AIBU - DP turned into a covid denier

[Littletownofbirthdaywoes]

So, DP initially followed all the rules, had first 2 vaccines, but has increasingly been swept up by social media "experts" claiming that covid is all a plan to exert control, that for 99.9% of the population it's nothing more than a cold, that the figures are manipulated (everyone apparently dies "with" covid and not "of" covid and actually die of something else. I know. Don't get me started.)

He is refusing to get the booster but seems to think that we will be able to go away this year, abroad - I have pointed out that most countries will expect the booster to be able to claim being fully vaccinated but he refuses to think that this means him, too.

I declined to argue against him over the weekend, there is no point, but I have previously pointed out that I am actually vulnerable due to underlying causes, so I will continue to follow the rules and have vaccinations if deemed necessary.

This has been getting worse over the past weeks and I just don't like it any more. I don't seem to be able to agree with any of his views anymore, we both used to be more middle of the road, but now he seems to be becoming increasingly right wing in his views. I cannot and will not get on board with this, I am more left of centre and he does not like this at all. He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence. He thinks that I won't argue as I don't have an argument but it's simply because there is no point. It just causes bad feeling and increasing frustration on his part that I won't subscribe to his views.

We do not have children together, but both have kids, all elder teens or young adults. We are at the point where we can start doing things for ourselves without them. I used to love spending time with him but that is all changing as he delights in pointing out all that is wrong with the narrow world that he lives in (increasingly too "woke" and people need to "grow up and live in the real world"). Initially I figured it was all just a phase against lockdowns and wanting some life back, but as life is returning it just seems to be getting worse.

My refusal to engage with him in argument (so he can feel right and superior) or agreeing with him (so that he is right and I had to give in to him and confirm this) seems to be making it worse but I am not changing my stance just to placate him.

We went through a rough patch last year. Things have been better, he thinks that he is engaging more with me and therefore we as a couple are good, but in reality his views are really putting me off spending the rest of my life with him. AIBU to think that this is a deal breaker for me? Would it be for you?

I am a regular, have nc'd because I posted here for support last year when things weren't great, I used some of the advise and we did seem to get somewhere, but now I am not so sure.

I am no covid denier and he sounds ott but each country has their own rules about what vaccine you have to have atm some do want the booster some dont

Also the numbers do state died with covid in the lat 28 days not of covid-im not denying people dont die of covid by the way

He sounds “slightly right” like Ghengis Khan was. I would find his need to constantly overpower you with his OPINION (because it’s so very valuable to him, it gets capitals, obvs) a form of domestic violence. You have made it clear that you don’t wish to engage and this is unacceptable to him, so he keeps coming back for more, not taking no for an answer.
Deeply and irredeemably unattractive.

Of course hes being unreasonable just saying you should agree with hm and not open to other views

If I were you I’d call time on the relationship. When Covid is no longer the main issue of the day he’ll move on to the next right wing/QAnon talking point. I just could not share a bed with a man who thought Trump was the bees knees and that there were too many black and brown people on the TV. Leave him to his angry conspiracies.

The right-wing ranting and talking over you would be a dealbreaker for me without the conspiracy theories, I'm afraid.

However, I have had 2 friends who (quite separately, and long before Covid) got like this. In both cases, they were in the early stages of mental illness, and the adoption of weird conspiracy theories was just the start of their delusional thinking.

If it's a mental health thing, then it's not really his fault and he needs help.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

I’m sorry, birds don’t exist? Is that a typo or something they actually believe? What do they think when looking at a bird?

They just look at a space where there is no bird. Then they argue that they are basing their opinion on the 'no-bird' evidence, which is every bit as valid (if not more so) than the bird evidence, which has probably been manipulated anyway.

Something to do with the fact that, if the earth is flat, then they would have to explain how come birds don't just fly off into space and perish when they reach the edge of the earth?

If you don't want to be vaxxed: your body, your choice,

If you want to live in a world where most people disagree with you then take the consequences.

Novak Djokovic is currently learning this lesson.

I have no time whatsoever for these Covid denying or antivax twats.

Stupid, dangerous, ignorant and arrogant - their posturing can potentially kill.

You really have to be quite thick to insist stupid conspiracy theories that originate from YouTube and Facebook via a losers bedroom are fact, and trump scientific evidence.

I'm not sure where this insistence on challenging science has come from, and you can bet if these scumbags end up in hospital, they won't be refusing treatment - of which they ' don't know what's in it' .

@VelvetChairGirl

its up to you if someone having a different opinion is a deal breaker but can you blame him?, how many parties did boris Johnson have over the lockdowns and restrictions, how many trips to castles.

and you will never be fully vaccinated, its one booster after another despite the new strain being 70% milder then delta, and he is partially right in that most deaths have been the vulnerable with comorbidity, it has 3.4% death rate.

the vaccines dont stop you catching and spreading it anyway so its upto him if he has had enough of it all or not, if he cant go on holiday thats his choice, nothing stopping you going but if your that frightened of the virus I am surprised you'd want to seeing as it was fully jabbed up, vaccine passported and tested people who brought the latest strain over here from Africa in the first place. (and Delta came from India off the backs of international travelers too).

Well, yes, you can blame him for having opinions that have no basis in evidence. The fact that Johnson is a bloody idiot doesn't change that.

I really don't understand the argument about having to repeat boosters. What is the problem with it? Viruses mutate, we need different vaccines to deal with them. So far as I know, there aren't loads of conspiracy theories around the fact that we need different flu vaccinations every winter.

The comorbidity argument is a nonsense, too. Are we seriously saying that, isn't because someone who dies with or of covid also has another condition, they don't deserve to live? Bear in mind that the majority of the co-morbidities are perfectly manageable conditions such as mild asthma and diabetes, and indeed I believe include things like learning disabilities which won't in themselves affect people's lifespans at all.

We know the vaccines substantially reduce both infectiousness and the strength of the illness if you catch covid. You just have to look at the fall in the death and hospitalisation rates for evidence of that. It's not a matter of being frightened, it's a matter of simple common sense.

I didn't even see the ' pro Donald Trump' bit.

Sounds like your other half just feels empowered now to let out all the bigotry , racism and misogyny he has carried inside him but previously held back

My husband and I have different views on this, but get along still. We’ve been married over 20 years and we’ve disagreed before.

I think people are forgetting how to disagree or have varying opinions or shift opinion.

Just say fine. You also don’t need to convince him to think differently or label him whatever. Just say you’ve looked into things and decided to have boosters, but that doesn’t mean he has to. This won’t all last forever.

You first paragraph sums up antivaxx and far-right crap that's being widely circulated in USA. Politics, Health services, and public record keeping, in USA are very different . It's a federal states system, no national health service, huge country and population.

Here in UK, the set up is entirely different. Multi-party politics. Disposable PM . We have the NHS , which is a vast unified system of medical data and record keeping covering all four member counties Here, we know exactly how many people are in hospital in ICU and why. Every UK death is recorded by the same medical criteria into the same public data system. There is no financial or political reason or incentive for UK doctors to falsify those records.

As a result, the UK is a global fore-runner in accurate, credible covid and vaccination fact finding, recording, treatment and research.

DH needs to focus on UK research results, easily available online.

This reminds me of my father.

He’s fallen down the conspiracy rabbit hole in the last 5 years or so. We always had divergent political views but it wasn’t a big problem as we weren’t locked in a permanent debate.

However, these days, conspiracy theories (or far right politics) are the only things he’s capable of talking about, he is constantly on his soap box, trying to get people to engage with him. When they do, he gets very aggressive very quickly.

You can try and ignore him but it’s very difficult, as he simply won’t allow you to chance topic. It makes me dread visiting my parents, particularly with my partner.

Even pre-COVID, my parents had stopped going out, because my mother found it too embarrassing when he interacted with their friends (back then it was all global warming, moon landing and QAnon stuff).

I wish I had a solution but I don’t. He’s just becoming more extreme and angry over time.

If we could just agree to disagree, or declare certain topics off limits, I’d be delighted - unfortunately it has consumed him.

*Well, yes, you can blame him for having opinions that have no basis in evidence. The fact that Johnson is a bloody idiot doesn't change that.

I really don't understand the argument about having to repeat boosters. What is the problem with it? Viruses mutate, we need different vaccines to deal with them. So far as I know, there aren't loads of conspiracy theories around the fact that we need different flu vaccinations every winter.

The comorbidity argument is a nonsense, too. Are we seriously saying that, isn't because someone who dies with or of covid also has another condition, they don't deserve to live? Bear in mind that the majority of the co-morbidities are perfectly manageable conditions such as mild asthma and diabetes, and indeed I believe include things like learning disabilities which won't in themselves affect people's lifespans at all.

We know the vaccines substantially reduce both infectiousness and the strength of the illness if you catch covid. You just have to look at the fall in the death and hospitalisation rates for evidence of that. It's not a matter of being frightened, it's a matter of simple common sense.*

No I am saying those who are not vulnerable shouldnt have to get vaccines and boosters, no one makes you get the flu jab. and it clearly doesn't stop the virus spreading, you cant blame the vaccinated for letting 2 strains into the country when only the vaccinated are allowed to travel.

of course the funny thing is the really vulnerable like my dad cant have the vaccine because of the risks. so he and many others have been thrown under the bus in the name of protecting the vulnerable, the efficiency of the vaccine is based on how effective your immune system is anyway.

All this "birds don't exist" or "Elvis is alive" crap exists only to discredit people with genuine concerns.
Like - can you actually guarantee that the jab won't harm or kill me? It made my loved ones very unwell. But no, it's all "one in a million/just a coincidence/don't be selfish" tripe.

The comorbidity argument is a nonsense, too.

Some might argue ignorance and guillability are comorbidities...

All this "birds don't exist" or "Elvis is alive" crap exists only to discredit people with genuine concerns.
Like - can you actually guarantee that the jab won't harm or kill me? It made my loved ones very unwell. But no, it's all "one in a million/just a coincidence/don't be selfish" tripe.
No, nobody can guarantee that the jab won’t harm or kill you.

But it is far less likely to do so than if you catch COVID while unvaccinated.

as for lower deaths how many vulnerable people are left in carehomes the tories and a good go at killing them off under the first lockdown and put DNRs on those with special needs in care.

I have lost 2 elderly relatives over this (my mother and aunt) neither from covid but both from lockdown being unable to seek medical help as unable to see GPs.

I think the most of the most vulnerable are already dead.

someone who believes that they are superior because they are white and have a penis?
That's the deal breaker, right there in black and white.

@TheViewFromTheCheapSeats

My husband and I have different views on this, but get along still. We’ve been married over 20 years and we’ve disagreed before.

I think people are forgetting how to disagree or have varying opinions or shift opinion.

Just say fine. You also don’t need to convince him to think differently or label him whatever. Just say you’ve looked into things and decided to have boosters, but that doesn’t mean he has to. This won’t all last forever.

I do agree people should be accepting of others views.

But surely your husband doesn't insist on having debates with you, and insist that his views are right and superior?

OP has already said that she was happy to "agree to disagree". OP's DP is the one who is forcing his views on her or sulking if she doesn't want to engage?

@carolsforxmas

His views wouldn't make a difference to me, each to their own. However, the constant lecturing on those opinions and the fact that his decisions would probably impact where we could go and the life we would have together would be dealbreakers.

His views on Trump would have finished me off before we got to Covid

@dottiedodah

My friend also thinks Trump was brilliant ! She is such a nice girl normally ,I enjoyed chatting with her .I now seem to have a never ending list of "information" sent to be from right wing doctors ,journalists and so on .Try to ignore most TBH. Does anyone know how to delete Whats App messages ,without the sender knowing? Just fed up of piles of messages in my account! Dont want to fall out but just too much!

Click on the little arrow top right and 'delete for me'

But is it worth carrying on with someone so far apart from you?

What everyone believes is “right” has been shown throughout history to invariably not be correct. Everyone believed in god until we got science. Give it 100 years and quantum physics or whatever will overturn whatever we think we know now.

The beef is the fact he has to be right, Why is that? You are supposed to be in the marriage together. He’s massively disrespecting you. It’s a worry. Point that out to him.

OP "What I don't want is his new ideology being talked AT me without the ability for me to present the other side"

That's the key really. I can agree to disagree but I can't cope with people banging on.

Side note - the bird thing must be a joke, no one thinks that!

Totally know how you feel, OP. My DP has also fallen down the Covid conspiracy rabbit hole.

I get daily lectures updates on what the YouTube and Facebook experts are saying this time... (though of course, denies that he's getting his "information" from there), and "Dr Fauci" has become the most talked about person in our house!

A debate cannot be had about the subject oh no... because "one day the real truth will come out, just wait and see...."