Feel sad that lazy DS probably isn’t going to reach his academic potential

[bigroundsun]

DS is now 17 and in year 12 so first year of A’levels. He’s always coasted at school achieving very well with minimum effort. He’s well behaved and does homework but that’s it.
Now he’s doing A’levels this attitude is really starting to worry me. Any encouragement from me to put in extra effort to ensure he gets the high grades he needs for the university course he’s interested in is pretty much ignored. I know that at his age it’s up to him but I can’t help but feel disappointed. Since he was little I’ve had high hopes for him as he was always so naturally clever, but I feel like he’s throwing it away. Help me get a grip!

@ExConstance

I used to tell my children that if they got an "A" for achievement I didn't care if they got an "E" for effort. To be able to get good grades without busting a gut seemed to be good preparation for adult life to me.

I was like this at school, coasted and my ds was the same. I've not been massively successful in my career, although I've not had any trouble getting jobs. But I've not been promoted or told to be a mentor to others - I just do what I have to do to get my job done. We're not all careerists and it doesn't matter. Maybe my mother expected me to be a partner of a city law firm and earn £1 million a year. I didn't and I don't but I earn enough to fund the lifestyle I want.

So I'm with you really - my ds is similar to me. He probably won't do as well as a lot of people who do less well at A level and university but work harder, but ultimately career success is down to work ethic, people skills and how much you want to earn, not academics.

Really I just want him to be happy and have a life without loads of (negative) drama. Level of salary is not important as long as he earns enough to be comfortable and not be wondering where the next meal or energy bill is coming from.

Op you need to find out what motivates him.

For instance does he appreciate beauty, is oxbridge or Egham uni on his radar!

Is it a course, interest, subject?

Unfortunately it's hard for such young people to understand this stepping stone and what it means.
If he isn't motivated... He isn't motivated unfortunately.

Sounds like he's doing okay to me. I was like this. Got decent A-levels and a decent degree from a less good uni than I was probably capable of. I've got a decent job. I am much less anxious than most of my peers. Knowing you could do more if you needed can actually be good. I quite like being just a tiny bit lazy. Maybe he's got it right?

Can you pay him? Would that motivate him?

My ex is the same. Really clever but is happy working on a reasonable job (could achieve more but what's the point of the stress?) and has lots of time for the kids.

@JuergenSchwarzwald it’s all relative. IME people who claim to be ‘not career focused’ are usually privileged. Subsidised by a higher earning spouse, have family help, or actually earn a good wage (only low by their industry’s standards). Again depends on your worldview - lots on MN moaning about how above NMW job is a privilege .others say earning 30K easy, who knows the truth…

I have this with DS16. He is clever and articulate but lazy, has always been very erratic and only did the bare minimum last year which resulted in failing 2 key subjects and needing extra tuition. He continued putting no effort in with the tutor, until I said I was no longer paying for the lessons and would let him fail the retakes. That produced the desired effect, he passed them. I didn't congratulate but said he'd done the bare minimum and I was very disappointed with his attitude, he is wasting his chances and letting himself (not me) down, that he'll regret it when he goes to uni, meets a lot of high achievers and realises he could've been one of them but has poor grades below his ability and a poor work ethic.

Basically I told him he's old enough to vote and get a job, and he needs to grow up and take responsibility for his life because nobody else is going to.

Seems to have worked, his grades are really good in all subjects except one he doesn't like, and he's stopped making excuses. I think it is possible, good luck!

How did he do in his GCSE’s? Do you think he reached his potential in them?

@Wannakisstheteacher he got 7s, 8s and 9s with minimum effort. Therefore I suppose he could have done better with effort but I couldn’t really complain.
I’m just aware that you can’t really approach A’levels in the same way and expect As and A*s.

There is no such thing as ‘potential’ that is separate to qualities such as self motivation, ambition, work ethic, focus, drive. If he doesn’t want to, or can’t, apply himself you are going to have to downgrade your ‘dreams’ for him. It will do fuck all for his future levels of success if you manage to put the pressure on to get him to achieve what you think he should be achieving. It will all just fall apart once that external pressure isn’t there any more.

A recent study (please don’t ask me to link!) suggested that only 8% of success is reliant on academic achievement. I’ve been telling myself that while struggling myself with a lazy and unmotivated but very bright boy!

[quote bigroundsun]@Wannakisstheteacher he got 7s, 8s and 9s with minimum effort. Therefore I suppose he could have done better with effort but I couldn’t really complain.
I’m just aware that you can’t really approach A’levels in the same way and expect As and A*s.[/quote]
You don't need perfect grades to go to an employable course at a good university. Besides failing miserably at mocks IS a wake up call for many students.

I coasted through school and got solid results in my Standard Grades (GCSE equivalent) without cracking open a book. Then I moved up to Higher level (A-Level), realised I couldn't fluke it, fell behind and couldn't catch up. I got shit grades - I couldn't have gone to uni even if I'd wanted to at that point.

I got a job, got a couple of promotions and when I was 24 they paid for me to attend an evening course at the local college. I kept working there full-time while I did a part-time undergraduate degree and then an MSc. I'm now in the second year of a funded PhD and teaching at a university on the side.

My brother didn't show any interest in academics - ever. I have never seen him read a book. He ballsed up his exams, left school at 16 and lounged around until he got a mechanic apprenticeship when he was 19. He is now 25, qualified, incredibly hardworking and earning more than our parents (not that I'm bitter, living on a grad student stipend ).

There are so many different routes to success but our society tries to force teenagers down one single path and it's damaging. I spent years thinking I was "thick" or not cut out for studying because that path didn't work out for me

@Fhee

There is no such thing as ‘potential’ that is separate to qualities such as self motivation, ambition, work ethic, focus, drive. If he doesn’t want to, or can’t, apply himself you are going to have to downgrade your ‘dreams’ for him. It will do fuck all for his future levels of success if you manage to put the pressure on to get him to achieve what you think he should be achieving. It will all just fall apart once that external pressure isn’t there any more.

While I agree that hard work, self motivation etc are key; I think this is a bit harsh.

The op's son is only 17 which means his brain is reorganising itself and while it does, he is much more influenced by his limbic system rather than logical thought, which tends to take over again around the age of 24/25 yrs. In other words, there is still room for improvement!

Yes, there is room for improvement, but that improvement will come from developing those qualities, which are completely separate from cleverness. Who knows what his potential actually is in that respect.

He doesn't sound like he's doing badly at all? It's a myth that A Levels are so difficult that you can't coast through them - I didn't find mine any harder than GCSEs and if anything did less work. Some people are just good at school, it's a skill totally separate from intelligence.

I think bribery is a good option. A certain amount of money per A, double for an A*. Enough to make a difference. That would have motivated me I think!

Mine was like that too. Didn't achieve his potential at A level or at university. Since he's graduated he has excelled. His intelligence has stood him in good stead in the work place and he engages more in the work place than in academic study. Had apprenticeships been a viable option for him back then, I'd have steered him in that direction, but sadly it was a few years later that they became a realistic alternative.
Hope that gives you some hope, I know how frustrating it is x

I was like this - did incredibly well at gcse with not much effort. Did well enough throughout sixth form, predicted as if I worked hard. Was an arrogant sod, did minimal revision and got b/cs. So not car crash but not what was expected.

I was lucky and kept my uni place. Mainly because it interviewed for places as my subject was popular and the course good and they liked me.

I'll be honest and say it didn't have much of an impact on me and didn't make me buck my ideas up. I did well at uni without ever really pushing myself. Got a 2:1. Got a job easy enough, got a better career type job 18 months later.

Never held me back and I work in quite a sought after industry/employer and am well paid. If I was more focused I could be very well paid indeed- the only reason I am not is basically down to my own lack of ambition and effort.

My point here is i have never wanted to work harder. I work hard enough for me. I deal with the consequences of my choices and if I've missed out it's down to me.

I think bribery is a good option. A certain amount of money per A, double for an A. Enough to make a difference. That would have motivated me I think!*

It's ok to bribe at secondary school age. But will you continue bribing your kid into university if they have no will for academics? Then what?

It's easy to mistake an easy ride through secondary education as a talent or potential.

@Mummadeze

I think bribery is a good option. A certain amount of money per A, double for an A*. Enough to make a difference. That would have motivated me I think!

The problem is you can't do it forever.

So you pay them to get through their A-levels - are you going to do the same for their degree?

Bribery would have worked for me! I wish my parents did that to encourage me

I don’t think bribery would work for DS. He’s got a job plus I think he definitely thinks he’s doing enough school wise and thinks more studies would be futile! I suppose we’ll find out when he’s done these tests.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts Bribing not really needed at uni. the desire to earn a decent wage kicks in once they a) have to pay for everything themselves and b) experience part-time jobs.

Also if it’s a good uni for employment they’ll have placements years etc. They won’t want to be the only ones stuck at uni when all their friends are at placements!

Finally…uni these days is a hell of a lot easier than a-levels. Plenty have ‘coursework’ modules. And in essay subjects the average grade is a 2:1. People rarely get 2:2 or thirds unless they really fucked up.

I was your son. I got very good 'O' levels doing the minimum of work. I did the same for my A levels and failed them all. I had no career aspirations and had no idea what I would do when I left school. The only crumb of comfort that I can offer is that I went back to college in my early 30s and then on to university and did quite well.