AIBU - DP turned into a covid denier

[Littletownofbirthdaywoes]

So, DP initially followed all the rules, had first 2 vaccines, but has increasingly been swept up by social media "experts" claiming that covid is all a plan to exert control, that for 99.9% of the population it's nothing more than a cold, that the figures are manipulated (everyone apparently dies "with" covid and not "of" covid and actually die of something else. I know. Don't get me started.)

He is refusing to get the booster but seems to think that we will be able to go away this year, abroad - I have pointed out that most countries will expect the booster to be able to claim being fully vaccinated but he refuses to think that this means him, too.

I declined to argue against him over the weekend, there is no point, but I have previously pointed out that I am actually vulnerable due to underlying causes, so I will continue to follow the rules and have vaccinations if deemed necessary.

This has been getting worse over the past weeks and I just don't like it any more. I don't seem to be able to agree with any of his views anymore, we both used to be more middle of the road, but now he seems to be becoming increasingly right wing in his views. I cannot and will not get on board with this, I am more left of centre and he does not like this at all. He gets really frustrated that I won't engage with him in "healthy debate" and refuses to see that healthy debate is not him talking over me and telling me I am wrong before I can even finish my sentence. He thinks that I won't argue as I don't have an argument but it's simply because there is no point. It just causes bad feeling and increasing frustration on his part that I won't subscribe to his views.

We do not have children together, but both have kids, all elder teens or young adults. We are at the point where we can start doing things for ourselves without them. I used to love spending time with him but that is all changing as he delights in pointing out all that is wrong with the narrow world that he lives in (increasingly too "woke" and people need to "grow up and live in the real world"). Initially I figured it was all just a phase against lockdowns and wanting some life back, but as life is returning it just seems to be getting worse.

My refusal to engage with him in argument (so he can feel right and superior) or agreeing with him (so that he is right and I had to give in to him and confirm this) seems to be making it worse but I am not changing my stance just to placate him.

We went through a rough patch last year. Things have been better, he thinks that he is engaging more with me and therefore we as a couple are good, but in reality his views are really putting me off spending the rest of my life with him. AIBU to think that this is a deal breaker for me? Would it be for you?

I am a regular, have nc'd because I posted here for support last year when things weren't great, I used some of the advise and we did seem to get somewhere, but now I am not so sure.

I've posted about this, I have a colleague who has gone from a reasonable normal man to completely and utterly obsessed. It is putting a real pressure on my work life, I couldn't deal with it at home.

@grapewine

Is the hospitalisation not enough for you to be granted a medical exemption for any further jabs?

I doubt it, but I should definitely find out. Thanks for mentioning it, hadn't thought of that.

They will probably claim it cant possibly be connected, like the GPs are doing with all the women reporting menstrual irregularities after being jabbed.

I feel for you .I have a very good friend who seems to agree with your DP! Seems desperate to prove her point in an almost evangelical way. I think if it were my DP ,I would be reconsidering our RL! Once they "believe" then there seems no going back sadly .

YABU. But let him go if you want to keep living the madness unchallenged.

@wonderfulyou It's ridiculous that people believe the 'birds don't exist' thing. the Birds Don't Exist movement was set up as a social commentary to mock the ridiculousness of exisitng conspiracy theories. Then idiots started to believe it and the founder had to come clean and try to spin it as a 'people will believe anything' commentary. Seriously though, tell your pal it's an actual intentional hoax!

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/technology/birds-arent-real-gen-z-misinformation.html

Op, not much advice - my DP is similar. Gone religious, thinks everyone is a 'libtard'. I absolutely hate it. But we have kids together and it comes from a place of thinking for yourself, so I can't really complain, as that is one of the things I really like about him.

And though they are noisy, especially on here , these irrational conspiracists are a tiny minority. Remember the vast majority of people don’t fall for this nonsense, 90% are vaccinated, over 60% boosted, and many that are not have good reasons not tied up with weird beliefs. He may find comfort in his new tribe but you are definitely part of the sensible majority.

Of course you do.....

your welcome to google everything I have said, but are you willing to eat your patronizing words when you find out everything I said comes straight from the WHO, CEOs of Biontech etc? I doubt it, you will probably just slink off into the shadows rather then apologies.

Tbh I can see why lots of people are turning this way now.

I had two jabs and dont want the booster due to previous reactions.

I currently have COVID and thankfully I am fine so that turned out to be the right decision for me - but it wasnt one made without a lot of deliberation.

I think with Omicron being so mild and most of the country having caught it now - which I think they have because mine has never shown on a LFT (and it isnt triggering LFTs for other colleagues at work either); only coming up because we do compulsory PCR testing twice a week.

Then it does make me start wondering about this being a control thing. I cant think of a logical reason for it to be so because it all seems rather pointless to 'control' - whats the gain, but equally I cant see any logical reason why NHS staff with antibodies for example need to have the vaccine, or for children who are not at risk to also be mandated a vaccine - again whats the gain. And no I dont want to start a debate about that, I have looked at the science very carefully and that is my decided viewpoint at this time.

I am quite calm about it because expecting a newborn next year so not too upset about lack of travel, and I think it will ease up at some point.

But for those who feel like they are being impedded from living their lives then I can see this is a problem and a form of control. So its not unfounded in a way.

And as someone who did have a psychotic episode once - which was initially founded in reality and then went over the line. Well it is a tricky one. Thoughts & feelings of control, fear, government are all deeply ingrained in us to provoke reaction. Once you loose trust in the 'status quo' there are no barriers except your own mind to how far you go in the other direction.

Its a long rambling post and I have no solutions OP - except I do think this is becoming more common and I can kind of see how.

@VelvetChairGirl

Of course you do.....

your welcome to google everything I have said, but are you willing to eat your patronizing words when you find out everything I said comes straight from the WHO, CEOs of Biontech etc? I doubt it, you will probably just slink off into the shadows rather then apologies.

Apologies for any offence. I'm just fed up with people who think they know better than my virology, immunology and medical colleagues. I'm a nurse and have had so much abuse from "Covid deniers" I'm sick to the back teeth of it. Shall we just agree to disagree?

What part of talking over you and refusing to listen to your views while expecting you to listen to and agree with his is 'healthy debate'?

I'm not sure I'd class that as part of a 'good relationship' tbh.

Its not so much the difference of opinion that would be the deal-breaker for me but the shouting you down. That's not ok.

The two examples you’ve given on his views don’t sound extreme or right-wing to me.

To most young people it is similar to a cold. Most people who die with it do have other comorbidities as well.

There are other sides of the story as well (impact to vulnerable people is much worse than a cold obviously) however instead of choosing to explain these and debate with him, you are talking about him as if he is a flat-earther. So based on the examples given YABU.

Flakey/McWakey Yes this is the same with me and my friend as well . Just messaging .so not as bad .However doesnt seem to want to engage in any healthy debate .Just telling me what she has "found out!

Lots of couples have different political , religious , medical strongly held views and it’s not a problem at all

What would be a dealbreaker is interrupting, disrespecting and disregarding your concerns regarding your travel and health.. and being a massive bore !!

He kind of has a point regarding the death rates as they are “ death for any reason 28 days after a positive covid test,” so my mil who had end stage cancer. Got tested for covid in hospital and came back positive and so she is an official covid death , this in no way is an excuse for not following the rules

DP and I have different views on the vaccine, he is fully vaxxed + booster. I am not. We discuss the issue and agree that we have different opinions on the subject. It might affect where we can go on holiday, yes - but we will work around it - together.

I think if partners - colleagues - friends - have different opinions and views then that needs to be accepted. You can either agree to disagree or just don't discuss it. It is a very emotive subject for sure.

OP I know from experience that once someone goes down the "conspiracy" rabbit hole it is almost impossible to have a reasoned discussion with them.

If you try to counter anything they will simply say that you have been brainwashed by the mainstream media/government. They will not actually try to engage with your arguments.

The problem seems to be that if someone goes down this route then eventually they start to buy into all the royals are lizards, Donald Trump is the saviour of America, anti-Semitic, elite baby eater trope.

I think the problem is also that there is a general distrust of government/authority figures these days and so it is easier for people to start believing in these things rather than accepting that often the people in authority are incompetent, self-serving idiots.

As an earlier pp said you cannot solve this with debate. It is very similar to the behaviour of those who get caught up in a cult.

The last couple of years has been really eye opening, in terms of people around me making surprising choices and announcing surprising views.

Those choices and views have told me a lot about their values and that’s been quite important to me. It’s particularly important to me that my life partner shares the same values as me. How important is it to you?

Wow thank you all for your replies.

There are so very many excellent points here so I am going to try and clarify a few

• DP has always been more right politically. (Think - Trump was brilliant, was robbed of the second term, FBI infiltrated and caused the Jan 6th riots at the Capitol, the left are "woke" (yes to a PP very much used as a derogatory term), non- white race is being over-represented in media to appease BLM, etc etc)
• I am as fed up of covid restrictions as the rest of us. My dad and my sister were very ill after their second jabs, my dsis was hospitalised after hers, so I know there are risks and I myself was very concerned about the risk of clots with AZ. I do not know where I stand on vaccine passports, I work in the NHS so I am aware that treatment is better and more successful now, also that underlying issues do make people more susceptible to severe illness and death, and that the elderly and the vulnerable were always more at risk.

-yes, we are all entitled to our opinion, but I will listen to his, should I therefore accept that his inability to listen to mine is part of his opinion?

• I have heard birds don't exist is part of a conspiracy but I refuse to go down that rabbit hole!
• science is still learning all the time about Covid...if the scientific and medical fields don't know everything, then I understand that we can't. However I do try and find a balance between keeping my family and friends and the population safe and living a life. Do I want that life to involve someone who has more respect for someone in his mum's spare room filming a video for social media based on nothing other than an opinion, over me, the person who he is supposed to love and spend time with? I don't believe I do.

-as for engaging with him and trying to understand where he is coming from, this is becoming increasing difficult as his views get more extreme. How do you argue with someone who believes that they are superior because they are white and have a penis?

I may have to go back and check some of the other comments now, there have been so many excellent ones thank you. And hearing it from others has clarified how I feel inside...I don't want to live with someone who can't even watch an advert anymore without commenting if it doesn't suit his white centric views

Most evidence points to people becoming more entrenched in their views and behaviours as they get older.
The OP’s husband’s views and his overbearing behaviour towards her is indicative of his way of thinking irrespective of the subject matter.
Today it is covid next who knows what conspiracy theory he will obsess over.
Op your DH’s attitude towards you is the deal breaker. There is no way you could happily spend the rest of your life in his company. Grieve the loss of what was once a satisfying relationship and get out in time to find someone who will respect you and your views as equal.
Good luck

I think you have 2 choices either say to him for the sake of our relationship you can have your views but I can no longer take listening to them or it's a deal breaker for you and its too much.

On the travel aspect yes your correct some countries are only allowing boosted people, others have limited the vaccine passport validity to 240 days from last jab so if his second dose was after this then they won't allow him in.
It's simply being frank with him if he wants to go away then he gets the booster if not take your kids away!

@ChristmasCrackered

The two examples you’ve given on his views don’t sound extreme or right-wing to me.

To most young people it is similar to a cold. Most people who die with it do have other comorbidities as well.

There are other sides of the story as well (impact to vulnerable people is much worse than a cold obviously) however instead of choosing to explain these and debate with him, you are talking about him as if he is a flat-earther. So based on the examples given YABU.

I do try to explain. I am always very clear that I understand that for most people, while it can be nasty, it isn't life threatening. But how do you know if you are that person who is going to end up on a ventilator? Or with life limiting long covid? You don't know until you get it.

My original post didn't go into detail over anything other than a general his views are turning increasingly right wing. I didn't think it needed to, it was more about how, with his new views on covid and what people should or shouldn't be doing, he won't discuss with me...he will talk over me and down to me, because he is starting to buy into these theories. I would happily discuss and debate but I do not get that opportunity.

The problem isn't so much the disagreement, it's the way he is handling the disagreement. Things aren't really getting better since last year - you might be "engaging more" with each other but you're not enjoying it more, in fact you're enjoying his company less. That would be a reason for ending it.

The two realistic strategies for serious disagreements are either to have a mutually respectful discussion with no talking over each other, and with no tantrums if you still don't agree at the end of the discussion; or to agree not to talk about that subject at all unless there is an immediate practical need - not even "you will need to be vaccinated to go on holiday" but "here are these holiday destinations, here are their vaccination rules, can I book this one which needs a booster, or shall I wait to see if the rules change, or shall I book this other one instead?".

If he wont do either of those things but insists on debating the rights and wrongs of vaccination, politics etc. to the point where you don't enjoy spending time with him any more, then I would dump him, because what's the point?

somewhat right wing?

He sounds about 6 miles further right than 'somewhat' right wing.

His views wouldn't make a difference to me, each to their own. However, the constant lecturing on those opinions and the fact that his decisions would probably impact where we could go and the life we would have together would be dealbreakers.

@IncompleteSenten

somewhat right wing?

He sounds about 6 miles further right than 'somewhat' right wing.

This. It would have been over long before covid denial for me.

For me, this alone is not a dealbreaker. I think you need to consider how happy you are in the relationship as a whole. Will this pass and you return to really happy times you wouldn’t wish to miss out on?

I have friends who are like your DP. My strategy has been to have one, closure conversation where we express our views, acknowledge they are different and neither will change position. Friendship will continue because there is enough fun, laughter and good company to move on from this diverging perspective.