To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

I read about one in Sweden where this guy dismembered a woman that he had been lying in wait for when she was out jogging and then joined in the search for her. Sick bastard. Then he claimed to be a woman and was transferred to a female prison where many inmates have their children living. Absolutely sickening that this is allowed. Oh and OF COURSE men will take advantage of it, especially sex offenders. If you had a choice between a male and a female prison and you didn’t have to even have a medical diagnosis, of course you’d take it.

YANBU

I saw an article of the "woman" you linked to a couple of weeks ago and it was like the newspaper was trying hard to convince everyone that it really was a woman by not mentioning once it was a trans woman when normally the would post something along the lines of "Sally, a trans woman/ a recently transitioned woman, Sally who was born a man but now identifies as a woman" etc. No one in the comments was convinced "she" was a biological woman though. I did wonder which prison they would go to.

YANBU #NotOurCrimes

Yanbu identified as a male and placed in a male prison if convicted and sentenced to custody

This is from Professor of Criminology James Treadwell on Twitter - and every woman should read this and decide whether it's in our interests that predatory men are able to identify as whatever the hell they like.

@James_Treadwell
·
27 Dec 2021
"The idea that sex offenders are manipulative individuals who would exploit systems and laws could only be unreal to those who do not know how manipulative sexual offenders can be. All groom, seek to exploit and control. It's different, They have different plays, but all do it.

I sat across from sex offender who swore to me he wasn't working, he left my office to attend a children's charity disco his was supposed to be DJ at. A child rapist, "It is my right to practice my Bhuddist faith, and I should be allowed to travel to Thailand". (Hmm, no)

Some.academics say concerns over "supposed" threat of trans identities reveal lingering anti-trans sentiment. Do they? No. I know Trans people face massive abuse, I see that too. Both can be true. Yet still I am not sold in any way that Gender Self ID is as simple as some suggest

Bad law happens, bad legislation without consideration does have risk, and in this instance of Gender Self ID to me, the concern is also understandable. Of course some views may come from predudice. But not all. In my view if those who support Gender Self ID want to see change...

then there is a need to address concerns head on, and not simply claim they are not real, not empirically grounded or merely anecdotal. To me the issue here is the danger that Trans identity is used as cover for harmful individuals. That is in no one's interest.

Least of all Trans people. No community is made stronger internally or externally by association, real or implied with the most selfish, narcassistic, harmful and individuals, many of whom get off on causing pain to others around them. Who wants those people in their group?

My experiences are limited, but I have met and dealt with a lot more nasty, violent and dangerous preditory male sexual offenders than most people have. That is the group driving my concern. What I know of them as a group, there is NO rule or opportunity they will not exploit

It isn't about trans people, it's about bad people who will exploit the law from self interest and work within a legal framework (that could protect women's spaces) to do as they want and get what they want. You think that won't happen, you don't know how many sex offenders act."

Naive people can be just as dangerous because they are so keen to be nice they can end up enabling predators.

@WandaWomblesaurus73
It isn't about trans people, it's about bad people who will exploit the law from self interest and work within a legal framework (that could protect women's spaces) to do as they want and get what they want.

I think this is the crux of the matter, as a society we need to learn to separate the concepts, being against self ID should not be perceived as being transgender phobic.

Defending women’s right to safe spaces, doesn’t need to be seen as being transphobic either as the fight is not against transgender women but against men, with no who are not really transgender, identifying freely as women.

Joining both concepts together as if they were the same is massively unfair both to women and real transgender people.

I've read (but now can't find the reference) qualified forensic psychologists who say much what Prof. Treadwell writes about, and add that some men will use overly lax (or Stonewalled) misunderstandings of 'trans' to get into the female prison estate, as

• access to women in close & intimate circumstances;
• perceived easier conditions and more freedom
• sense of power and control ('getting one over' authorities)

It's also instructive to look at what Frances cRook, long time leader of the Howard League for Penal Reform has said about male-bodied transgender prisoners in the female estate. (Sorry everyoe, it's the GUardian):
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/09/sexual-assaults-in-womens-prison-reignite-debate-over-transgender-inmates-karen-white

"Frances Crook, the chief executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform, said vulnerable women were being put at risk by a small number of violent men whose primary interest was harming women."

and

“It is a very toxic debate, but I think prisons have probably been influenced by some of the extreme conversations and have been bullied into making some decisions that have harmed women and put staff in an extremely difficult position,” she said.

It is not a toxic debate to say that female people have the right not to lose their privacy, dignity, safety and basic human right to not be harassed and assaulted by any male person on the grounds that to do so makes the male person happier and validates his chosen gender identity. To insist that male people must have this access even when they have been convicted of serious sexual offenses against women? It's not toxic, it's fucking insane, inhuman and the scandal of this century.

When did the people leading this country get so confused about basic right and wrong?

@TeaAndStrumpets

As I said on another thread, one can see at a glance from a photo. The newspapers can publish a picture whereas they are not allowed to state the offender's true sex in the written report. The information is put out there. So partially sighted/blind people who rely on text to speech software are discriminated against and misled because they don't have that visual clue.

Gosh, that had never even occurred to me.

@Thelnebriati

Naive people can be just as dangerous because they are so keen to be nice they can end up enabling predators.

That's the whole "Be Kind" command that has now turned into "Be Kind to rapists"

@Ionlydomassiveones

I think committing such a male crime should prohibit their claim to be trans as they are not in good faith ‘living as a woman’. I’ve never understood what ‘living as a woman’ means, but the one single thing you can’t do as a woman is rape another one with a penis.

I don't careally if they want to call themselves 'trans'. What no man, sex offender or not, should ever be able to do is call themselves a woman. Men are not women and never can be and the GRA should be repealed.

If a penis is involved in sexual assault it's very strange to call the perpetrator a woman.

Something we will hear a lot more of now is "but women rape too"
In whose interests is to obscure statistics on who is committing sexual based crimes more often?

@WandaWomblesaurus73

Something we will hear a lot more of now is "but women rape too" In whose interests is to obscure statistics on who is committing sexual based crimes more often?

It’s the absurd extension of the gaslighting that is TWAW.

@WandaWomblesaurus73

Something we will hear a lot more of now is "but women rape too" In whose interests is to obscure statistics on who is committing sexual based crimes more often?

It makes me so angry. The word woman should NEVER be redefined to include men. No aspect of that redefinition benefits women. NONE. Pretty much every aspect of that redefinition actively harms women.

they shouldnt be called female words at all if they had done a crime or not, they are a subset of males not females.

stick to being called trans isnt that the definer? I would say maybe they should have their own fixed pronouns like instead of she, xer or zer but then we all confused enough already.

maybe all of em, all the gender ideologists should be one pronoun X or something simple to show they are not him or her, that way you get the NBs too and we arent all ordered to remember individual peoples individual pronouns, as if anyone is going to remember all that, personally it takes me about 3 months just to remember peoples names.

I honestly can't get too worked up about whether a rapist believes they are male or female. Clearly I'm in the minority but to me the term #notourcrimes applies because I'm one of the people who has never committed rape or sexual assault, not because I'm female.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

To me it doesn't matter whether crime statistics are skewed by so-called "female" rapists. What matters is that rapes aren't committed, and if they do that the offender is locked up. Suggesting it is harmful that a transgender rapist has their crime recorded as a female one implies that the victim is less of a victim because their attacker was "only" a woman. I'd suggest many rape victims are traumatised by the crime itself, which prison their attacker ends up in and which list the crime is recorded on is only a minor concern.

Society has evolved and now believes that someone can become a member of the gender they were not born as. Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's where we are. There were similar arguments when rights for homosexuals were being promoted decades ago - they were identified and treated differently in prison because they were deemed at greater risk of attacking others. If we believe a person has the right to choose their sexuality, now their gender, we must allow them that right without limitation. We can't say "well you can live as a woman except when it comes to playing sport or going to prison" - either a man can transition to become a woman, or they can't.

@MorningStarling

I honestly can't get too worked up about whether a rapist believes they are male or female. Clearly I'm in the minority but to me the term #notourcrimes applies because I'm one of the people who has never committed rape or sexual assault, not because I'm female.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

To me it doesn't matter whether crime statistics are skewed by so-called "female" rapists. What matters is that rapes aren't committed, and if they do that the offender is locked up. Suggesting it is harmful that a transgender rapist has their crime recorded as a female one implies that the victim is less of a victim because their attacker was "only" a woman. I'd suggest many rape victims are traumatised by the crime itself, which prison their attacker ends up in and which list the crime is recorded on is only a minor concern.

Society has evolved and now believes that someone can become a member of the gender they were not born as. Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's where we are. There were similar arguments when rights for homosexuals were being promoted decades ago - they were identified and treated differently in prison because they were deemed at greater risk of attacking others. If we believe a person has the right to choose their sexuality, now their gender, we must allow them that right without limitation. We can't say "well you can live as a woman except when it comes to playing sport or going to prison" - either a man can transition to become a woman, or they can't.

Wow. So you don't care if women are raped in prison by men who are pretending to be transgender, it serves them right and being raped in prison is a deterrent?

It's not unknown for the media to report other or previous names a person has been known by, so I see no reason why they can't in cases where the person has transitioned.

There is no difference between the reporting of (for instance) someone called Joe Bloggs, previously known as John Smith, and another person called Jane Bloggs, previously know as John Smith. Gender/sex is irrelevant.

So why the media can't/won't do that is anybody's guess.

YANBU . It is outrageous.

@MorningStarling

I honestly can't get too worked up about whether a rapist believes they are male or female. Clearly I'm in the minority but to me the term #notourcrimes applies because I'm one of the people who has never committed rape or sexual assault, not because I'm female.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

To me it doesn't matter whether crime statistics are skewed by so-called "female" rapists. What matters is that rapes aren't committed, and if they do that the offender is locked up. Suggesting it is harmful that a transgender rapist has their crime recorded as a female one implies that the victim is less of a victim because their attacker was "only" a woman. I'd suggest many rape victims are traumatised by the crime itself, which prison their attacker ends up in and which list the crime is recorded on is only a minor concern.

Society has evolved and now believes that someone can become a member of the gender they were not born as. Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's where we are. There were similar arguments when rights for homosexuals were being promoted decades ago - they were identified and treated differently in prison because they were deemed at greater risk of attacking others. If we believe a person has the right to choose their sexuality, now their gender, we must allow them that right without limitation. We can't say "well you can live as a woman except when it comes to playing sport or going to prison" - either a man can transition to become a woman, or they can't.

You seem to inhabit a different moral universe to the rest of us. I'm trying my best to phrase this politely.

Maybe @MorningStarling inhabits a Stephen King book.