AIBU - DP turned into a covid denier

[Littletownofbirthdaywoes]

So, DP initially followed all the rules, had first 2 vaccines, but has increasingly been swept up by social media "experts" claiming that covid is all a plan to exert control, that for 99.9% of the population it's nothing more than a cold, that the figures are manipulated (everyone apparently dies "with" covid and not "of" covid and actually die of something else. I know. Don't get me started.)

He is refusing to get the booster but seems to think that we will be able to go away this year, abroad - I have pointed out that most countries will expect the booster to be able to claim being fully vaccinated but he refuses to think that this means him, too.

I declined to argue against him over the weekend, there is no point, but I have previously pointed out that I am actually vulnerable due to underlying causes, so I will continue to follow the rules and have vaccinations if deemed necessary.

This has been getting worse over the past weeks and I just don't like it any more. I don't seem to be able to agree with any of his views anymore, we both used to be more middle of the road, but now he seems to be becoming increasingly right wing in his views. I cannot and will not get on board with this, I am more left of centre and he does not like this at all. He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence. He thinks that I won't argue as I don't have an argument but it's simply because there is no point. It just causes bad feeling and increasing frustration on his part that I won't subscribe to his views.

We do not have children together, but both have kids, all elder teens or young adults. We are at the point where we can start doing things for ourselves without them. I used to love spending time with him but that is all changing as he delights in pointing out all that is wrong with the narrow world that he lives in (increasingly too "woke" and people need to "grow up and live in the real world"). Initially I figured it was all just a phase against lockdowns and wanting some life back, but as life is returning it just seems to be getting worse.

My refusal to engage with him in argument (so he can feel right and superior) or agreeing with him (so that he is right and I had to give in to him and confirm this) seems to be making it worse but I am not changing my stance just to placate him.

We went through a rough patch last year. Things have been better, he thinks that he is engaging more with me and therefore we as a couple are good, but in reality his views are really putting me off spending the rest of my life with him. AIBU to think that this is a deal breaker for me? Would it be for you?

I am a regular, have nc'd because I posted here for support last year when things weren't great, I used some of the advise and we did seem to get somewhere, but now I am not so sure.

He is entitled to his opinion, as you are.

@VelvetChairGirl

its up to you if someone having a different opinion is a deal breaker but can you blame him?, how many parties did boris Johnson have over the lockdowns and restrictions, how many trips to castles.

and you will never be fully vaccinated, its one booster after another despite the new strain being 70% milder then delta, and he is partially right in that most deaths have been the vulnerable with comorbidity, it has 3.4% death rate.

the vaccines dont stop you catching and spreading it anyway so its upto him if he has had enough of it all or not, if he cant go on holiday thats his choice, nothing stopping you going but if your that frightened of the virus I am surprised you'd want to seeing as it was fully jabbed up, vaccine passported and tested people who brought the latest strain over here from Africa in the first place. (and Delta came from India off the backs of international travelers too).

Did you go the the Daily Mail school of virology and medicine! 😂

@WonderfulYou

Someone I work with and a friend of mine has turned like this over the past few weeks.

It’s quite concerning as they don’t know each other but both happen to believe the same thing about covid as well as starting to believe the earth is flat and that birds don’t exist - I’m wondering if they are reading things on Facebook or something which is almost brainwashing them.

I couldn’t be with someone with his views but I would also be concerned as it sounds like he is brainwashed.

Birds don’t exist?! 👀

I'm not going to offer any advice but I'm in the same boat. My OH is "over it" now and people have to get on with it. Refused to isolate if required over Christmas as he's been vaccinated. Like it's the holy grail. Think it's a selfish middle aged man thing and not uncommon with my peer group. None of the men like being told what to do by Nicola Sturgeon!

The longer this goes on, the longer the "covid deniers" (e.g. people using critical thinking) look more sane than the people who apparently want a perpetual lockdown.

@Skeumorph

Yes, of course this should be a dealbreaker. I'm not sure that you as a couple are 'good' - and tbh he sounds irrational and fairly unpleasant, if his expectation is that you should agree and placate him in whatever opinion he has, so that he can feel 'right and superior'.

That's not a good man and not a good relationship.

You have no real ties, so think hard about whether you would be better off cutting your losses here.

And you think OP sounds any better?

So he thinks all the leaders of the world had a meeting and decided to create a virus but they decided that Oz and NZ would be safe. UK would be fucked. Then all agreed to obliterate the economy and spend tons on vaccines?

What did the UK etc agree with the taliban on this one? Did they have a decent agreement?

This will become like normal flu one day and then what will he say? In England we barely have restrictions!

"covid deniers" (e.g. people using critical thinking)

"critical thinking" - oh that's really made me laugh.

You need to engage with him in debate and challenge his views.

I agree in principle, but in reality many of these people are beyond rational debate. I offered an acquaintance a link to the BMJ to support an assertion, which was firmly rejected because "they're on Google". He believes that "Google are in on it", so anything that comes up on a Google search is not reliable. I tried to explain that Google searches almost every part of the internet, but any explanation I put forward was met with "they're all in on it".

It's a smart move by those motivated to spread lies - convince people that all the search engines are manipulating them.

@AledsiPad

The longer this goes on, the longer the "covid deniers" (e.g. people using critical thinking) look more sane than the people who apparently want a perpetual lockdown.

Trouble is some people's ideas of "critical thinking" extends purely to watching/ reading biased and just plain wrong information on the internet. The arrogance of some people thinking they know more than people who have spent years studying and researching the subject to an incredibly high level is astounding.

I had a very close friend go this way. Thing is, it started out at slightly paranoid skepticism, but very rapidly turned into out and out fascim. So it was a big fat no from me. I've since heard a lot about trying not to turn your back on someone undergoing what is essentially a sort of cultist brainwashing, but to be honest, I just don't feel I owe this person being harangued on a weekly basis about wealthy elites eating babies, as my children's grandparents only narrowly escaped the last round of this with his life and they have no further surviving family from that branch. Nor do I want my children anywhere near her own child earnestly explaining that the Wall between the US and Mexico was necessary as Mexicans are diseased and that Donald Trump won the last election but has been removed from power by the aforementioned Wealthy Elite. You know, the ones that look walk and talk just like my children's grandparent.

So my view was: her fascism is not my problem to solve and I removed myself from her life

I get what you're saying, and I had all three jabs, but, whatever the consequences, that'll be it. The third one made me sick enough to be hospitalised. So, no more. If that means I can't travel or go to restaurants, etc I'll have to live with that.

@grapewine

I get what you're saying, and I had all three jabs, but, whatever the consequences, that'll be it. The third one made me sick enough to be hospitalised. So, no more. If that means I can't travel or go to restaurants, etc I'll have to live with that.

Is the hospitalisation not enough for you to be granted a medical exemption for any further jabs?

Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one. But what would piss me right off is him taking over me, this isn't a healthy debate, it's him trying to bully you into submission. I could never talk to my exh about politics because he'd do the same. Talk loudly or over me so I'd agree with him. He wouldn't even 'agree to disagree'. In the end I simply refused to discuss it with him, which of course he didn't like either as he couldn't 'win' that way

I imagine it's like being married to Laurence Fox, but without any of the privileges that go with it - like massive wealth.

@AledsiPad

The longer this goes on, the longer the "covid deniers" (e.g. people using critical thinking) look more sane than the people who apparently want a perpetual lockdown.

I don't think anyones calling for a lockdown now, are they?

Covid deniers aren't critical thinkers.

As a couple, you are no longer on the same page. You don't have the same outlook on life any more, and you don't share the same approach to it.

It doesn't really matter whether covid caused that or whether it happened naturally or for any other cause. This is the reason that people split up. They are no longer in accord, they can no longer communicate comfortably.

So yes, it looks like it's time for you to split up, and the responses on here that are more about covid than your relationship, are pointless. Because that's not what the decision is ultimately about.

He is entitled to his opinion although I agree covid exists I’m sorry but I believe they have gone over the top it’s a fact they have used propaganda to Incite fear into the masses. Dying with and off are two different things as well. People have died of covid but so they have died of flu and many other things. They have manipulated the data as well. They have lied and told you to do one thing whilst they do another. Vaccine passports are useless and these vaccines are questionable . Sorry but he isn’t the only one by far who have started to question now. You don’t agree with him and his views then I yes a dealbreaker but he is absolutely entitled to his views and his right not to have another booster in his body. It’s his right not yours. Go your separate ways

@BoredZelda

I suspect this is an example of what the OP is talking about. Why are have you brought this back to politics and pandemic response?

Because that is how conversation works. One person makes a point and the other person counters it. My response to the OP's actual point can be found upthread if you are really interested in it.

You know what you’re right, apologies.

Given how this thread now seems into x vs x I’m clearly waaaay off the mark that the OP’s actual problem was the subject up for discussion.

Is the hospitalisation not enough for you to be granted a medical exemption for any further jabs?

I doubt it, but I should definitely find out. Thanks for mentioning it, hadn't thought of that.

@ThePinkTeapot Yes, your opinion is entirely valid if it is what you believe in. I could attempt to have a healthy discussion about why i believe otherwise but you don't have to entertain it or take part.

@CorrBlimeyGG It doesn't matter at all - it's his opinion and he is entitled to it.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan
Yes, all opinions are equal, and do deserve to be treated with equal respect because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. He might be being a dick - it's still her choice whether to put up with it or not. He's making his choices for him - I'm CEV and fully vaccinated, DP isn't and hasn't had one and doesn't intend to. I fully support his right to choose just as he supported mine even though he doesn't believe in vaccines.

It is her choice whether to fight for her marriage or her beliefs, it's all about choice. She doesn't have to put up with it, she's entitled to think it's not working and to stay or leave or be indifferent.

I find it so concerning so many people can't accept other people have the right to an opinion that doesn't mirror theirs. OP has a choice she just needs to make it.

OP it sounds like you've tried really hard to make this marriage work. I think it's okay to stop now. It's not true that you can just change people's minds with rational argument, once people start to buy into more extremist thinking then you need a special kind of deprogramming approach, and it will not definitely work.

Did you go the the Daily Mail school of virology and medicine!

no I think that would be more up your street, I go by reading the BMJ, pharmaceutical companies press releases and shareholder information etc.

why the hell would I pay any attention to any right wing rags/TV in this country they have an agenda to push and only add facts that suits them when they suit them which is why everyone was 3 months behind in this country from the start "dont wear masks they dont work" morphed into "mandatory to wear masks" no pandemic plan and then a hastily cobbled together one based on flu modeling.

It that old male issue, the need for control. He needs control in the face of the virus which is what these social media misinformation feeds exploit, and more to the point he needs to control you, and this nonsense is a handy tool for doing that. He has found a tribe to support him in that. Definitely time to distance yourself as it is only going to get worse.

@VelvetChairGirl

Did you go the the Daily Mail school of virology and medicine!

no I think that would be more up your street, I go by reading the BMJ, pharmaceutical companies press releases and shareholder information etc.

why the hell would I pay any attention to any right wing rags/TV in this country they have an agenda to push and only add facts that suits them when they suit them which is why everyone was 3 months behind in this country from the start "dont wear masks they dont work" morphed into "mandatory to wear masks" no pandemic plan and then a hastily cobbled together one based on flu modeling.

Of course you do.....