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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Young woman murdered running, what sort of world is this?!?

373 replies

irishfarmer · 13/01/2022 14:15

A young woman was murdered yesterday in Tullamore, Ireland while out for a run at 4pm. It is not a dangerous area, she was on a popular route along the canal, in day light! These things just do not happen here. I am in total shock. It was a random, unprovoked attack. It's just so awful, 23 years old her whole life ahead of her. She was a teacher so had probably just finished work for the day and wanted to de-stress.

AIBU to think this poor girl should have been able to go for a run on a lovely winter afternoon safely? I know I am not BU just don't know where else to post. I am truly shocked and horrified.

OP posts:
BlueberryJam123 · 14/01/2022 12:25

@errnerrcallnernnernnern

I think it’s better to ignore *@EightWheelGirl*

He clearly gets off on this attention.

yeah, I bet @EightWheelGirl is not really a girl. Most likely an MRA.
BlueberryJam123 · 14/01/2022 12:29

I remember when I was growing up, boys young as 6-7 already expressed contempt for women and girls, just for being female.
They felt like they were "better" and deserved better things.

Male entitlement and contempt for women starts young.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/01/2022 12:30

yeah, I bet @EightWheelGirl is not really a girl. Most likely an MRA.

This site is full of those. They are attracted to any thread relating to victims of male violence or sexual abuse like a hive of bees homing in on a honey jar. They are readily transparent.

NearlyAHoarder · 14/01/2022 12:34

I think 8wheelgirl is a woman but drives a lorry for a living. (discussed on the sick of work thread)

This is pure speculation but I think that that kind of profession would only attract a woman who is bigger than average, stronger than average and has managed to convince herself that because men don't threaten her that all women who feel threatened are perpetrating an unfair aggression on the not-all-men with their fear.

Drinkingallthewine · 14/01/2022 12:56

Throughout my adult life, there's been micro-aggressions by men. The same kind of men who are currently all over twitter and facebook being all outraged but they aren't murdering bastards like this man so they can shout NAMALT and chide us for being afraid of them.

But it IS them who scare us. It's the guy who tries to talk to you at the bus stop. The cat-caller. The guy who asks you for a light, asks you do you have a boyfriend, asks you why are you being such a bitch, he's only trying to be friendly. The man who tells you to cheer up it'll never happen. The one who says "smile love" or "cheer up love it'll never happen" or "you'd be quite pretty if you smiled"

The man who leans in past you in the supermarket for the ketchup and brushes off your breast deliberately. The one who squeezes past you in an aisle even though there's ample room to get past without touching you, just so he can rub his penis off your bottom. The man who rushes past you in the street pretending to be so much in a hurry that he accidentally 'stumbles' and feels you up. The hand thrust at your vagina in a concert crowd. The manspreader on the bus invading your leg space because his bollocks are more important than your comfort. The leering glances. The appraisal as if I'm a piece of meat he's thinking of buying. The abuse when I politely turn down a dance or a drink or a date.

It's the man who has one more thrust after you asked him to stop during sex. The man who takes a girl home knowing if she was actually sober, she wouldn't sleep with him. The man who pesters you for a sex act you don't want to do. Or sulks if he doesn't get laid. The man who shares your intimate pictures with his whatsapp group. The man who sends you unsolicited dick pics.

It's the sexist fucker in work who thinks because I've tits, I'm the only one who knows how to work the dishwasher or that should be making sure there's milk for his tea, or that I should automatically know where the cloths are kept. The one who calls me "good girl" even though I'm 47 years of age. The senior staff member at work who decided that because you are pleasant and smile at people, it's a come-on and makes your job miserable when you set him straight.

It's the leery local oddball who my partner says is 'harmless' yet I and other women can all get the whiff of both hatred and want off him towards us. Its the men who send you unasked for messages on social media despite you clearly having your status set to 'married'.

So I don't really buy NAMALT. Too many men that consider themselves part of that group still do things that intimidate, unsettle or scare women and it's so ingrained in them they don't even realise it or if they do, they don't see it as wrong.

Heading towards middle age and the invisibility that I seem to have acquired for the most part is blissful. Like that far away car alarm that was going off for so long you are used to it so when it finally stops it takes you a while to pinpoint why you feel at peace all of a sudden. But I know it only means they've moved onto younger targets instead. That makes me so very sad and angry and I feel helpless.

This outrage will fade. The hand-wringers will stop. The proposed laws that they say they'll change will slide into oblivion unchanged. The rape jokes and nude pictures and low level harassment will resume as before. And when the next time the news tells us a woman has been attacked on her way home from work these men will turn to their wives, girlfriends, sisters, mothers and daughters without a trace of irony to tell them to be careful on their way home because of 'all the wierdos out there'.

But they can shove NAMALT up their arse.

notacooldad · 14/01/2022 13:02

Drinkingallthewine
That us so eloquent and accurate and sums up many , if not nearly all womens expierences at least some time in the live.

Every single one of thisecexamples has happened to me at some point in my nearly 57 years!

A lot still goes on. I was hoping I'd be invisible by now!

Drinkingallthewine · 14/01/2022 13:16

@notacooldad

Drinkingallthewine That us so eloquent and accurate and sums up many , if not nearly all womens expierences at least some time in the live.

Every single one of thisecexamples has happened to me at some point in my nearly 57 years!

A lot still goes on. I was hoping I'd be invisible by now!

Sorry to hear it's still happening to you. Most of those happened to me

The thing is, that without all of those things happening to us, and happening so often to all of us, we wouldn't be so scared about rapists or weirdos attacking us, because they'd be so rare they'd not even be on our radar most of the time!

EightWheelGirl · 14/01/2022 13:39

@NearlyAHoarder

I think 8wheelgirl is a woman but drives a lorry for a living. (discussed on the sick of work thread)

This is pure speculation but I think that that kind of profession would only attract a woman who is bigger than average, stronger than average and has managed to convince herself that because men don't threaten her that all women who feel threatened are perpetrating an unfair aggression on the not-all-men with their fear.

I'm 5'7 and slim but I am pretty strong tbf. Can deadlift 140kg, although that is through much training. But I'm under no illusion that most blokes couldn't beat me senseless. I'm just aware that most women (and particularly myself as a driver) are many times more likely to die on the way to work than be murdered. If I'm not scared on my daily commute then why should I scared of the average bloke.

And FWIW, there are a fair few posters on here using the same tactics you see with TRAs who label anybody who disagrees with them as 'transphobes'. Just the other side of the coin.

Such people use the strong emotions elicited by the horrific nature of this case to rouse general and indiscriminate hatred of men. It's an effective tactic and one used effectively by racist politicians to stir up hatred in times of hardship.

PaleGreenGhost · 14/01/2022 13:44

@NearlyAHoarder

I think 8wheelgirl is a woman but drives a lorry for a living. (discussed on the sick of work thread)

This is pure speculation but I think that that kind of profession would only attract a woman who is bigger than average, stronger than average and has managed to convince herself that because men don't threaten her that all women who feel threatened are perpetrating an unfair aggression on the not-all-men with their fear.

They describe women as "Karens" on another thread, so their attraction to feminist topics is bizarre.
sillysmiles · 14/01/2022 13:53

@EightWheelGirl I am a fairly average woman. I am not "easily sacred" and often walk alone. And will continue to do so. I speak to random strangers when out walking. And will continue to do so. I understand that my life and lifestyle means that I am low risk for violent crime. However, if I was a victim of violent crime - there is the strong chance - that the attacker would be a man. Violence against women is usually done by men.

Personally I would think your average guy is not a violent attacker. However, you can not think male privilege doesn't exist. You can not suggest that there isn't a sliding scale of misogyny in current society from "banter" to attacks.

Also, have a look at twitter today. The number of women talking about the "near-misses" - shows that we shouldn't just be counting the murders and assaults, but all the incidences. How many incidences go unreported because it's shrugged off as laddish behaviour rather than intimidation - which it is.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 14/01/2022 13:56

I'm just aware that most women (and particularly myself as a driver) are many times more likely to die on the way to work than be murdered

Yes but these are likely to be accidents

What we are talking about here is crime

Caiti19 · 14/01/2022 13:56

"wonderful parks (and college campuses) near where I live are often a magnet for antisocial elements, drinking/drugs, stalking, flashers, etc."

I feel part of the problem is that criminal acts are now stamped as "anti-social". They're not anti-social. They're criminal.

Look at this: www.irishpost.com/news/gang-who-pushed-girl-onto-dublin-train-tracks-have-been-terrorising-people-since-last-march-212189

Look at how the girls press the train doors in a panic to get in as they actually expect this violence and they also expect NOTHING to be done to address it. Check out the multiple hateful acts against them in that one short clip.

sillysmiles · 14/01/2022 13:57

*scared - am def not sacred Grin

NearlyAHoarder · 14/01/2022 14:00

@Caiti19 you are right. kicking, threatening, harrassing and abusing girls / women as they just get on a train is a crime. A serious one. If that was labelled anti social i do despair

sillysmiles · 14/01/2022 14:05

I'm just aware that most women (and particularly myself as a driver) are many times more likely to die on the way to work than be murdered

You understand as well that women drivers are more likely to die in a crash than a male driver - because of the default male body being used for crash test dummies and in general women not being considered in the design of cars (or medicine or technology). That is as societal issue. Men didn't go out to deliberately kill women in car crashes - they just didn't consider us at all.
Similarly men in general don't go out to make women afraid but sometimes they are oblivious to the impact their actions have. To them "cat-calling" is just a laugh. Take a joke. To the lone female - it's intimidation. It's an inability to go about your daily life without harassment.
This is why male violence is a societal issue, because it isn't just the violence - which is the extreme end of the scale, but it is the constant low level harassment. Women in general are all ready doing what they can to change this, this is why we also need all men to get behind us an move with this and not to be defensive and feel attacked.

LavenderAskew · 14/01/2022 14:15

It could turn out whoever killed Ashling knew her. The odds are in the favour.

The whole #NotAllMen is pure deflection from the truth (of male violence). There's very few who are blaming all men. This is very obvious on Twitter when "Romanian" was trending just under the not all men hashtag. Because it certainly wasn't trending to say "not all Romanians".

The overlooked Tweet I posted upthread captures the issue there is in gaining a general acceptance in male violence being an issue for everyone. (Think it was overlooked due to how I screen shot it.)

It was all about how men don't get attacked when running because they are physically and mentally superior and ended the post "lol".

NearlyAHoarder · 14/01/2022 14:53

@ToykotoLosAngeles

I'd quite like a hastag to trend alongside NAMALT. Like #butitsalwaysamanwhoisarrestedthough.
Love that.
bythebanksof · 14/01/2022 15:02

@Caiti19 @NearlyAHoarder As you probably know a lot of the anti-social behaviour is essentially ignored by gardai, legal, etc. But for the victims it is very serious.

We'd often get enquires from people who have been victims, about what can be done, when a report to the police has resulted in nothing happening. In Ireland, a policeman calling to your house to give a warning about your child's behaviour would have been considered very seriously by parents in the 80s/90s, but no so today.

Also, based on my 25+ years experience those that do end in court are already well known to authorities with a long string of reports/accusations about them.

Caiti19 · 14/01/2022 15:14

Yes, @bythebanksof. These people get the message from very young that there are zero repercussions to their behaviour. In my book, littering or noise pollution are "anti-social". I've seen headlines in Ireland refer to all sorts of criminal behavior as "anti-social". Makes my blood boil.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/01/2022 15:34

@EightWheelGirl

Criminals are the problem, not men. The fact that the majority happen to be men still doesn't mean that non criminal men are responsible in any way.
They are responsible - they make themselves complicit when they know what their relatives, friends and work colleagues are up to, and enable it.

Example - the murder of Sarah Everard.

trulyconfuseddotcom · 14/01/2022 18:34

@Drinkingallthewine That perfectly encapsulates what we are facing - I just read it aloud to my husband. Thank you for your words.

Pucarbuile · 17/01/2022 15:32

Christ almighty. No not all men, but too fucking many. The horror of a man crashing an online vigil to masterbate at people (I'm guessing mostly women) mourning. Fuck not all men.

Man exposes himself during online vigil for Ashling Murphy (via @IrishTimes) www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-exposes-himself-during-online-vigil-for-ashling-murphy-1.4778518

PaleGreenGhost · 17/01/2022 17:01

[quote Pucarbuile]Christ almighty. No not all men, but too fucking many. The horror of a man crashing an online vigil to masterbate at people (I'm guessing mostly women) mourning. Fuck not all men.

Man exposes himself during online vigil for Ashling Murphy (via @IrishTimes) www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-exposes-himself-during-online-vigil-for-ashling-murphy-1.4778518[/quote]
Jfc!
Until all men make it their business to sort their misogynist bros out (from the cat call to the wanky flasher to the rapist and murderer) then I'm cool to just say "men".

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