Why do men do this

[Tevion28]

Following on from the Ashling Murthy murder and the likes of the Sarah Everard I've been thinking alot as to why men do this and I can only think that they must have a deep hatred for women and feel threatened by us for some reason. What do you all think I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

@Enough4me

Desire, entitlement and control (power) seem to come up a lot. I remember a woman describing escaping a rapist and he had asked her if she was a virgin and encouraged her to fight back as he liked it that way. These men are really disturbed, but on the outside can put up a complete front.

This is so disturbing and reminds me of something that happened to me with a drunk man.

He turned up at my house drunk and honestly, before this interaction had been nothing but a gentleman. He got into my house and essentially it became apparent he was looking for sex. I managed to get him out the house politely. He said ‘are you throwing me out and screaming at me to go because I tried to rape you - because that would turn me on so much’.

I kid you not.

Next morning he apologised - but I had NEVER seen that side to him. He had been drinking since 3pm that day.

He is obviously not in my life anymore.

I am still in two minds if I should have reported this as I let him into my flat and I was younger and more naive at the time.

Honestly, I don't know, but it is frightening. And I think there is an awful lot more that goes on that is rarely seen in the public eye. If you have ever looked at the chat on Incel groups (which are massively on the rise), it is horrific. And literally hundreds of thousands of men are members. They can't all be spouting this crap in public, at least some must be hiding in plain sight, simmering with some kind of hatred of women but keeping it under wraps (for now). On a different thread a link was posted to a UK website where men rate the performance of sex workers. It made me go cold. Comments like "this one is being pimped out but she'll take it bare back" are met with "brilliant, I'll give her a go". Again, thousands and thousands of members. WTAF?? These people are all someone's son and some of them at least must be husbands and fathers. Do we just not know this is happening within our own families or friends?

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

@Buildingthefuture

Honestly, I don't know, but it is frightening. And I think there is an awful lot more that goes on that is rarely seen in the public eye. If you have ever looked at the chat on Incel groups (which are massively on the rise), it is horrific. And literally hundreds of thousands of men are members. They can't all be spouting this crap in public, at least some must be hiding in plain sight, simmering with some kind of hatred of women but keeping it under wraps (for now). On a different thread a link was posted to a UK website where men rate the performance of sex workers. It made me go cold. Comments like "this one is being pimped out but she'll take it bare back" are met with "brilliant, I'll give her a go". Again, thousands and thousands of members. WTAF?? These people are all someone's son and some of them at least must be husbands and fathers. Do we just not know this is happening within our own families or friends?

I think it is more common that we all realise.

This guy let this side slip to him after a drinking session - the hatred that flashed over his eyes towards me that night for not having sex with him was terrifying.

He was director of a company, owned a flat, had an ex wife who he was ‘amicable wife’, lots of family and friends, on social media (FB at the time) he was one of these wholesome hill walking types. He dressed well and was well articulated. I am also relatively intuitive and I could never had guessed. His apology in the morning was so sincere also.

@Moonface123

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

I agree with this. I think it is also Important to remember alot of their behaviour (not to be excused) is picked up through socialisation and other men. Lets look at Boris, trump Et al - the worlds most powerful Men who treat woman like Objects - if they can do it and still be respected enough to hold huge positions of power then why would random Kevin from Hull change his way

OP said: I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

That's a medical diagnosis that my be made on an individual basis. I've not been involved in murder cases, but you'd typically see the mitigating circumstances of drink, drugs, mental health, upbringing, etc.

In reality, when you know the details and background it's clearly driven by the work of the defense legal team. There are indeed "disorganized" offenders who do things on the spur of the moment.

However, in general the offenders are "organized". They have planned where, when, work within an area, plan what to do, follow a script, select a victim.

@Moonface123

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

No, the greatest challenge is to make it stop. Closely followed by also stopping the attempt to refocus it as a veiled admonition of women, as that one is as old as the fucking hills as well. Even if there were this imaginary trend of women hating men for it, do you think it would translate into women attacking and killing men like men currently attack and kill women?

You clearly don't realise how specious and arse about face this is and I know you never will, because that's how it is with those whose response to discussions like this is to tell women to behave themselves. But might you realise how sodding boring it is by now?

@bythebanksof

OP said: I'm not convinced that these men all have mental health problems myself.

That's a medical diagnosis that my be made on an individual basis. I've not been involved in murder cases, but you'd typically see the mitigating circumstances of drink, drugs, mental health, upbringing, etc.

In reality, when you know the details and background it's clearly driven by the work of the defense legal team. There are indeed "disorganized" offenders who do things on the spur of the moment.

However, in general the offenders are "organized". They have planned where, when, work within an area, plan what to do, follow a script, select a victim.

They are more ‘organised’ than we all realise I think.

I posted above about how one said to me that my general facts (profession, height, close family) would result in men knowing ‘this one will not stand for shit’. Which makes you realise they pick woman they percieve will be easier to coherse and mainpulate.

@Moonface123

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

Everything that is going on and things talked about on this thread: This? THIS!!? Is what you’re worried about?

Why?

Women have no power over men.
Women aren’t thread to men.
Actually, the only thing some strong women can do is saying no.
That seems to anger men.
Saying no to dating them, having sex with them, marrying them, having sons and pandering to men.
That’s it.
That is the only power women have over men.
And most women aren’t strong enough for that.

So, I’m not going to worry about men.
They know what their doing, they really do and they don’t care.
They seem to enjoy about the pain they cost on women.
So why would women have to check themselves before men do it?
Men are the problem.

Well, in answer to the original question...they do it at least in part because they know that when they do, there's an entire cohort of other...people who will use it as further ammo to tell women to be good, even focus that as the "biggest challenge". And would have us believe that that's what Martin Luther King would have wanted. So, you know, if you're a woman and you want to talk about men murdering and killing women, make sure you're not acting like a racist who treats black people like second class citizens. Because it's such a fine line to tread between the two!

King would be turning in his grave to know what people try to do with his legacy. For utter fucking shame.

Yeah, personally I think that the fact that women don't, by and large, hate men, is astonishing. And the hide of them, getting up on their hind legs going on about not all men like not killing women is something we should be grateful to them for.

The clowns.

@PleasantBirthday

Yeah, personally I think that the fact that women don't, by and large, hate men, is astonishing. And the hide of them, getting up on their hind legs going on about not all men like not killing women is something we should be grateful to them for.

The clowns.

WHY DO YOU HATE MARTIN LUTHER KING

YOU BAD PERSON

@AsYouWishButtercup

I'm not comparing anything with anything. Got it?

But you are. That’s literally what you’re doing. If you weren’t comparing you’d be asking if people are outraged when short men go walking through dodgy woods at 2am for absolutely no purpose. But you’re choosing to compare women to inanimiate objects.

I really don’t know how I can explain it any clearer

I am literally not. OMG I can't believe some people are just so thick.

It's a simple question: Is it offensive to suggest one modifies their behaviour due to the existence of criminals?

In the case of keeping valuables out of sight, I think society has accepted it is not offensive. So why does it become offensive when the same suggestion is made in regards to personal safety?

In fact it's not even offensive when made in regards to general personal safety, only when it's directed at women. Nobody is getting offended by being told some neighbourhoods or estates are best avoided at night. But when it's suggested that women take sensible precautions, somehow this becomes offensive. Why?

After all, any objection to that final example would also apply to the previous ones, so what makes this suggestion so uniquely offensive?

Same goes in regards to victim blaming. Most people, upon hearing that someone left an iphone on a car seat and it was stolen, would think, 'Well why did they leave it there?'. And that isn't considered victim blaming.

I'd go so far to say that most people would question why an ordinary bloke wandered into a dangerous estate at night, and we still don't consider that victim blaming.

Yet ask that same kind of question - in similar circumstances, ie wholly avoidable had the victim employed reasonable precautions - in regards to a woman getting attacked, especially a sexual attack, and it causes a furore.

What is the difference? Why is it legitimate to wonder why common sense and reasonable precautions weren't employed in every other circumstance bar that of a woman getting attacked?

And to be clear - for those who are capable or reading and comprehending - this is not to say we should have to modify our behaviour because of criminals. It's merely an acknowledgement of the accepted reality that people do, because you know, we like to keep our persons and our belongings safe.

@Italiangreyhound

"The same mentality that allows some bastards to nick stuff that doesn't belong to them, allows other bastards to grope and worse people who don't belong to them.

It's not so much a matter of anger/hate as it is desire, with zero morals."

But women don't belong to men any more than men belong to women.

You misunderstood. I'm talking about the bodily autonomy of the actual victim, which is stolen by the perpetrator.

What I'm saying is that most sexual crimes are crimes of lust. The bastards just don't care that they don't have permission to get sexual gratification from their victims, just like thieves don't care that the items they desire don't belong to them.

@Moonface123

l think the greatest challenge is to not allow it to change you into a hater of all men, there seems to be a trend of women literally at war with all males, l find these same women are also very much at war with themselves. You will never win or make positive progress fighting hate with hate. Martin Luther King had the intelligence , courage , attitude and state of mind to realise that.

No, the greatest challenge is to KEEP WOMEN SAFE.

I don’t give a fuck about men.

BellatricksStrange

"You misunderstood. I'm talking about the bodily autonomy of the actual victim, which is stolen by the perpetrator."

I don't think that language it is at all helpful. It's like calling a murderer a thief because they steal a life. How is being called a thief instead of a murder or rapist at all helpful.

In the case of keeping valuables out of sight, I think society has accepted it is not offensive. So why does it become offensive when the same suggestion is made in regards to personal safety?

Because my vagina isn't an iPhone, you...person, and it's very hard to get anywhere if I don't take it with me!

Tbh, I do truly feel that men (all men to some level) are fucked up. Genuinely. For a variety of reasons.

I do think men are vile.

@Quirkyme

Tbh, I do truly feel that men (all men to some level) are fucked up. Genuinely. For a variety of reasons.

I do think men are vile.

No, they aren't all. Definitely not.

But the proportion who are aren't this vanishing minority that don't have any real impact on women.

Dr Sbaitso

You don't think so? Whilst not all go around murdering women, I do feel for a multitude of reasons, men are fucked up on varying levels in different ways.

Society, the way they've been socialised, etc etc etc, in addition to how they've been brought up, environment , culture etc.

I do think men are on the spectrum of fucked up, some less fucked up than others.

Also Dr Sbaitso,

Would you explain what you mean by "But the proportion who are aren't this vanishing minority that don't have any real impact on women."?

@Quirkyme

Also Dr Sbaitso,

Would you explain what you mean by "But the proportion who are aren't this vanishing minority that don't have any real impact on women."?

I mean that I don't think all men are fucked up. Far from it.

But I do think that the proportion who are is larger than a lot of people like to think, and isn’t this vanishingly tiny percentage that isn't worth worrying about.

Gotcha Dr Sbaitso

Yeah I agree with you.