To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

@sst1234

The mat ignorant are the women who defend this misogyny. Do they not see what they sleep walking into. How can any woman defend this? Would really like to hear a coherent argument for a women as to why she is happy to have her safety trampled on. It’s like a kamikaze mentality.

Internalised misogyny and extreme privilege. Most women I know who think this stuff is okay are middle class, often went to all girls or private schools and work in professions where their male colleagues are fairly well behaved. Lots of them also resent other women, especially older women. I’ve heard some of them say that they’d rather share spaces with their ‘trans sisters’ than ‘TERFs’. They close their eyes and ears to the prison thing - to them literally all transwomen are Hayley from Corrie.

I think most women I know including myself are very supportive of trans people. However the boundary pushing to be point of abandoning all safeguarding measures put in place specifically because of predatory male violence and sexual assault, cannot be allowed to continue.

We cannot allow manipulative men to hitch themselves to a cause in order to enable their fetishes - which mostly manifest in pretending they are women. These men are certainly not safe to be near women and children in intimate settings.

With self ID ANY man can say he is a woman and we have no choice - we have to move over and allow him access to us, access to our daughters. The media have be told to "kill" stories if need be - see below from the The Trans Journalist Association - which is advising news writers to "kill" stories on trans criminals, censor detransitioners, and erase references to biological sex as a reality.

Their style guide is currently being utilized by multiple major media outlets.

transjournalists.org/style-guide/

"Don’t ask for or publish a person’s criminal history unless it’s completely relevant.
Be aware that trans people are disproportionately criminalized and policed. If the person you’re reporting on has a criminal record, reporting that information could have consequences for that person. For instance, it could make it harder for an individual to find work. Reporting on that criminal record also perpetuates stereotypes about trans people. If that history is not relevant to the story, you should not report it. If it is, you should consult with the individual about whether they are comfortable with that information being published. Before proceeding, discuss the potential negative impact publishing such information could have on them. You may need to find a different source or give the source anonymity if you cannot proceed with the story without publishing their criminal history. Publishing such information is rarely in the public interest. Consider killing a story if you have no alternatives."

YADNBU. The number of blinkers middle class women supporters have over this issue annoy me. Women are at risk from men.

And if that style guide was deliberately intended to annoy by way of contrast to the attitudes to women, particularly those reporting crimes against them, it’s succeeded very well.

There’s a definite change in perception of these issues. I’m sure I am not the only one who remembers the general acceptance that “TWAW!” and MNetters were bigoted/unkind etc if they queried these assertions, and that was right here on MN. I remember multiple “disgusted” posts and requests for this kind of transphobia and bigotry to be only discussed on the feminist boards so that decent, kindly people didn’t have to read it. Now here we are where those attempting to discuss two or three years ago, knew we’d be and there’s rarely a “oh just be kind!” post now. I do wonder sometimes if those who were so happy to give away women spaces and call “bigot!” are shocked by how far it’s come?

DeepaBeesKit

‘Yanbu. It really fucks statistics too if these crimes get recorded as committed by women.’

The incel movement will soon point to said statistics and claim that women are raping men.

What then?

YANBU

So women won’t be able to point to statistics that prove that the majority of sexual/ violent assaults are perpetrated by men - and therefore why sex spaces are needed to keep women safe- because men who are pretending to be women are having their crimes recorded as by women.
And when they go to prison they get to go into the female estate where more women are at risk.
Have I missed out any more boundaries around women that are being eroded by this?
#NotOurCrimes

Of course they should be named as men. It is absurd to suggest that anyone who rapes using their penis, that they were born with, is a trans person suffering dysphoria. It is grotesquely offensive to those with dysphoria who are trying to navigate their lives and will cause transphobia and lead to a bigoted opinion that many transpeople are perverts. Those trans persons with dysphoria need to stand up and fight these perverts who are using their trauma to justify rape and abuse.

@YouSetTheTone

So women won’t be able to point to statistics that prove that the majority of sexual/ violent assaults are perpetrated by men - and therefore why sex spaces are needed to keep women safe- because men who are pretending to be women are having their crimes recorded as by women. And when they go to prison they get to go into the female estate where more women are at risk. Have I missed out any more boundaries around women that are being eroded by this? #NotOurCrimes

At every stage, ask yourself:

which identifiable group benefits?
which identifiable group loses?
Is there a consistent pattern here?
what is the key characteristic that identifies the winners and the losers? (clue: it is not being trans. TM are not permitted this movement between estates at all.)
what do we call it when one characteristic is consistently given higher priority, importance, legal rights and privilege over another?

Is this an acceptable thing in a modern society that is supposed to care about equality of human rights?

Imo, a lot of people who are trans-rights activists try to pretend that it’s only a tiny minority of ultra-religious trad-wife types who don’t welcome penises into their spaces. See for instance that car-crash interview with Ellie-Mae O’Hagan where she kept saying ‘the majority of women agree with me’.

This thread and many others shows that this is bullshit. Most women are not happy for any bloke to claim a female identity and share intimate spaces with them. Many had little idea until recently that very few transwomen, even those with gender dysphoria, have their genitals removed. On tv, most transwomen are played by biological females, creating a public perception that transwomen are physically indistinguishable from women. The reality is very very different.

I know someone who has recently transitioned. He (because he is male) is 6’2” with a very stocky build, visibly male and no amount of hormones will change that. No woman would realistically see him as female. There is no ambiguity. More disturbing, this is a man who used to compete in a violent sport, has convictions for domestic abuse against former partners and has had his three children removed from him by the courts with an order that he is to have no contact with them (which is pretty rare and usually only where there is abuse or neglect). He is absolutely not safe around women on any level yet now expects to share spaces with them and has said on social media that he wants to kill JK Rowling and shit on her grave. There is nothing in the self-ID proposals that would protect women from someone like this.

YANBU I wish they'd at least say a trans woman

@Lookingoutside

DeepaBeesKit

‘Yanbu. It really fucks statistics too if these crimes get recorded as committed by women.’

The incel movement will soon point to said statistics and claim that women are raping men.

What then?

Given that women are being raped and murdered by police and that reporting of rape is at a low, conviction rates are laughable - you would think that these criminals must think they are in heaven now they can identify as women, get treated like special cases and then get access to more vulnerable women who can't say anything!

Oh and once they are out of prisons they can have free access to women and childrens spaces again! It's a fucking free for all!

If women don't like it we can get our thinking corrected by the local constabulary! Or we can have our work cancelled. Or we can have rape and death threats. (Or all three!)

@Lookingoutside

DeepaBeesKit

‘Yanbu. It really fucks statistics too if these crimes get recorded as committed by women.’

The incel movement will soon point to said statistics and claim that women are raping men.

What then?

Oops sorry meant to quote you in this post not the last one - Yes exactly - obscure the details, say that women are rapists - lie about statistics.

How can anyone in their right mind think this is ok?

This makes me so fucking angry.

What happens if they are changing their names - does it affect DBS checks? How can you keep track of offenders if you can't name them... or name what biological sex they are?

There is a special department at the DBS which handles "sensitive applications". The person concerned would be expected to complete a form with ALL their previous identities. This is what happens with all DBS checks anyway, you'd be expected to put your current name and previous names you had been known by.

But the "sensitive" route means that although the DBS will run the checks on all names/identities, these will not show on the certificate or be disclosed to the employer. So if you have Claire White applying for a position which requires a DBS, and Claire was previously Clive, then criminal records for Clive White will be checked but only the Claire name will appear on the certificate.

If that makes sense.

It's insane, very sadly I think there will be have to be a few very high profile crimes and cases before the law makers feel any pressure to remove self-ID for safe spaces.

Can women sue a prison for example if they get raped by their trans cell mate?

@RoseSays

It's insane, very sadly I think there will be have to be a few very high profile crimes and cases before the law makers feel any pressure to remove self-ID for safe spaces.

Can women sue a prison for example if they get raped by their trans cell mate?

At the recent court case, this was in effect what the judge said to the woman who had brought the case.

In essence he said: it is not necessarily desireable or right but the MoJ cannot actually be stopped from doing it on grounds of it being illegal. It would require a woman who has actually been harmed to bring a case, with evidence. As usual until a woman has been harmed and can prove it to the nth degree, there is no hope of anyone giving a damn.

And since we know the rape prosecution rate, good luck with that.

Doesn’t the Geneva Convention say that men and women should be kept separate when imprisoned? Has the Geneva Convention been updated to now allow men who say they’re women to be imprisoned with women?

(I know the Geneva Convention isn’t applicable in the U.K. in peacetime but just wondering)

@RoseSays

It's insane, very sadly I think there will be have to be a few very high profile crimes and cases before the law makers feel any pressure to remove self-ID for safe spaces.

Can women sue a prison for example if they get raped by their trans cell mate?

Yes, sadly I think it will take one or more women in prison being killed for there to be any meaningful change. So far, policy makers across the world seem cool with the following:

• Homeless women being raped in a shelter (Canada)
• Competitive male swimmer claiming female identity and trouncing women’s record by 40 seconds (US)
• Middle aged male claiming female identity and competing at the Olympics in weight lifting (NZ)
• Women in prison being raped/assaulted by a man who also flashed his penis at them (UK)
• Multiple court convictions in past few years worldwide of males IDing as female committing rape, sexual assault, bestiality, indecent exposure, possessing child abuse images, showing that claiming a female identity in no way affects a male pattern of offending (hardly any women are convicted of these offences and when they are, the circumstances are v different, eg they tend to be female teacher and male school pupil or abuse with a male partner who was dominant. Still reprehensible but very different factual pattern).

YANBU.

These are #NotOurCrimes

Glad to see how many women are becoming aware of this issue.

Can women sue a prison for example if they get raped by their trans cell mate?

How many women who’ve been in prison are going to be able to afford to sue anyone?

@ParsleySageRosemary

Can women sue a prison for example if they get raped by their trans cell mate?

How many women who’ve been in prison are going to be able to afford to sue anyone?

Well if it's a crime, the CPS will do it...no need for a private prosecution.

But be prepared to have to refer to the attacker as "she", or be deemed a hateful bigot and reduce your chances of a conviction even further.

Clearly, for those of us living in reality, but you aren't supposed to say it or you're a bigot, transphobe, etc etc and risk abuse.

How many men with convictions of sexual assault are being held in womens prisons across the UK? We need to know - I read something about figures being obscured.

4w.pub/male-serial-killer-housed-at-washington-womens-prison/

In America this is happening and it is the stuff of nightmares:

"Perry referred to his "male" and "female" identities in separate contexts, accusing his "male" side of having committed the crimes while his "female" identity was innocent of them."

This is a serial killer of prostitutes being held in a female prison.

Also now this: (someone posted the link earlier.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/03d57d22-6b4c-11ec-bb37-1b2eed73c283?shareToken=085064280774f9c874642abd0845af4f