Please don’t move near us!

[Logabog432]

So my husband has a couple he is friends with. We’ve known them for a long time and he is good friends with the husband. The wife and I actively dislike each other and have for a number of years, it’s very complicated on both ends and we’ve both been rather unpleasant to each other, with her being particularly nasty when I had a miscarriage recently. (My husband told her husband years ago that I had an abortion when we were both at university and he told her. She had the audacity to suggest it was “karma”!!!!!!)

She’s also one of those “perfect” mums who has a family Instagram account, doesn’t work and is absolutely gorgeous but is very Judit if parents don’t do things the same way as her. She just generally makes me feel quite shitty and inadequate.

My husband and I live in a small village where we are very active in the community and it is a “everyone knows everyone” kind of place where you are always bumping into people you know at the pub, doctors, post office etc. We’ve lived here for 9 years and have a really lovely life, I’ve got a group of mum friends I meet regularly at the cafe close to us, go to baby group…

This couple I detest are literally moving two doors down. I am livid. I know they can move where they like so it’s unreasonable, but I feel like they are invading my community that I live being part of. Why would you want to live so close to someone you really don’t like? I can’t bear the thought of regularly seeing someone that makes me feel so shit, let alone them become part of my mum group (I’m on may leave and she’s about to have another baby) It’s like they are invading my safe space.

To be honest I know I’m being a bit unreasonable but I needed to vent

@PegasusReturns

I’ve been in this situation as one of the friends. A woman (let’s call her Amy) who had unbeknown to us at the time, treated a dear friend (lets call her Beth) appallingly came into our circle and over time made a very concerted effort to oust Beth. Of course we couldn’t see it at the time but looking back it was very clearly intentionally.

We lived in an expat community and had very interwoven lives, so all spent a lot of time together. Beth had once alluded to not getting on well with Amy but always seemed to be reasonable/pleasant enough in her in company although it was clear they weren’t friends.

I ended up becoming quite friendly with Amy to extent we’d do things alone (mat leave, similar aged babies) and I had no idea how unhappy Beth was until Amy did something awful and the situation really blew up.

By this point Beth was on verge of a breakdown and when the history came spilling out I was both mortified and devastated that I’d welcomed Amy with open arms. Beth felt she couldn’t tell any of us as she wanted to “go high”. It damaged a number of relationships irreparably and well over a decade later continues to cause pain.

So my advice is different: You’ve got a lovely group of friends, be honest with them. You’re not asking them to ostracise her, but you are asking them to understand how miserable she made you.

This was what I was thinking too.

Not bitching about her before she arrives, but more just letting them know that you aren't good friends. Because if someone arrived who clearly knew someone from a long time ago, then it might be reasonable to assume that they knew things-like you going through PND.
So it could slip out in conversation because they assume she knows anyway.

Keep it simple, not giving actual full details (if nothing else this gives her the opportunity to fling it back round on you). Simple factual:
"Unfortunately we've never really got on, but when I had my miscarriage she was quite hurtful. I really don't want her to know I have had PND, so I'm just asking you not to mention it in front of her."
Then change the subject.

I would be really upset too in your position although, as you say, there is nothing you can do about it.

Your comment that “we’ve both been rather unpleasant to each other” stood out to me. Exactly how unpleasant have you been to her? Her comments were absolutely inexcusable, but I wonder if she saw it as a proportional reaction to a something you have done that she perceived to be inexcusable? If that is the case my fear would be that this will escalate into awful, hurtful behaviour on both sides. Ask yourself honestly, if something terrible was to happen to her now, would you be tempted to throw her words about karma back at her? And what would be her reaction to learning of your PND if you did that? We all have the capacity to become monsters.

I’m not exactly sure what point I’m trying to make, except to say that it sounds like she may well feel as persecuted by you as you are with her. Resist the temptation to prolong or escalate matters.

Rise above it allOP if she tries to talk you down when they move to your village. Smile and nod, and if friends there pass on her bitchiness, just be very sympathetic about her “burden” - you don’t have to say what that is, just let others infer that she has some underlying problem of which you are tolerant.

Above all, rise above it. Let he bitchiness just bounce off you, and keep on being involved and active in your life in the community.

Anyone who can say that a miscarriage is “karma” for an earlier termination is not worth your headspace or emotional energy.

it’s very complicated on both ends and we’ve both been rather unpleasant to each other

this kind of says it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Quite obviously the comment about karma is horrible. But OP states she has been unpleasant too - it's not all one way.

Why are you letting her ‘make you feel bad’ about working?

No one can ‘make’ you feel anything that you aren’t already feeling.

If you are happy with your life as it is, why would anything she say have such a huge impact? It’s just her opinion and not applicable to you if you are happy with your set up. Just water off a ducks back.

It sounds like she’s found weakness and is exploiting it. Don’t let her!

Criticism of us usually hurts the most when there’s a grain of truth in it, unacknowledged. Which may have been what your husband was getting at.

My advice would be to work your own inner self-worth and self-esteem. When you are secure about yourself and situation then judgyness from others doesn’t stick.

That doesn’t mean you even need to change anything about your setup at all if it’s working well for you, but is more about recognising and accepting that ‘yes these are the choices I have made, I am happy with how they are working for me and my family’. Rinse and repeat.

@Logabog432

To be honest the main thing I’m worried about is:

Im going back to work soon after maternity leave. She is about to have a baby and doesn’t work anyway, I really feel worried she is going to take over/infiltrate the one thing I hold dear which is my private friendship group of mums. I’m quite a private person but they know about how I’ve been going through bad PND and I really don’t want that to get back to her.

Sit tight. They may be temporarily impressed by her but it won't last. She'll be low key judgy with them too and it will escalate. People in small villages don't tolerate twats like her. Oh and her comment re your miscarriage was disgusting. Maintain a reasonable moral high ground, but I wouldn't be averse to filling people in on her character if they mention doubts about her...

I agree with @Inabitoftime - it's ok to state, kindly, that you've found her rude and cruel and find her hard to spend time with but your DH is close to her husband. Then they will be pre warned and won't believe every bit of nonsense she comes out with.

I sympathise and would hate it but think you’re worrying unnecessarily. If her kid isn’t even born she will meet different mum friends through her child - yours is a few years older so different group.

Your DH should have kept your medical information private. You need to speak to him and request he doesn't discuss you, your medical information, your physical or mental health with this friend as his wife will then use it against you.

What did he say about the absolute nasty comment implying that you deserved to miscarry for having an abortion previously?

I'd tell your closest friends of your problem that DH's friend is moving in, she's implied the above, and how miserable you are about this. They should be supporting you.

Also - firm boundaries now with DH. eg no double dates, you will not be introducing her to your friends nor taking her anywhere and please don't suggest it.

She isn't welcome in your home, the men socialise alone etc.

As for your DH suggesting you are jealous of her. How your vagina didn't just shrivel shut is beyond me.

I wonder if she's actually envious of you. See's your life, home, village environment and Wants it for herself. Why else would she literally move 2 doors from you? Remember the grass isn't always greener and she's going to have to establish herself within the community. Try and be the bigger person and be civil and courteous but nothing more.
You may not have any control over her actions but you have control over how you behave.
Your husband really needs to understand your feelings even if he is good friends with her husband. Remember you come first.
It is really awful what she said and that alone is enough reason to distance yourself.

That's shit OP. I would not like it either. Carry on living your life as if they are not there. Your DH needs to be more supportive of you though. It is unacceptable to respond to to your concerns by accusing you of jealousy; he is shutting you down and name calling. Not good qualities in a life partner. I suspect if he had your back a bit more when he is with the couple or his friend, it would shut the whole issue down. He must not entertain any 'complaints' about you and he must never do anything like apologise for you, that would be truly shitty.

Where they live is none of your business.

If you had longer experience of small close communities, you'd know very well that among them there are always some people who don't get on/have very different views./serious fall outs. If they have any sense at all, they learn to be discreet, keep their gob shut, not gossip, badmouth nobody.

If you have any sense you'll let you community find out about the new arrivals all by themselves. If the new arrivals undermine and badmouth you, they will be the ones who find themselves judged, cold-shouldered, etc.

I’m confused as to why you still spend time with her if you both actively dislike each other so much? If I was in that kind of situation with one of dh friends partners I would not be doing couple things together, he could see his friend as much as he wanted but I’d not be getting involved at all.

Has it been petty over the years? Have you given as bad as you’ve got up until the karma comment? Is your dh sick of hearing it?

I don’t blame you! Why on earth are they copying you and moving to the exact same area? Bizarre. I’d be upset too if the relationship with her is as bad as you say.

Yanbu. The men sound very gossipy the way they are sharing your private medical business and then gossiping back nasty comments about it to you. It sounds like they are going to have to learn to stop blabbing

I can’t comprehend how you found out she said this. Presumably she said it to her DH who told your DH whol told you? Who thought it was acceptable to pass it on, both her husband and yours. My own dh would go ape shit. After all the child loss was his too.
Even if it was a mutual friend why didn’t they shut the bitch down and cut her out of their life.

Anyway I do not think yabu. I was in a similar situation with an ex and his new squeeze a number of years ago. The invasion of space was awful it was like they were destroying the life I had built.

You’ve got a lovely group of friends, be honest with them. You’re not asking them to ostracise her, but you are asking them to understand how miserable she made you

I agree with @PegasusReturns, I would mention it to close friends. Not in a nasty way and not criticising her as a person but just mentioning how uncomfortable you are about her moving so close and why you find her difficult, but in a brief factual way. Beyond that you’re going to have to decide on a diplomatic strategy for dealing with her and you may well find she’s nervous about it too.

You say you have both been unpleasant to each other - what has been your contribution @Logabog432? Someone else can’t ‘make’ you feel bad about yourself, if she had that power she’d be able to produce the same reaction in everyone so perhaps part of your strategy for dealing with her is adjusting your views of yourself and looking at her in a more balanced way. Her behaviour around you isn’t nice but it doesn’t define the whole of her (and the same is true for you). Perhaps you’ve got too ensconced in your hatred and need to view her in a more balanced way? I’m not saying that because you need to please your DH or be a doormat, but for your own sanity. If you want others to change their behaviour first change your own.

@lobsteroll is spot on with this:

I would definitely go high if she goes low. Definitely don't slag her off to your friends or say why you don't like her. That way if she starts getting nasty and talking about you, they will see right through her for who she is and they will make their own minds up about her.

I also find it utterly bizarre that she's moving right next door to you if she regards you with contempt. It suggests that she has very strange motives indeed. I also find it quite shocking that your DH has this perspective on her, knowing what she's said about your miscarriage.

If she's as nasty as you say she is your friends will discover this on your own. Pre-warning them or trying to influence them in any way is highly likely to backfire on you. Maintain the high moral ground. She'll out herself in no time.

@LessTime

Did she make the ‘karma’ comment to you or did someone tell you she said it? If it’s the later then it’s an unkind and shit stiring thing to do.

This. Whoever told you this is as bad as she is.

He told the husband ages ago as they are old friends and then obviously it got back to her through the husband. I wasn’t that happy but to be fair I tell my friends things in confidence and wouldn’t begrudge them telling their OH (as long as that person was trustworthy!) but thought it was very shitty of her and a real “low blow” as it were
It's not just the initial info that was shared though, it's that the men have gossiped back the horrible comment she said to you.

I’ll admit I’ve called her shallow before when she was slagging off mums who work and we really took a disliking to each other when I called her out for bitching about another friend of ours. I’m not proud but I did point out that she was the newest to the group and she shouldn’t be mouthing off opinions about people that knew her husband longer than she did. That was the worst thing I’ve said.

Up until now it’s been petty and as far as I’m concerned she crossed the line with the karma comment.

Ive basically been taking the “out of sight out of mind approach” until now and have never spoken to my mum friends about it

The karma comment was made directly to the Op @Everydaydayisaschoolday

she literally said “I’d be worrying it was karma from having an abortion”

Ok well in terms of how you've explained it here, that's a bit different to

“I think you’re coping really well after the miscarriage, if it were me I’d be driving myself mad thinking it was karma etc etc”

You obviously hate each other and are as judgy as fuck about each other's choices.

The only difference is she doesn't hate you enough to care about moving so close, so unfortunately I think you're going to have to come to terms with it.

You are giving her way more power and influence over your life than she deserves. If she’s as openly as obnoxious as you say then you won’t need to say or do anything - it’ll be apparent to everyone!

Don’t let her poor behaviour be a driver yours.

'This won’t be popular but I hope you have a plan because if you don’t she is going to be the one meeting your mum friends in that cafe weekly.'

I'd agree that you should be suspicious of her. I see lots of posts about being dignified etc but sod that. The sort of sociopath that will tell you a miscarriage is karma to your face will not hesitate to tell people in the village about the termination. I'd lay the groundwork by mentioning to your friends how awful she is. I've been burned in the past taking the high ground with this sort of person.