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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - DP turned into a covid denier

196 replies

Littletownofbirthdaywoes · 17/01/2022 11:01

So, DP initially followed all the rules, had first 2 vaccines, but has increasingly been swept up by social media "experts" claiming that covid is all a plan to exert control, that for 99.9% of the population it's nothing more than a cold, that the figures are manipulated (everyone apparently dies "with" covid and not "of" covid and actually die of something else. I know. Don't get me started.)

He is refusing to get the booster but seems to think that we will be able to go away this year, abroad - I have pointed out that most countries will expect the booster to be able to claim being fully vaccinated but he refuses to think that this means him, too.

I declined to argue against him over the weekend, there is no point, but I have previously pointed out that I am actually vulnerable due to underlying causes, so I will continue to follow the rules and have vaccinations if deemed necessary.

This has been getting worse over the past weeks and I just don't like it any more. I don't seem to be able to agree with any of his views anymore, we both used to be more middle of the road, but now he seems to be becoming increasingly right wing in his views. I cannot and will not get on board with this, I am more left of centre and he does not like this at all. He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence. He thinks that I won't argue as I don't have an argument but it's simply because there is no point. It just causes bad feeling and increasing frustration on his part that I won't subscribe to his views.

We do not have children together, but both have kids, all elder teens or young adults. We are at the point where we can start doing things for ourselves without them. I used to love spending time with him but that is all changing as he delights in pointing out all that is wrong with the narrow world that he lives in (increasingly too "woke" and people need to "grow up and live in the real world"). Initially I figured it was all just a phase against lockdowns and wanting some life back, but as life is returning it just seems to be getting worse.

My refusal to engage with him in argument (so he can feel right and superior) or agreeing with him (so that he is right and I had to give in to him and confirm this) seems to be making it worse but I am not changing my stance just to placate him.

We went through a rough patch last year. Things have been better, he thinks that he is engaging more with me and therefore we as a couple are good, but in reality his views are really putting me off spending the rest of my life with him. AIBU to think that this is a deal breaker for me? Would it be for you?

I am a regular, have nc'd because I posted here for support last year when things weren't great, I used some of the advise and we did seem to get somewhere, but now I am not so sure.

OP posts:
HereticFanjo · 17/01/2022 12:19

@PleasantBirthday

Neither of you is right or wrong just different opinions and perspectives taken from various sources.

Yeah, I mean one is all the reputable health organisations and governments in the world, the other is internet conspiracists and people who think that injecting bleach is a good idea. Who could hold the scales of judgement between them?

😂😂😂
BoredZelda · 17/01/2022 12:19

Frankly, i agree with your husband. This has all gone waaaaay to far and is no longer about our health (if it ever was)

Yep, yep. I hear ya. Governments all around the world have taken on masses of national debt and tanked their economies for some reason that most people are just to stupid to work out.

ToykotoLosAngeles · 17/01/2022 12:21

@Bouncer500

I could not be arsed with someone who was terrified of Coronavirus.
Not sure this is relevant given all the OP says is:

I am actually vulnerable due to underlying causes, so I will continue to follow the rules and have vaccinations if deemed necessary.

Not exactly quaking in her boots.

Cornettoninja · 17/01/2022 12:21

@PleasantBirthday

Neither of you is right or wrong just different opinions and perspectives taken from various sources.

Yeah, I mean one is all the reputable health organisations and governments in the world, the other is internet conspiracists and people who think that injecting bleach is a good idea. Who could hold the scales of judgement between them?

On a very basic level two average people can’t replicate the data collection capabilities, verification or interpretation to the standard any professional scientist/medic or institution can. Two average people have fairly equal opinions based off the work of others and the trust they have in those people.

I agree with you btw, but ultimately if someone decides that my evidence isn’t right/trustworthy there is nothing I can do as an individual to definitively prove them wrong and vice versa.

But that’s why, if I were the OP and couldn’t get him to agree just to make the subject completely off limits, I would have to seriously consider continuing the relationship. Not only can I personally not prove my stance he can’t prove his. If he can’t accept that or stf up about it then it just becomes corrosive because his only available tool is to keep up a verbal campaign.

MorningStarling · 17/01/2022 12:21

You need to engage with him in debate and challenge his views. Explain to him that you prefer to have a different style of debate and that each of you should be allowed to speak for a certain length of time without the other interrupting. They can take notes and ask questions at the end.

Generally with people like this, who've based their decisions and opinions on "evidence" they've read, can be turned around by rational argument. (Or maybe they'll persuade you.) Avoiding engaging with them just leads them to retreat into an echo chamber of people who agree with them, meaning they become more certain of their views.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Silence is violence and all that crap.

WhereYouLeftIt · 17/01/2022 12:22

"He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence."

And there's the real dealbreaker right there. You are not permitted an opinion if it differs from his. You are not a person in your own right, just a mirror and an echo of him. Unacceptable. There is no respect towards you. He and his opinions are all that matter to him.

"We went through a rough patch last year. Things have been better, he thinks that he is engaging more with me and therefore we as a couple are good, but in reality his views are really putting me off spending the rest of my life with him. AIBU to think that this is a deal breaker for me? Would it be for you?"

YANBU, and yes his behaviour would be a dealbreaker for me too. I think it's time to tell him that. I'd tell him that his constant attempts to browbeat me - to bully me - into voicing agreement for something that I don't agree with has shown me that we have become incompatible. You're no longer travelling on the same road, and the divergence is increasing and shown me that it's time to look at splitting up,

It's very sad, but he is changing in a way that you are not. Change is not a bad thing in itself - indeed, we all change throughout our lives. We are the sum of our experiences, and we are always gathering new experiences (even if those experiences are humdrum and more-of-the-same). But - you are not both changing alongside each other, you are growing apart. At some point, the distance will be to great.

Cornettoninja · 17/01/2022 12:24

@BoredZelda

Frankly, i agree with your husband. This has all gone waaaaay to far and is no longer about our health (if it ever was)

Yep, yep. I hear ya. Governments all around the world have taken on masses of national debt and tanked their economies for some reason that most people are just to stupid to work out.

I suspect this is an example of what the OP is talking about. Why are have you brought this back to politics and pandemic response?

That’s not what the OP was asking about was it?

millymolls · 17/01/2022 12:27

There is no ‘the science’ there are a range of scientific views and indeed many eminent virologists disagree with the mainstream govt advisors ( and who) re threat levels and how to tackle indeed many stating they fruitility of restrictions
We should allow questions and debates and that’s what science is about and it’s dangerous that these are being shut down

Most people who end up Ill are old or medically compromised with co morbidities—- this is not lies it’s published data and that vast majority of healthy adults even without vaccine would only suffer relatively minor symptoms. Even Chris whitty states that! Of course the issue is people dont know who will be the anomaly or outlier to that and become very Ill or die.

Unfortunately I think the reality at least for now is people will need endless boosters to travel so you will be restricted to places you can go. Personally I don’t agree with but it’s what it is at least for now so if that’s important to you and he can’t go then yes that will be an issue
Btw I’m not A covid denier nor anti vax but completely disagree with restrictions and vaccine passports

BoredZelda · 17/01/2022 12:28

I suspect this is an example of what the OP is talking about. Why are have you brought this back to politics and pandemic response?

Because that is how conversation works. One person makes a point and the other person counters it. My response to the OP's actual point can be found upthread if you are really interested in it.

ravenmum · 17/01/2022 12:28

Can you not just book a nice holiday, then when he's turned back at the airport you can go on your own? Just make sure you go through first! Might give you time to think.

He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence
I used to love spending time with him but that is all changing as he delights in pointing out all that is wrong with the narrow world that he lives in
Sounds like you have both lost respect for and interest in one another?

piney07 · 17/01/2022 12:29

He’s wrong about travel, in Europe you currently either need your last vaccine to have been within 6 months to get into many bars and restaurants.

YANBU to not see a future with him if he continues to argue with you, and I can definitely see how they would be off putting.

However I can also see that the way governments have handled this has been not good in many ways and I can definitely see the argument about the deaths with vs of covid.

Have you told him how much the topic upsets you? I would ask him if his views on ghe covid response (hopefully almost over now anyway so in a few years will be a non issue all going well) is worth more to him than your relationship (hopefully a life long thing)? Ask if he can just give the views a rest and start being interested in alternative topics - for the sake of your relationship.

I’m not sure how I would deal with a general shift into being really right wing though as that’s a bit more fundamental…

MumW · 17/01/2022 12:30

YANBU to consider that this relationship is no longer working.
You don't sound in the slightest bit happy so, unless you can see him mellowing and your feelings towards him improving, YADNU to leave.

AtrociousCircumstance · 17/01/2022 12:33

Deal breaker. Same as if he was suddenly racist.

His views sound moronic and his mode of expression/'debate' toxic and boring.

Unsure33 · 17/01/2022 12:33

look even if you agreed that for 99 % of people covid can have very serious health problems or die - then that is still 710000 people!

and if that is per year imagine the affect on NHS and work and families

was he never very good at maths ?

I would just tell him you dont want to discuss the matter anymore - get all your vaccinations and travel without him .

you cant argue with stupid

Unsure33 · 17/01/2022 12:34

sorry that should read the 1%

pointythings · 17/01/2022 12:36

It would be a dealbreaker for me - he won't let you say your piece, he makes choices that mean you will not be able to travel and he disregards the fact that you are clinically vulnerable and will not do his piece to protect you. Get rid, you deserve better.

Seriously folks, not all opinions are created equal.

Keepitonthedownlow · 17/01/2022 12:36

I wonder if you take an interest for a while he might calm down? Like eventually burn himself out ?

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 17/01/2022 12:37

Is this out-of-character for him OP, or do you think this IS his character, emerging after all?

If it's the former, i would be thinking about whether he is starting to experience a mental health crisis and it could be something you work through.
But if it is his 'true colours' then yeah, go on the holiday and leave him behind if needs be. Permanently.

ravenmum · 17/01/2022 12:38

in Europe you currently either need your last vaccine to have been within 6 months to get into many bars and restaurants
What part of Europe? That's not how it works in Saxony, where I live. Maybe in another part of Germany? Or another country?
As of 1 February, the second vaccination actually counts as valid for 9 months within Europe, as a general rule. But most countries have their own separate rules, e.g. in France it only counts as valid for 6 months. In some cases, such as Austria, you need a booster to enter without going into quarantine.
I'd book a nice holiday in Austria.

Hyperion100 · 17/01/2022 12:38

Everyone can have their own opinion but they have to:

  • Be grounded in logic and fact
  • Willing to explain why they have this opinion
  • Willing to change their opinion when new facts emerge

Also, it sounds like hes spending too much toime on facebook. These opinions rarely come from thin air.

murmuration · 17/01/2022 12:41

@WonderfulYou

Someone I work with and a friend of mine has turned like this over the past few weeks.

It’s quite concerning as they don’t know each other but both happen to believe the same thing about covid as well as starting to believe the earth is flat and that birds don’t exist - I’m wondering if they are reading things on Facebook or something which is almost brainwashing them.

I couldn’t be with someone with his views but I would also be concerned as it sounds like he is brainwashed.

I’m sorry, birds don’t exist? Is that a typo or something they actually believe? What do they think when looking at a bird?

Anyway, OP, I’m afraid it would be a dealbreaker for me. Beyond the topic, it doesn’t sound like he has respect for you.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 17/01/2022 12:46

I’m sorry, birds don’t exist? Is that a typo or something they actually believe? What do they think when looking at a bird?

They just look at a space where there is no bird. Then they argue that they are basing their opinion on the 'no-bird' evidence, which is every bit as valid (if not more so) than the bird evidence, which has probably been manipulated anyway.

ElftonWednesday · 17/01/2022 12:47

It would be a deal-breaker for me not to be able to go on holiday for that reason.

VelvetChairGirl · 17/01/2022 12:47

its up to you if someone having a different opinion is a deal breaker but can you blame him?, how many parties did boris Johnson have over the lockdowns and restrictions, how many trips to castles.

and you will never be fully vaccinated, its one booster after another despite the new strain being 70% milder then delta, and he is partially right in that most deaths have been the vulnerable with comorbidity, it has 3.4% death rate.

the vaccines dont stop you catching and spreading it anyway so its upto him if he has had enough of it all or not, if he cant go on holiday thats his choice, nothing stopping you going but if your that frightened of the virus I am surprised you'd want to seeing as it was fully jabbed up, vaccine passported and tested people who brought the latest strain over here from Africa in the first place. (and Delta came from India off the backs of international travelers too).

StonedRoses · 17/01/2022 12:48

It might be an opinion but it’s also bollocks. It’s up there with flat earth. If I’m doubt come and spend a day in any hospital

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