Was this a dodgy massage?!

[Dodgyornotdodgy]

I swear I am NOT a troll - MNHQ can confirm I am a long time poster who has NC. I would particularly like the opinions of masseuses/masseurs but anyone really.

I get massages all the time and this has never happened before.

Masseur (so male - not a problem, have masseurs fairly often too. Not sexist and not assuming all men are pervs).

During the leg portion of my massage he crossed my leg over and massaged the bottom of my thigh. The bottom of my thigh was over my vulva. It was extremely arousing, obviously. I didn’t really know what to say - he did it on both sides.

I guess my AIBU is - AIBU to think this was deliberate and he knows what he is doing?! Or am I just quite sex starved and bizarre?

I realise people will come on being like why didn’t you say anything but 1) I wasn’t really sure if he was doing anything on purpose ajd 2) to be honest it was pleasant!

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@egglette

Thank you for your post! It’s just a very odd feeling in general because of the lack of clarity and the confusion with my own feelings

@Kitfish

Hi Op. I hear you - and unlike some on here I won't take the piss. I once had a massage where teh (male) masseure put his fingers inside my vagina while continuing to massage. I was too embarrassed to say anything but - looking back - I did feel quite violated by this.

I’m so sorry. It’s so violating. I had a massage where the man spent ages putting his hands in the crack of my bum and massaging my bum pulling the knickers to the side. It was awful. It went on for ages. I said nothing. It still bothers me now and I wasn’t that young. I was 40 ish. It was 15 years ago and still bothers me. Very sorry you went through such violation kitfish. It’s disgusting.

This has certainly persuaded me never to have a massage from a man. Yuck.

@Cissyandflora

Yikes that’s horrendous. It’s such an unusual situation because it’s not like “normal” assault where it’s very clear someone is touching you against your will. You feel you have given them permission to touch your body and the lines feel very blurred at the time. I have also had a massage where the masseur just stood there waiting for me to roll over onto my front without any towel etc but in that instance it was very simple to assume he had just forgotten and say “could you put a towel up please so I can roll over”!

I actually couldn't have a massage from a man. Perhaps a sports massage from a physio where I was mainly fully dressed. I had a physio I felt actively safe with.
I feel so much safer and able to relax with women.

@Dodgyornotdodgy

MNHQ might delete this but don’t say I didn’t try (surely I win some sort of diagram award for attempting this though)

Thank you for that diagram!!! I'm absolutely hooting here! 😂😂😂😂

@debwong

Did he cook you a steak afterwards?

😂😂😂

@VodselForDinner

The fact that your stickman masseur has a little stick boner in your diagram is cracking me up.

😂😂

@PurpleDaisies

Am I the only one bothered by so many posters joking around about what could be sexual touching without prior consent?

No, it's quite alarming

[quote Dodgyornotdodgy]@LessTime

I think the thread is also varying in tone but I think it’s fine that I was lighthearted. I don’t feel like I’ve been violated, even though if it was deliberate that’s probably what happened. I feel very unsure about what’s happened and I think my lighthearted posts were also totally fine at the time. Basically I wasn’t really sure if it was untoward or not. I’m still not really sure but I agree in combination with the other things it’s all a bit suspect.

I don’t see why I would delete the thread - it’s been amusing to me as well as helpful. I certainly don’t think I should feel bad about it![/quote]
I'm glad you're ok and being light-hearted about it means that you weren't distressed, just curious.
I would never get a massage, but I suppose it must be a very intimate experience.

No one's laughing about the sexual touching without consent. We were laughing at the difficulty explaining what happened, the attempts to draw it and so on.

OP was not distressed by the reaction, but helped to clarify what happened, process how she felt about it, and decide what to do. All while enjoying a few pretty witty responses.

Obviously there are times when humour is inappropriate- this wasn't one. It arose naturally from the confusion and allowed OP to release a bit of stress about the situation.

[quote Dodgyornotdodgy]@UmmH

The mirror was attached to the wall - which I don’t understand at all! Unless he is supposed to go round the other side to do this manoeuvre. That’s why I was thinking of mentioning it to them as the mirror placement is so odd.

He was staring at me and my nakedness (aside from thong) and looked away when he saw me see him looking.[/quote]
That definitely sounds dodgy.

@picklemewalnuts

Exactly!

He knew exactly what he was doing.

I'd complain.

And if he doesnt know, then I'd still complain so the same doesnt happen to someone else.

@Feelinglow27

I actually don't find this funny. A masseuse I know of got away with brushing past/massaging intimate areas because women often doubt themselves and not believe in themselves and their experience. It was only when a few women took him to court, and he appeared in the local paper, that a load more women realised that they HAD actually been assaulted and came forward. Trust in your instinct OP.

Don't know if this was my case or another (there are probably loads 😢) but myself and some other women whom I didn't know took a guy taking this sort of "grey area" approach to sexually abusing clients to court and he went down for it. The case was all spearheaded by the police who I felt handled it pretty well (they got back in touch about two years after I'd reported it). The guy in question was a married man who was the owner of the beauty salon in question, based in Hammersmith, London. I was about age 30 when it happened and was going for the massage as a stress release for my final exams to qualify as a massage practitioner! I went in to practice for some years up until when I had children. I can identify with just about all the posts on this thread. OP the police told me one very young woman, maybe late teen had experienced the same at jos hands and was totally traumatised by it. She couldn't face giving evidence. I was glad to have been able to front up for her, along with the other women who also appeared in court. I say the right thing to do is report him.

@Dodgyornotdodgy

Ok let me be more specific! My the bottom of my thigh I suppose I mean the top - near my bottom. My bad. So he crossed one leg over the top of the other and massaged the underside of my thigh, exactly where the clitoris/vulva is. I don’t know if that makes sense. I can’t really do a diagram…or can I?! I can try 🤦🏻‍♀️

My clitoris/vulva are not adjacent to each other, let alone the underside of my thigh.

I'm betting several hundred Mumsnetters are going to be trying summat new in bed tonight.

My clitoris/vulva are not adjacent to each other, let alone the underside of my thigh

I thought the vulva is everything? So the clitoris lives in the vulva? If you cross your legs over tightly then sure your thigh will be touching your vulva?

@Feelinglow27
@Arealnumber

At what point do you know it’s on purpose though?

@Dodgyornotdodgy

My question is did you have an orgasm?

No but if he had continued I 100% would have

hm.. where is this hotel exactly? Asking for a friend.

@Maireas
I would never get a massage, but I suppose it must be a very intimate experience

I must have had hundreds of massages over the years and I will chose a male if there is one available. I've never experienced anything that could vaguely be described as intimate. It feels great but not in a sexual way.

I find the situation that the OP found herself in really creepy. I guess this thread is a good warning that people should be careful. Wear sensible knickers, hold on to your towel and say something if ever you feel uncomfortable.

The masseur/masseuse is touching your body, so it must be intimate in that sense? Not necessarily sexual.

Wear sensible knickers, hold on to your towel and say something if ever you feel uncomfortable

This is pretty outrageous and victim blamey. Wearing disposable knickers provided doesn’t cause being touched inappropriately ffs. I’m pretty sure wearing normal pants would have heralded the same. Also I have never had to hold onto my own towel - usually someone lifts it up and I roll and they don’t ogle me.

Also, and you haven’t been in an awkward situation, it’s not always easy to say something. Jesus.

Sorry I actually can’t get over “wear sensible knickers”. Disposable knickers are there to stop your usual pants from getting oily snd ruined. I would say at 90% of massages I’ve received (and I have had a LOT) or massages, I have been offered them and work them. Totally normal and not in anyway and excuse for someone to be inappropriate. Wearing your usual pants is also not a guarantee that a sexual deviant isn’t going to touch you inappropriately 🤨 I’m not even speaking about my experience here - lots of people on this thread have experienced far worse and it’s absurd to even mention the knickers they wore.

I've never had a massage, but the OP has had loads, so disposable pants are obviously worn. Does "sensible pants" mean big knickers?
If someone is going to assault you, it doesn't matter what your pants are like.

@Maireas

Exactly!