Grandson has too much screen time, is it my place to say?

[Halloweencat]

I think my 5 year old grandson has too much screen time on a children's ipad. From what I've read it can be damaging to their eyes. His development is normal & he's doing very well at school. AIBU to say something, or tell him to put it down?

We just spend a week with our PIL and the kids had a tonne of screen time. Why? - a combination of needing down time from Xmas excitement and, honestly time away from the PIL who although v interested in their GC are not actually that good with them. Overly controlling, unwilling to be led by them, rigid about wanting to stick to THEIR routines. To get the kids through that, and for me to have some downtime from managing the kids to enable good interactions with the PIL they watched plenty each day.

In day to day life we have time limits and a couple of screen free days each week.

My MIL has expressed her disapproval of the screens. Maybe next time I’ll respond that THEY generate much of the need for them.

We could do screen free visits with PILs if they would fall in with what our family needs and not freak out when the kids play up.

If you want to do something, no don’t say something to the parents.

Do ask the child if they’d like to do something with you. Throw yourself with gusto into whatever they ask. In theory the PIL want to play with our kids. But they won’t be less by their choices so it often doesn’t get off the ground.

We had a very, very similar experience with my PILs, who similarly expressed disapproval of the amount of screen time my son was getting. During their visit he had many hours a day. In day-to-day life he doesn’t get even a fraction of that, but their visit necessitated it - partly because, like your PILs, they really aren’t very good with him (inflexible, put their own wants and needs and routine ahead of his, etc) and partly because of the strain of hosting fairly unhelpful and demanding guests alongside looking after young children.

When did grandparents get so precious? Tell the child to get off his ipad since you want to play a game with him. Ignore the sulks. It's the adults who tell the children what to do, not vice versa.

@Flickflak

Ten pages of defensiveness and it not being a grandparent’s place to raise concerns about their grandchildren. When did everyone get so precious?

Agreed. Clearly hitting a nerve with many

I just don't believe that screen time is a particular issue if a child is being otherwise cared for and stimulated. Just like you wouldn't say a big mac is the worst thing in the world if a child is otherwise eating a good range of home-cooked food.

Yes, this reminds me of a recent thread on when to add salt to a child's food and about 100 posters jumped on the thread saying they NEVER EVER add salt to their children's or their own food. Imagine how restrictive and dull your life must be if you don't even season food in an attempt to avoid something that is only marginally harmful to health.

If you then take into account the statistics that 33% of adults in the UK are obese, 20% are unvaccinated, 15% smoke and 20% of children have experienced physical or sexual abuse then there are much worse evils to be tackled before the small things even become an issue. It's often a case of people fixating on an insignificant element of virtue signalling like screen time but the same kids are witnessing fighting parents, inhaling cigarette smoke, are obese or have caught covid because their parents are anti-maskers.

It's virtually impossible to raise a perfect child and many rules like no screen time or strict dietary restrictions do more harm than good. The happiest and well-adjusted adults I know are those who, as children, were allowed to indulge in mainstream trends so they felt like they belonged to the norm. This includes being allowed to watch TV, play video games, have a mobile phone, eat sweets, getting the latest overhyped plastic toy etc.

All the ones from strict families that put time limits on screens, forbid junk food or generally partaking in popular culture ended up insecure, unhappy and working through serious MH issues as adults.

@SarahAndQuack
How is asking if too much screen time can be harmful to children's eyes be considered bad manners? Especially when at work us adults are advised by H&S to take regular breaks from screens? And if the consensus of opinion/evidence is that it is harmful to the eyes then I can't see any problem in asking my adult child, with whom I have a very close relationship, if they are aware of it.
Would you accept an invitation to meet a friend & they then spent the whole time with you on their phone & be happy with that? I don't think so...

This is a long read, but should caution against us thinking that screen time isn't a problem. I very much recognised myself in this article. My concentration is shot, and I'm sure it's down to my screen use. And I didn't get to use screens until middle age.

www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/02/attention-span-focus-screens-apps-smartphones-social-media?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Actually I think it's pretty sad and rude for a 5 yr old to spend 2 hours on an ipad with familiy visiting. At 5 I wouldn't have let them have that much time in one go anyway - and would defnitely not have done so with grandparents visiting. Fine if to occupy while mum cooks dinner but they have other adults offering to take the child off the ipad.

As it happens the matter was resolved on its own. It was removed from dgs by his dm bevsuse he was ignoring everyone when spoken to, as he was so engrossed in it. This is a problem with screens, they are addictive.
After that he engaged with us all, had fun playing with us & the world was right again

2 hours a day for a 5 year old is clearly too much. Plenty of studies to back it up, as well as kids becoming myopic earlier, and there is more research happening all the time looking at links to attention span (Johann Hari's written a new book about it).

But as you can see by responses here, personal device screen time is one of the things you're simply not allowed to mention in any negative manner.

Screens shut kids up and parents love that.

@saraclara
Thank you for this article. I also watched a documentary where former Silicone Valley employees admitted that a lot of apps were designer to get the user hooked.

@wishmyhousetidy

some of posters on mumsnet seem so aggressive it’s almost amusing. Of course it is up to the parents the amount of screen time allowed but is it so offensive for a grandparent to suggest it’s too much? If the grandmother was wrestling it out of the child’s hand then fair enough but to just suggest it’s too much isn’t the end of the world surely

No it isn't too much. Some people on here are nasty aggressive posters see it a lot . Same old. Ignore em OP I get where you're coming from.

[quote Halloweencat]@SarahAndQuack
How is asking if too much screen time can be harmful to children's eyes be considered bad manners? Especially when at work us adults are advised by H&S to take regular breaks from screens? And if the consensus of opinion/evidence is that it is harmful to the eyes then I can't see any problem in asking my adult child, with whom I have a very close relationship, if they are aware of it.
Would you accept an invitation to meet a friend & they then spent the whole time with you on their phone & be happy with that? I don't think so...[/quote]
It's bad manners to criticise someone else's parenting. It always has been.

There is no consensus that it's harmful to the eyes - you're cherry-picking information in a way that I would find quite bullying. That's not you being polite, concerned grandmother. That's you trying to give your daughter the message you think she's wrong and you won't take discussion of it.

In response to your last question - well, I don't treat my friends like five year olds, which I think might carry a lesson for you. I do see it's difficult. But your child is grown up. They are no longer your five year old, and you should be able to distinguish between the way it's appropriate to treat a child (and the behaviour you expect of a child), and the way you treat an adult.

I do think a child on a screen when family are around could be rude, btw (just as a child playing with lego or reading and ignoring everyone would be rude). But two wrongs don't make a right.

[quote saraclara]This is a long read, but should caution against us thinking that screen time isn't a problem. I very much recognised myself in this article. My concentration is shot, and I'm sure it's down to my screen use. And I didn't get to use screens until middle age.

www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/02/attention-span-focus-screens-apps-smartphones-social-media?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other[/quote]
I'm sorry, but people have been writing (non scientific, anecdotal) pieces about how attention spans are shot for, quite literally, millennia. Pliny the Elder talks about how the druids believed the development of writing had ruined everyone's memories.

OTOH, there is a considerable amount of research that looks at why memory and concentration decline with age.

You are right to be concerned about too much screen time. It's not good for children and we know that. The trouble is that today most parents lead very busy lives and get little down time. So a tablet can be a godsend at times. It's an easy option. I suspect that, if you were of a younger generation, you would also give in to temptation and handover a tablet in order to make your life easier. And that is why you probably shouldn't be say anything, otherwise it could come over as you being preachy. Most kids have more scheduled activities today so lead fairly busy lives too. So whilst they are spending time on tablets, they will also be likely signed up to lots of other activities. And tablets are often more interactive and educational than being sat in front of the TV. It's not all bad.

Shocked at the replies you are getting op.
Takes a village and all that.
If my mum told me she thought dd was getting too much screen time l would totally take that on board.
One of those not what you say, it's the way you say it type situations.

@SarahAndQuack
I have shown concern & asked questions about eye damage from screens, & screen addiction to the detriment of social interaction. I have not criticised anyone's parenting. Indeed, I have stated that he is a happy boy & doing well at school, which comes from good parenting.
Bullying 😅 I have no words, I bid you goodnight.

@Halloweencat

As it happens the matter was resolved on its own. It was removed from dgs by his dm bevsuse he was ignoring everyone when spoken to, as he was so engrossed in it. This is a problem with screens, they are addictive. After that he engaged with us all, had fun playing with us & the world was right again

That's great, sounds like a very much loved and well cared for little boy.

These days tablets are the new books

I am a nurse and often have to have this discussion with parents. The royal college of paediatrics recommends no more than two hours a day of screen time for children.

Those on here saying it does no harm aren’t really correct.
Two much screen time can impact on eyesight, it can impede development of fine motor skills as children are missing out on activities which help these develop such as building Lego, drawing, Hama beads etc, it can delay important social skills, it doesn’t teach sharing and taking turns like a board game, it can contribute to obesity as children are not as physically active. The games/videos are very stimulating and impact on sleep if played later in the day, the stimulation also means that “normal” games and activities are boring in comparison, which creates addiction to the screen - the games are designed specifically to keep children playing. If this child is playing in a separate room to the parent, who is monitoring him? How does the parent know he isn’t chatting to people, potentially adults pretending to be children? There is also the lack of learning how to emotionally regulate and containment which a screen does not provide, but playing a game with a parent does. I am quite astounded at the vote of only 8% saying you are not being unreasonable - opposed to 92% thinking that limiting screen time is not necessary.

@Halloweencat
As a caring grandparent asking a question and seeking information, I think you have been treated very unfairly and rudely, maybe the respondents are an example of spending too much time online and haven’t developed their social skills properly.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/health-impacts-screen-time-guide-clinicians-parents

[quote Halloweencat]@SarahAndQuack
I have shown concern & asked questions about eye damage from screens, & screen addiction to the detriment of social interaction. I have not criticised anyone's parenting. Indeed, I have stated that he is a happy boy & doing well at school, which comes from good parenting.
Bullying 😅 I have no words, I bid you goodnight.[/quote]
Ah, I see.

This is one of those 'agree with me and otherwise I will throw a tantrum' threads.

Good luck with your family.

@Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin
Thank you, I agree very much. The question has to be raised in a certain way, rather than blundering in with both feet & upsetting people. I also accept that times & technology changes. Thinking about it I suppose in a way it's just the same as back in the 70's we used to watch Swap Shop all Saturday morning (ah the good old days 😄)

Why didn't you just take away the ipad yourself? Why wait 2 hours for his mum to appear from the kitchen?

I only give my ds screen time when he’s with GP to make taking care of him easier. He gets zero screentime any other time. Could it be a similar situation?

Ah @Halloweencat it’s clear though, you weren’t asking IN GENERAL if he had too much screen time out of concern for your grandson .

No, you meant: I’m here visiting and he wants to do that instead of spending time with me (and the parents allow it). But you’ve hidden that behind ‘concern for your grandchild ’

So the parents have addressed it. Great! They are good parents! You don’t need to worry.

You should remember, too, that the 5 year old DIDNT ask you around. His parents did. And he may honestly prefer to do something else other than spend time with you. And at five he isn’t going to hide that. But his parents have stepped in. All good.

The takeaway for you here is to reflect on your dishonest thinking.

I hope you didn’t say anything to his parents, as your ‘concern’ was a passive aggressive disguise for what was really going on - you were offended by your grandson’s behaviour.

Looking for validation in your grandchild’s behaviour is a mistake OP.

@Halloweencat it’s none of your business and if I was told this by either my mother or now ex mil I would have told them swiftly where they could go and that they’ve had their time of parenting their own kids - not mine!

My daughter has autism and uses her tablet for her communication and to tell people what she wants, keeps her calm etc, but still does her normal day activities with it on in the background - some days it’s the tablet that gets us both through the day especially with a lot of health conditions myself - so if someone raised this with me I would probably go into one for people judging a situation without being in it!

I really do hate interfering family members!