To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

EarlyModernEnglish

Some posters feel that topics like this should only be discussed in the naughty corner board that is Feminism - sex and gender.

It irritates some posters to see the majority of women outside of that board also agree that women need their own single sex spaces.

@Helleofabore
Thank you for explaining! I was genuinely baffled but not understand the sort of poster I was quoting. Isn’t it odd that posters like that don’t explain why they feel that way, and just leave us scratching our heads?!

*but now understand

Yanbu

EarlyModernEnglish

I hear you Early. It is like some posters really want to control what conversations are being had where. I can’t talk for slash, but it is the pattern regularly seen when women’s words to describe themselves, female single sex spaces, female sports and also women objecting to being portrayed as caricatures by males for popular entertainment.

Almost like women talking amongst themselves on a parenting forum is an issue.

@Helleofabore

EarlyModernEnglish

Some posters feel that topics like this should only be discussed in the naughty corner board that is Feminism - sex and gender.

It irritates some posters to see the majority of women outside of that board also agree that women need their own single sex spaces.

I don’t think that’s the whole picture, either, though, @Helleofabore — it’s Mn policy to corral all posts on what is one of the major forces eroding women’s hard won rights and protections today into a subsection of the board.

And in fairness, for many people, it’s the equivalent of showing upon a female-do instead forum and saying ‘Domestic violence is bad, isn’t it?’

Plus there’s also been a spate of apparently disingenuous posters raising it in order to get responses which are then taken to Twitter as evidence of ‘transphobia’.

Well I think this is a situation that women are seeing in newspapers and must want to talk about as evidenced by the responses to this thread. Furthermore many of us want to know how to take action because it can't be allowed to go on. This thread belongs here - and if we aren't allowed to talk about it here, in AIBU, then it's more evidence of women not being allowed to discuss matters that involve them, which would be outrageous.

The Twitterati need to get their act together and condemn male sexual predators being put in womens prisons where they pose an actual real threat to women rather than crying about imaginary words.

In The Times' link posted above, there's a line that really shows how women are being treated far worse than men.

On Christmas Eve, Scotland’s prison population stood at 7,435, with only 259 listed as women. A total of 15 prisoners were trans, 12 of them trans women and three trans men. It is understood that all are currently held in female units as previous experience of trans men in the male estate had caused tensions.

"Previous experience of trans men in the make estate had caused tensions." 😡 Why is that different to trans women in the female estate?

I think that these cases should be reported using the term woman and she as well as an accompanying picture. That way people can make up their own minds.

There was the case with the Alsatian dog that was all over Twitter last week.

Nathlash

This is true too. Not you Wanda! But yes, some posters have started threads for screenshots.

I can just picture my colleagues who have had very little exposure to this debate but who have had to participate in d&i training watching this unfold.
I imagine the first reaction is : not all are like that. Then heel digging - even more pronouns everywhere to show they are the true allies (or should I say good disciples? )

Fun times ahead.

@Helleofabore

Nathlash

This is true too. Not you Wanda! But yes, some posters have started threads for screenshots.

They can share all the screenshots they like around their Twitter echo chamber. They had already made their minds up anyway and the lurkers get to see how reasonable everyone here is.

YANBU

YANBU and are being completely reasonable. Men are male, however they chose to identify.

I'm not kind and I think the elf bloke should also have been done for contempt of court

I agree.

@Helleofabore

Nathlash

This is true too. Not you Wanda! But yes, some posters have started threads for screenshots.

I know you didn't mean me :)

I thought that first comment was odd and a bit snide too but then decided to ignore it. It's censorship in itself.

I posted because I am horrified by what I'm seeing in the news and I want to know if other women see this too.

This IS my reality, in 2022, I am asking a group of women if they think that men who are sexual predators can say they feel like they are women and these men can then be recorded as "women" and put in the same prison cells as actual women.
And that there is already evidence to show that men who do this have assaulted women. These mens crimes will also then be recorded as womens crimes.

This seems to be the norm now. It's normal enough for our mainstream newspapers and media outlets to report it as such. This suggests it's normal for this to happen and everyone is ok with it. Otherwise why is this prison and police policy? Why is it media policy to report it as such? Because obviously most people must be ok with it.

So am I being unreasonable to think that this is wrong? And am I being unreasonable to want to know what the fuck is going on or if I am the only one seeing this? So yes it's absolutely an AIBU. This is exactly where this thread belongs.

Also...

It's weird how men on Twitter like to monitor things that women say on Mumsnet.

Or maybe it's to be expected.

YANBU. #notourcrimes

They should do (as some reports do) include an '...formerly known as....', certainly in cases where the person has committed crimes under a former name.

This could not legally be used only against trans people by the courts. It would have to be applied to all defendants.

It would be easy to see cases where the case is unrelated to a name change, but they're still caught up in such rules, such as

• a woman who has changed her name in a bid to evade an abusive ex who has been trying to find her, and is endangered by it
• a married woman being referred to by her maiden name, even though no one has known her by that for 30 years
• a trans person who is being tried for something totally unrelated to their trans status (false accounting, or possession with intent to supply, for instance) and is then outed to all and sundry for no good reason

And probably lots of other scenarios I can't think of at 1.45am.

The law of unintended consequences always applies.

The loud male Twitter group read our honest reflections and say mumsnetters are witchy dinosaur nuns (or whatever they pick to be offensive). They fear facing the truth and continually play the victim.

@Enough4me

The loud male Twitter group read our honest reflections and say mumsnetters are witchy dinosaur nuns (or whatever they pick to be offensive). They fear facing the truth and continually play the victim.

They hate women and hate them talking. Which is another reason for women to have safe spaces.

The mat ignorant are the women who defend this misogyny. Do they not see what they sleep walking into. How can any woman defend this? Would really like to hear a coherent argument for a women as to why she is happy to have her safety trampled on. It’s like a kamikaze mentality.

@WandaWomblesaurus73

Many of the women in prisons are victims of domestic abuse. As a survivor of both rape and domestic abuse myself - I would be horrified if I had to then share a cell with a man and call him a woman.

Horrified.

Yup

[quote BrightYellowDaffodil]should warrant more jail time too IMO

You mean the sort of jail time where they’ll claim to be a woman for an easier life/better access to victims, then revert back to their actual sex when they get out?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/03d57d22-6b4c-11ec-bb37-1b2eed73c283?shareToken=b5d40b683a6857af319ab4e2d2968b8e[/quote]
Not quite the same but this happened when I was in a psych hospital. We had a bio male who identified as a woman on the women's wing (i.e where our bedrooms/shower rooms were - rest of ward was mixed) - however, when discharged he identified as a man again.

And most women in a psych hospital are victims of trauma - a lot of which is sexual or domestic violence.