To talk to son’s ‘friend’s’ mum?

[ScatteredMama82]

My DS is 12. Has been friends with this bit, let’s call him Oliver, since toddler group. I’m friends with his mum, not close friends but we do socialise occasionally. Dos and Oliver both moved to the same school last year. They were friendly to begin with but Oliver is now in the ‘in’ crowd and DS isn’t. Oliver seems to be making a low-level campaign against DS. If DS sits at the same lunch table Oliver gets up and moves and takes his mates with him, on occasion leaving DS sitting on his own. He’s telling people DS is weird, annoying, lazy, crap at sport etc and DS is finding other people he thought we’re friends are now pulling away from him too. Do I speak to Oliver’s mum, or do I speak to school? Or do nothing? Is this normal adjustment of friendship groups? I’m thinking it is verging on bullying but I worry I am overreacting. DS is crying in bed and I’m absolutely raging at Oliver, so I need some perspective please fellow MNers!

I wouldn’t say has DS done something To bother Oliver as I feel that is victim blaming.

I would date and write down all incidents and go straight to school. Have a plan you want in your mind- do you want them to be separated into different classes?

It's good you're going to speak to the mum but you need to consider what sort of person she is.
Will she go home tell Oliver your ds has gone crying to his mum and he's better keep his head down cos she doesn't want the hassle.
Does she have good parental authority like a pp mentioned where she could instil some discipline that makes him change his behaviour without repercussions for ds
Will she be defensive out of embarrassment and try to claim its ds fault or he's imagining it.

I'd also be way of using the, has ds upset Oliver line, it's a tactful way of raising the conversation if you don't know someone that well, but gives the wrong impression if you could be more open with this mum. Preferably you'd be able to calmly list what is happening and say its very common for children to drift away from previous friends when they get to secondary and you quite understand if they've gravitated to different people but this unpleasantness shouldn't be happening and you'd like to see what she could do about it from home.

I hope she is a good person and parent, if so the conversion will be easy. If she's two faced, considered her children above criticism or other possible land mines then you need to tread carefully.

I would talk to the mum. I know it’s always a bit of a gamble but if she is half way decent she may well be pissed off that you didn’t give her a chance to sort it out before contacting the school. Obviously if she is not willing to help then contacting school in Plan B.

Do any of yes chat to Olivers mum have teenagers? Whilst it was heartening to see one parent realise and say their child is a little shit, in 99% of situations this won't help.

The chance of Olivers mum agreeing with you and helping sort it out is tiny. Much more likely is she disagrees, goes home and tells Oliver who then goes into school, tells everyone Oliver has gone 'running to his mummy' and that he is a snitch. I have never (over lots of School years) see a positive outcome if parents get involved, and only seen negative outcomes at senior school.

You need to talk to the school, it has to be the first port of call.

I would agree this is a big risk. So much depends on the relationship of the mums and how well they know each other and care and how much authority she has as a parent.
Definitely consider this. Don't just reveal all and hope for the best.

And what are you going to do if she says yes, her son has been upset by yours? You completely believe that your son is in the right and not been horrible because he is your son. Doesn't mean it is true, but also shows how Olivers mum will feel about her son.
(Don't jump, I'm not saying he is lying but even if he is lovely it is reasonable to accept that 12year olds can say something horrible without realising how the other person will take it.)

Honestly speak to school first.

You also need to talk to your son. Why is he choosing to sit at the table with Oliver?

If DS sits at the same lunch table Oliver gets up and moves and takes his mates with him, on occasion leaving DS sitting on his own

DD had similar - it was several years of bullying by an Oliver. We tried the speak to parents (made it worse) and school (ineffectual when outside the school & they can't make kids be friends when they don't want to be).

The only positive thing we could do was make sure that she knew she was loved and it would get better - we didn't have the option of moving school until after GCSE. Once she had finished her exams we sent her to a 6th form which was not the one most kids go to from around here. It was a hard couple of years with a lot of time spent in the library and art studios. DD is now the cool kid and she mostly ignores the kids she went to school with.

I hope the chat goes well. I’ve been in a similar situation and spoke to the mum first and thankfully it got sorted, but I also made it clear if it escalated I’d have to go down the school route next so they could deal with it as it happened during the school day. The mum understood and I’m pleased to say we’re still friends and so are our kids, but they have separate friendship groups as well, which has helped.

If it’s happening at school, it needs to be handled by the school. Do not talk to the mum.

But also you need to encourage your DS to find new friends away from Oliver. He sounds like he might be trailing after him a bit, sitting himself down at lunch when Oliver is with other mates, etc. While Oliver’s response to that is wrong and he deserves censure, maybe he’s trying to distance himself? He’s perfectly entitled not to want to be friends with your DS any longer. When this was happening to my DC, I asked them why on earth would they want to hang around with someone so mean to them and they should steer clear so they did, and quickly made other friends. It sounds like yours might need encouragement to do the same.

My betting mum will say Oliver has outgrown ds.

This is very likely true.

So whilst Oliver's behaviour is nasty your ds also needs to find his own friendship group within school without trying to hold onto one from toddler age. It's very common for best friends at primary to not be close at all once they start secondary.

Speak to school first, not the mum. IME it rarely goes well criticising a persons child, and that’s what it is however you phrase it with her. He does sound a shit though!

I once said something to the other Mum in this type of circumstance. I wasn't going to but she had phoned me about something else and had asked about my child. Maybe she knew there was a problem. I phrased everything very gently and gave a very specific example that had happened that day (along with caveats that I hadn't actually witnessed it myself). The result was that the Mum dealt with it, the child apologised and my child was never bothered again. I was glad I mentioned it.

Thanks folks, it’s useful to have different perspectives. The other mum is lovely and we have known each other for years. I’m not going in to criticise Oliver, I’m looking to hear the other side of the story. I’m totally fine with them not being friends anymore, it happens. It’s the blatant nastiness I’m bothered about. I’m entirely prepared to hear that DS has done or said something that upset Oliver.
We are encouraging him to focus on other friends, it’s a valuable lesson to learn. I hear that some of you say I should let him deal with it on his own, but would you say that if it was physical bullying? If he was being beaten up? My 12 year old son is crying himself to sleep. I’m not going to stand back and do nothing. We really are taking a two pronged approach here, encouraging other friendships and teaching him to choose friends carefully and build his self-esteem. However if Oliver continues to demean him in front of everyone else he’ll have no friends left at school.

Also, I feel I can approach Oliver’s mum as she has phoned me before when Oliver was upset about something DS had said. This was in Year 6. It was about whether Santa was real or not!

This happened to ds at a similar age.

"Oliver" upgraded his friendship group and seemed to think that excluding and bullying ds would seal the deal.

I didn't speak to the parent but we did speak to the school who kept an eye out and encourged ds with other friendships.

A few years on, ds has a strong friendship group. Sad* to say "Oliver's" new friends ditched him and his life is not so happy.

*Fuck it, I'm not sad. °Oliver" was a shit and I'd have been mortified if one of my children had thought it was reasonable behaviour.

OP a similar issue is happening to my 12 yr old DS.

He went to secondary with his best friend who also happens to be a twin. The three of them have been friends from the first day at primary but my DS is closer friends with one twin.

All was well in year 7 but in the last few months DS' best friend has started being quite mean and is simply not interested in being close mates anymore.

It has been very hard and I have been tempted to talk to the mum who I am friends with but DS has lots of other friends at school and he needs to learn how to navigate issues like this without parental interference.

I also know judging by what I see on DS' WhatsApp groups that I will probably make things worse!

Secondary school friendship groups are absolutely brutal. One minute it's all drama and so and so doesn't like me, the next they're all mates again.

Be realistic when chatting to the mum. I've learnt through bitter experience that kids will choose who they want to be friends despite what we as parents say.

It’s fine to drift away from a primary school friend when you reach secondary school. It’s not fine to engage in social bullying ie making a big deal of moving away from the table and encouraging others to do the same.

Oliver may have forged new friendships but that doesn’t excuse spite and bad manners.

It's pretty obvious Oliver's loving life at senior school. His Mum will be over the moon he's happy and enjoying it therefore will not want to hear how her son is a bully. Not will she want the school to hear of any of this and have to witness hod fall from grace.
I don't think she'll take it well OP and I'd worry they're going to twist all this into being something your ds has done so her ds doesn't get into trouble. They'll definitely be on the defensive and just know you're going to involve the school.

Go to the school before she gets wind of this.

I don't care how 'lovely' you think she is. She will defend her child.

He is out and out bullying your son. Doesn't matter what they fell out over. His behaviour is bullying behaviour. And the school needs to be alerted immediately and formally.

Do NOT tell "Oliver's" mum that your son is so upset he is crying at night! If she mentions this to Oliver, or if he somehow gets to hear about it, your son will never live it down. I really agree with other posters who are suggesting that at age 12, you need to help your son to deal with the situation rather than jumping in to help - there is a strong chance you will only make it worse.

I agree with the above poster. Don’t give Oliver more ammunition. I think it’s reasonable to say that you understand that Oliver doesn’t want to be friends with your DS anymore, but that doesn’t mean he should be turning the other kids against him. Hopefully she will respond the way you hope, but as said, there is a chance she won’t. It can take a while to find your tribe in Comprehensive school. I hope your DS finds his soon.

I'd speak to the school as bullying is not acceptable. One of my dds experienced this in y7 from 2 boys she had been at primary school with. Her head of year sorted out out immediately and it stopped. One boy later became a friend of hers.

I'd also counsel your son to keep clear of this boy as much as possible and look out for new friends.

I'd avoid talking to the mother as some people can become very defensive with their own children and won't accept their child is in the wrong. My dd has had two sets of parents blame her for ' bullying' their child. Both are former friends. One was always an oddball and constantly made up stories about herself (so did her father, her father, he's a complete fantasist). The girl has significant problems socially speaking but dd was loyal to her until she got old enough to see through it and dropped the friendship. Another is now mid teens and feels shunned by dd and other friends but they just don't get along anymore - teens change as they age and find they don't fit with others so well anymore. It's perfectly natural.

Not saying you son isn't being bullied, just that other patents will have their own pov or just get upset. Plus you can talk to your son about how teens change as they grow and leave old friendships behind. As they develop their own identity they look for others who suit them better.

Ah it's shit when this happens Oliver is trying to fit in with the crowd and taking it out on your son. I wouldn't go to his mum I'd go to the school then maybe his mum if school take it further.

Don't let Oliver's mum twist it round to make your son look the one in the wrong.

Also I agree with a previous poster who said don't tell her your DS is crying over it all. It will get back to Oliver and he'll probably use it against DS.