with men. Married two abusive pricks, literally every man I've ever known has been or tried to be inappropriate with me in some way. This includes ex husband's friends, my own friend's husbands and my own so called male "friends."

I am mid 40s and I will NEVER have another relationship again. I will never share my bed with another man again.

I am attempting to raise my two sons to be very aware of how to treat women, how to conduct themselves around women, how to respect them, how to protect them. Will it work? I really don't know because I think men are genetically predisposed with a sense of entitlement that women just don't have.

While some posters have said hating men is not the answer, it's damn hard not to.

@FMSucks

I am so done with men. Married two abusive pricks, literally every man I've ever known has been or tried to be inappropriate with me in some way. This includes ex husband's friends, my own friend's husbands and my own so called male "friends."

I am mid 40s and I will NEVER have another relationship again. I will never share my bed with another man again.

I am attempting to raise my two sons to be very aware of how to treat women, how to conduct themselves around women, how to respect them, how to protect them. Will it work? I really don't know because I think men are genetically predisposed with a sense of entitlement that women just don't have.

While some posters have said hating men is not the answer, it's damn hard not to.

Preach

I have nearly been married twice (I broke off two engagements) and I could have easily been you.

I just did a post about No Contact and standards in AIBU following a discussion last night.

Anytime I see my friends getting married I feel very little happiness whatsoever and it is not because of jealousy - it is because I know 9 times out of 10 they are marrying a nine pound note. (A fake).

@FMSucks

I am so done with men. Married two abusive pricks, literally every man I've ever known has been or tried to be inappropriate with me in some way. This includes ex husband's friends, my own friend's husbands and my own so called male "friends."

I am mid 40s and I will NEVER have another relationship again. I will never share my bed with another man again.

I am attempting to raise my two sons to be very aware of how to treat women, how to conduct themselves around women, how to respect them, how to protect them. Will it work? I really don't know because I think men are genetically predisposed with a sense of entitlement that women just don't have.

While some posters have said hating men is not the answer, it's damn hard not to.

They are not genetically predisposed at all. It is society and how they are brought up. Through in some patriachy and it is little wonder Men have been led to believe that the Universe revolves around them 9 times out of 10.

The issue that we now have is that Men in their 30s 40s and 50s have realised woman out earn them, are more powerful than them, have higher intelligent and emotional intelligence and generally cope better in life. When they internalise this it is why they hate us.

@FMSucks

I am so done with men. Married two abusive pricks, literally every man I've ever known has been or tried to be inappropriate with me in some way. This includes ex husband's friends, my own friend's husbands and my own so called male "friends."

I am mid 40s and I will NEVER have another relationship again. I will never share my bed with another man again.

I am attempting to raise my two sons to be very aware of how to treat women, how to conduct themselves around women, how to respect them, how to protect them. Will it work? I really don't know because I think men are genetically predisposed with a sense of entitlement that women just don't have.

While some posters have said hating men is not the answer, it's damn hard not to.

Be fair. They've also tried hijacking and exploiting the legacy of Martin Luther King and comparing you to an inanimate communications device.

@Trippingslippingx1 - yep I only know two women who I would consider to be genuinely happily married and didn't have to lower their standards to keep the peace. Every other woman I know has sacrificed so much more than the man has ever done in the relationship.

@DrSbaitso - I remember when I separated from my ex and a woman I know (who considers herself to be a feminist) told me I was mad, that it wasn't like he was beating the shit out of me and off in the pub every night. This is where some women's bar is and where mine was for way too many years.

[quote FMSucks]@Trippingslippingx1 - yep I only know two women who I would consider to be genuinely happily married and didn't have to lower their standards to keep the peace. Every other woman I know has sacrificed so much more than the man has ever done in the relationship.

@DrSbaitso - I remember when I separated from my ex and a woman I know (who considers herself to be a feminist) told me I was mad, that it wasn't like he was beating the shit out of me and off in the pub every night. This is where some women's bar is and where mine was for way too many years.[/quote]
@FMSucks I would say I probably know about the same. 1 or 2.

@Trippingslippingx1 said "They are not genetically predisposed at all. It is society and how they are brought up" ... and I think that's a really open question without a definitive answers, but with people being passionate about their belief in a specific theory.

The Palmer/Thornill book discusses it from an evolutionary perspective, see MIT press book Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion mitpress.mit.edu/books/natural-history-rape

It's scary read, and makes me uncomfortable. I personally don't agree with it. It certainly at odds with what I'd learned in Uni with respect Groth and feminist perspective to it being all about "male power" (I don't fully subscribe to that either).

For sure things like FGM are cultural. Both some things have a strong evolutionary and biological component too (look at the stunning success rates of chemical castration, versus none)

[quote EmmotionalRescue]@Trippingslippingx1 said "They are not genetically predisposed at all. It is society and how they are brought up" ... and I think that's a really open question without a definitive answers, but with people being passionate about their belief in a specific theory.

The Palmer/Thornill book discusses it from an evolutionary perspective, see MIT press book Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion mitpress.mit.edu/books/natural-history-rape

It's scary read, and makes me uncomfortable. I personally don't agree with it. It certainly at odds with what I'd learned in Uni with respect Groth and feminist perspective to it being all about "male power" (I don't fully subscribe to that either).

For sure things like FGM are cultural. Both some things have a strong evolutionary and biological component too (look at the stunning success rates of chemical castration, versus none)[/quote]
Thanks for this - will have a read. Sounds like it will be sobering.

[quote FMSucks]@Trippingslippingx1 - yep I only know two women who I would consider to be genuinely happily married and didn't have to lower their standards to keep the peace. Every other woman I know has sacrificed so much more than the man has ever done in the relationship.

@DrSbaitso - I remember when I separated from my ex and a woman I know (who considers herself to be a feminist) told me I was mad, that it wasn't like he was beating the shit out of me and off in the pub every night. This is where some women's bar is and where mine was for way too many years.[/quote]
My vibrator doesn't go down the pub and beat me up either. Indeed, a non existent partner doesn't do those things either.

@EmmotionalRescue, I've not read the full Thornhill book "A Natural History of Rape", but have scanned chapters, read summaries, key points in other academic papers. I get what they are trying to say, but from a social perspective it's a total cop out ... I believe men are not genetically predisposed to rape, it is much more complex (does not reference much of the social science or criminal research correctly!).

While I don't like the book (I hate the premise), it is worth reading. I'd also fundamentally disagree with the standard feminist "rape is about power". Anyone actively working in this area be well aware there is a strong sexual component too.

@Trippingslippingx1, if you are interested in reading more, I'd recommend a look at Massachusetts Treatment Center Typology for Rapists [MTC-R3] ... it is an empirically validated, reliable typology for rapists and widely used.

Based on my experience, for an individual rape case, it can help generally frame what happened, how, why.