Young woman murdered running, what sort of world is this?!?

[irishfarmer]

A young woman was murdered yesterday in Tullamore, Ireland while out for a run at 4pm. It is not a dangerous area, she was on a popular route along the canal, in day light! These things just do not happen here. I am in total shock. It was a random, unprovoked attack. It's just so awful, 23 years old her whole life ahead of her. She was a teacher so had probably just finished work for the day and wanted to de-stress.

AIBU to think this poor girl should have been able to go for a run on a lovely winter afternoon safely? I know I am not BU just don't know where else to post. I am truly shocked and horrified.

@EightWheelGirl

I don't hate women. I hate modern feminist rhetoric and identity politics. Alongside the vast majority of young women.

Translation:

I hate that feminists expressing their views and are being heard.

And don’t pretend the vast majority of young women agree with you.

I hate modern feminist rhetoric and identity politics. Alongside the vast majority of young women.

Why??

Statistical more men are killed by men.

However, many of those victims tend to be involved in gangland activities. That doesn't stop them being people, but their lifestyles greatly increased their risk.
Most women who are killed by men, were not.

[quote Dottybackorcid]@Yebbie How can my argument be invalid with statistics that back it up. Your just one of those hysterical haters [/quote]
I'm not going to lie - I dislike men as a sex group, even though I'm married to one.

I was raped by an ex at 16 and at 19, chased up the street by a stranger determined to flash his penis at me and in the same year, another stranger assaulted me on a bus.

Why should give a huffing chuff about the feelings of men when the priority here is clearly to tackle the sexual entitlement of so many of the feckers?

MURDER by strange men may be rare - assault by them is far more common than you might think

I think all men are the problem, or 95% of them. Where are the strong men? The masculine men? Where is the strong protective instinct. The physically and emotionally well, fit, healthy and resilient men? Those willing to take risks, stick their neck out, stand up for their families, for women and for those who need their protection. Where is community? Too many timid men, look the other way men. If men took pride in being men, then there wouldn’t be as many predators and the ones you still got wouldn’t stand a chance, something would be done about them. Don’t just lecture boys on being kind to girls, don’t be negative about maleness. Raise boys with great mentors, male role models, community, courage, integrity, passion and strength. People raise boys the same as girls these days and it’s not good, as if by trying to make them more feminine we will make them less potentially dangerous. It’s causing a lot of damage.

@DorothyZbornakIsAQueen with regards to that G.Greer quote - but why do they hate us? Why do they want to hurt us? This isn’t at all a victim blaming/it must be our fault question. Of course it isn’t, and nothing could excuse violence to women. But there must be reasons and contributing factors? What’s going wrong for men, where does it come from? I feel men have come very far generally from what it means to be a man.

@EightWheelGirl

You are so fucking boring.

Day after day all you do is defend the poor menz.
Don’t you have anything better to do?

@Lesserspottedmama

I think all men are the problem, or 95% of them. Where are the strong men? The masculine men? Where is the strong protective instinct. The physically and emotionally well, fit, healthy and resilient men? Those willing to take risks, stick their neck out, stand up for their families, for women and for those who need their protection. Where is community? Too many timid men, look the other way men. If men took pride in being men, then there wouldn’t be as many predators and the ones you still got wouldn’t stand a chance, something would be done about them. Don’t just lecture boys on being kind to girls, don’t be negative about maleness. Raise boys with great mentors, male role models, community, courage, integrity, passion and strength. People raise boys the same as girls these days and it’s not good, as if by trying to make them more feminine we will make them less potentially dangerous. It’s causing a lot of damage.

I agree, what we need is for it to be seen as alpha to stand up to locker room misogyny.

But men just chuckle and think don't let '''the wife'' hear this.

I've thought for a long time that the next women's aid campaign needs to work to create this shift in thinking.

All of the donations, all of the vigils, all of the sponsored walks, it's all women rallying around women. We are told we are bitchy and we hate other women by men. We don't.

But men just SHRUG over the culture that green lights raping and killing.

@Lesserspottedmama

I think all men are the problem, or 95% of them. Where are the strong men? The masculine men? Where is the strong protective instinct. The physically and emotionally well, fit, healthy and resilient men? Those willing to take risks, stick their neck out, stand up for their families, for women and for those who need their protection. Where is community? Too many timid men, look the other way men. If men took pride in being men, then there wouldn’t be as many predators and the ones you still got wouldn’t stand a chance, something would be done about them. Don’t just lecture boys on being kind to girls, don’t be negative about maleness. Raise boys with great mentors, male role models, community, courage, integrity, passion and strength. People raise boys the same as girls these days and it’s not good, as if by trying to make them more feminine we will make them less potentially dangerous. It’s causing a lot of damage.

So what makes you think men can prevent a random murderer, they are going to kill you f they are that way out no matter who talks to them. Do you expect other men to go out and patrol the streets in vigilante style? Both male and female humans get murdered daily through out the world murder's will kill no matter what.

Also saying men should intervene, yes great, how many posts were on MN when a middle age man had his head copped off in broad daylight by two teenagers for trying to intervene.

All the posts here by all the feminist just make normal people look away. You do a disservice to every woman, by spouting never ending crap about punishing all men and pushing online abuse to all men. You think that makes any positive difference? You think it encourages any one to act differently, no your feeding anger in some against others.

Continue to accuse and blame the decent people for the actions of evil people in life will just go against your cause. But you won't care all you want is a male bashing echo chamber well good luck, your achieving nothing zero 🙄.

Don't worry I know the posts that will quote this ant it will be MN usual possy of men haters, so go for it I'll just 🙄.

@Kanaloa

Okay. I’m going to disengage because I honestly think it’s impossible to educate two people who come on a thread about a man killing a woman in broad daylight to complain about feminist rhetoric, say ‘not all men,’ and suggest that somehow this isn’t a male problem because women also commit (a tiny tiny tiny minority of) violent crimes.

Clearly your understanding of the issue is deeply flawed. I hope men are very happy they have you to protect them from having their feelings hurt by discussions of male violence.

Well said. Oh and FYI @Dottybackorcid @EightWheelGirl it’s not exactly too much to ask that men stop scaring/harassing/groping/sexually assaulting/murdering women.

I can’t believe how pathetic you are coming in a thread about a young girl who is now lying DEAD in her living room surrounded by her grieving family and you just want to whinge about hurting mens feelings. Jesus Christ.

Oh and FYI @Dottybackorcid @EightWheelGirl it’s not exactly too much to ask that men stop scaring/harassing/groping/sexually assaulting/murdering women.

I agree. It's also not much to ask that people stop stealing cars, committing online fraud, taking drugs, bullying, having affairs, etc. A rational person knows this will never happen, which makes me wonder if some people just love having a continual and neverending thing to whinge about.

I can’t believe how pathetic you are coming in a thread about a young girl who is now lying DEAD in her living room surrounded by her grieving family and you just want to whinge about hurting mens feelings. Jesus Christ.

I can't believe how pathetic you are to use this as a vehicle to spout your sexist man hating agenda. It's actually worse than my comments as I only commented after you'd already derailed things. By turning it into an argument about whether innocent men are responsible we derail from the important topic of how to prevent it happening again. Focusing on blaming not preventing reoccurrence.

@Lesserspottedmama

Don’t just lecture boys on being kind to girls, don’t be negative about maleness. Raise boys with great mentors, male role models, community, courage, integrity, passion and strength. People raise boys the same as girls these days and it’s not good, as if by trying to make them more feminine we will make them less potentially dangerous. It’s causing a lot of damage.

You talk about people raising boys the same as girls, and how this is a terrible thing and damages boys. I'd like to see evidence for this assertion.

My opinion on this is that we should be looking for the common ground and the shared humanity between women and men, rather than send a message that men are some separate species that are in thrall to their physical superiority over women and who need to be noticeably masculine to be successful members of society.

All people in a society need to be able to show a certain amount of empathy for others, particularly anyone potentially more vulnerable than them. That's not a feminine trait. Not being violent isn't a feminine trait. I know so many men and boys who are perfectly capable of being non-violent and non-aggressive consistently, just as I know many women and girls who are the same. It's a human trait that men and women are just as capable of developing.

@Lesserspottedmama

I think all men are the problem, or 95% of them. Where are the strong men? The masculine men? Where is the strong protective instinct. The physically and emotionally well, fit, healthy and resilient men? Those willing to take risks, stick their neck out, stand up for their families, for women and for those who need their protection. Where is community? Too many timid men, look the other way men. If men took pride in being men, then there wouldn’t be as many predators and the ones you still got wouldn’t stand a chance, something would be done about them. Don’t just lecture boys on being kind to girls, don’t be negative about maleness. Raise boys with great mentors, male role models, community, courage, integrity, passion and strength. People raise boys the same as girls these days and it’s not good, as if by trying to make them more feminine we will make them less potentially dangerous. It’s causing a lot of damage.

These types of men are becoming fewer and fewer as wokeism is increasing. And feminists don't tend to like chivalry, seeing it as patronising.

The worse thing about the 'not all men crowd' is that they think they are being really edgy and incisive by saying it.

The scale of male violence is so scary to comprehend that you can only make excuses as to why it's not so big a deal.

There's no need for "chivalry" (since when are we in medieval times??), if people can manage some basic humanity and general good manners. Men don't need to pretend to be a knight at King Arthur's court in order to treat other people with respect!

The worse thing about the 'not all men crowd' is that they think they are being really edgy and incisive by saying it.

No, I just dislike seeing people spouting hate against a whole demographic because of the actions of a small minority of criminals. You'd never dare generalise about black people in regard to knife crime etc so why are men acceptable targets for discrimination.

The scale of murders etc is actually tiny in proportion to the population.

@EightWheelGirl

The worse thing about the 'not all men crowd' is that they think they are being really edgy and incisive by saying it.

No, I just dislike seeing people spouting hate against a whole demographic because of the actions of a small minority of criminals. You'd never dare generalise about black people in regard to knife crime etc so why are men acceptable targets for discrimination.

I have never ever seen anyone ever say all men anyway, no one needs to say 'not all men' because it's blatantly obvious. Also btw you just did generalise about black people...

You'd never dare generalise about black people in regard to knife crime etc so why are men acceptable targets for discrimination.

Are there regular instances of ‘black people’ preying exclusively on another more oppressed social group at random for their own gratification? No. No, there aren’t.

You won’t find anyone else drawing that comparison because it’s idiotic.

@EightWheelGirl

The scale of murders etc is actually tiny in proportion to the population.

I mean ... to come on a thread about a murdered young woman and say this is tone deaf in the extreme. Bloody hell.

I think all of us who care about that poor girl as opposed to ‘hurting the poor menz feelings’ should just leave this thread as it’s been hijacked. I would nearly ask mumsnet to delete it in case the poor family come across it and see how disgusting poster s are being. We couldn’t even have one page talking about it before it got hijacked by the ‘not all men’ brigade.

I think it’s better to ignore @EightWheelGirl

He clearly gets off on this attention.

By turning it into an argument about whether innocent men are responsible we derail from the important topic of how to prevent it happening again. Focusing on blaming not preventing reoccurrence.

The most disingenuous thing I've ever seen on MN. /hats off

Anyone who perpetuates, laughs along with or turns a blind eye to the denigration, humiliation or dehumanisation of women is not innocent.

It is really is shocking. Working in legal area for many years, I thought I'd get used to it, but I have not, and that's a good thing. The poor girl, and her family and friends. Heartbroken.

When the murderer is found, he will be found to have a history of violence and sexual inappropriate behaviour, that will be well known to family, and friends, and perhaps work colleagues.

Most of the time these spaces are totally safe, until they are not. The sad thing is wonderful parks (and college campuses) near where I live are often a magnet for antisocial elements, drinking/drugs, stalking, flashers, etc. In my field, I'd be much more aware of this than others.

The "notallmen" thing really pisses me off.

For some reason, I get an awful feeling that the perpetrator may be closer to home than realised. Just a feeling, but no matter who killed her it is disgusting.