Having a baby your husband doesn't won't

[PullItUp]

Has anyone been through this?

Pregnant with a baby that wasn't planned that your husband doesn't want but you do? What do you do?

I don't want to get too much into a more abstract debate as IDK if that helps the OP.

I have to say though, you don't seem sympathetic to the men in these hypothetical scenarios, only the women. I find that very disturbing.

I find that you have sympathy for men who want to make women have abortions they don't want, very disturbing.

Of course it is OPs decision, but aside from whether she wants the child enough to potentially be a single parent, she should also consider the impact that having a father who actively does not want you could have on the child. I was the child in that situation and it was damaging, to an extent I've only fully realised as an adult. I think there's a tendency to forget in some situations I read about here that there's a whole other human involved in these dilemmas, who has no say at all but whose entire life will be shaped by their parent's decisions and actions.

@ImInStealthMode Would you rather you'd never been born? I like to think you've got some pleasure from life at times.

If someone has one parent that loves them that's not so bad. So sorry you had that experience with your dad/parents. I like to think most men aren't so nasty that they would be cruel or ignore a child to their face once they're born.

Even if they split with their partner or whatever. It's better they don't stick around than be abusive/neglectful.

@me4real

I don't want to get too much into a more abstract debate as IDK if that helps the OP.

I have to say though, you don't seem sympathetic to the men in these hypothetical scenarios, only the women. I find that very disturbing.

I find that you have sympathy for men who want to make women have abortions they don't want, very disturbing.

Of course it is OPs decision, but aside from whether she wants the child enough to potentially be a single parent, she should also consider the impact that having a father who actively does not want you could have on the child. I was the child in that situation and it was damaging, to an extent I've only fully realised as an adult. I think there's a tendency to forget in some situations I read about here that there's a whole other human involved in these dilemmas, who has no say at all but whose entire life will be shaped by their parent's decisions and actions.

@ImInStealthMode Would you rather you'd never been born? I like to think you've got some pleasure from life at times.

If someone has one parent that loves them that's not so bad. So sorry you had that experience with your dad/parents. I like to think most men aren't so nasty that they would be cruel or ignore a child to their face once they're born.

Even if they split with their partner or whatever. It's better they don't stick around than be abusive/neglectful.

@me4real

Sorry, would you mind quoting where I said that I sympathise with men who want to force their partners to have abortions? I'm a little confused by your comment.

In actual fact, I sympathise with men who have absolutely zero say in whether or not they have a child, and I'm allowed to sympathise with them. We don't have to hate men to be right in this situation.

I find that you have sympathy for men who want to make women have abortions they don't want, very disturbing.

Well said! I can't tell if the poster is being disingenuous or just 'what about the menz' but I agree not fair on OP to keep derailing so I'm going to leave it there too.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I find that you have sympathy for men who want to make women have abortions they don't want, very disturbing.

Well said! I can't tell if the poster is being disingenuous or just 'what about the menz' but I agree not fair on OP to keep derailing so I'm going to leave it there too.

Her comment wasn't well said though, she simply agreed with you, and you're happy about that what she said was completely false, as I never once said that men can "force" women to have abortions. I said the opposite 🙄

It's ok to be on both sides. I empathise with both genders in these scenarios, nothing wrong with that.

I can't help noticing that nobody has argued with anyone who has claimed that it's ok for a woman to demand a man has a vasectomy, but not that a woman should have an abortion. It feels as though "your body, your choice" only applies to women, because men don't matter. Therefore proving my point even more.

I can't help noticing that nobody has argued with anyone who has claimed that it's ok for a woman to demand a man has a vasectomy, but not that a woman should have an abortion. It feels as though "your body, your choice" only applies to women, because men don't matter. Therefore proving my point even more.

Eh? I don't think it's ok for a woman to demand a man has a vasectomy. Demanding a man has a vasectomy is wrong.

I absolutely ALWAYS think it should be 'your body, your choice' for both men and women. HTH.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I can't help noticing that nobody has argued with anyone who has claimed that it's ok for a woman to demand a man has a vasectomy, but not that a woman should have an abortion. It feels as though "your body, your choice" only applies to women, because men don't matter. Therefore proving my point even more.

Eh? I don't think it's ok for a woman to demand a man has a vasectomy. Demanding a man has a vasectomy is wrong.

I absolutely ALWAYS think it should be 'your body, your choice' for both men and women. HTH.

Many people on this thread have said that the OPS DP should have got an abortion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you called them out on it? You only called me out because you thought I was saying that it's OK for men to demand woman have abortions, which I wasn't.

*women

*should have got a vasectomy

Apologies!

@ThymeTravel
I've gone back and yes, I apologise. You did indeed clarify several times that you believe that there are situations where a woman should undergo a forced abortion.

Again, my apologies. That is indeed your clearly stated view.

@ThymeTravel

You only called me out because you thought I was saying that it's OK for men to demand woman have abortions, which I wasn't.

You're rewriting history now. As a reminder...

Someone asked you:

Give me one single fact that would remove the right to make the decision from the woman.

And you answered in response, specifically, word for word:

One single fact (not relates to this thread) would be if the woman lied about being on contraception.

So you stated clearly that you think that if a woman lied about being on contraception, that would "remove the right to make the decision from the woman."

You later tried to backtrack but your words are there in black and white so I've no idea why you're claiming otherwise, it's all very odd!

[quote IncompleteSenten]@ThymeTravel
I've gone back and yes, I apologise. You did indeed clarify several times that you believe that there are situations where a woman should undergo a forced abortion.

Again, my apologies. That is indeed your clearly stated view.[/quote]
No, I didn't state that any women should undergo a forced abortion. I have no idea where you're getting that from, I'm afraid.

I simply stated that a man's view should matter, and therefore should be considered.

People then decided that I was saying that women should be forced to have abortions when the man doesn't want the child - a stance I have never once taken. Simply a strawman argument from PP.

@ThymeTravel Saying if a man didn't want any more children then he should have had a vasectomy is common sense. It's not a 'demand'.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@ThymeTravel

You only called me out because you thought I was saying that it's OK for men to demand woman have abortions, which I wasn't.

You're rewriting history now. As a reminder...

Someone asked you:

Give me one single fact that would remove the right to make the decision from the woman.

And you answered in response, specifically, word for word:

One single fact (not relates to this thread) would be if the woman lied about being on contraception.

So you stated clearly that you think that if a woman lied about being on contraception, that would "remove the right to make the decision from the woman."

You later tried to backtrack but your words are there in black and white so I've no idea why you're claiming otherwise, it's all very odd![/quote]
Fair enough, my apologies. I'm not back tracking though, I just wasn't clear at all and I apologise for that.

The right should never be "removed" from the woman. But morally, if a woman lies and tricks a man in such a manner, she should DEFINITELY consider the feelings and needs of the man before her own.

I asked you
"Give me one single fact that would remove the right to make the decision from the woman."

And you replied
"One single fact (not relates to this thread) would be if the woman lied about being on contraception"

You said that one situation that in your view would remove from a woman the right to decide to continue a pregnancy would be if she lied about being on contraception.

Those were your words. So you clearly do think that there are situations where a woman should have a forced abortion. Otherwise why did you say that?

When someone else asked you if you actually meant your reply, you said "So it's OK to remove the rights from the man, but not the woman? You can't have it both ways. It's about equally."

Yet again confirming that yes, you believe there should be situations where a woman has a forced abortion.

Then you compared it to rape "If a man lies about wearing a condom it's considered rape in some places. Yet, if a woman lies about contraception and falls pregnant the man has no rights.

How is that fair? I find your views highly disturbing, as you're implying that men have no rights in these scenarios. It's disgusting"

Saying that it is morally wrong that a man has no right to force an abortion. Clearly, again, this is confirming you think he should have that right

Next it was"

"Morally? Equal say in the matter, and the woman should respect that.

Again. Equal say. How does that work when it is something there can be no compromise on? What form would his 'equal say' take?

Then your hypothetical poking holes in the condom argument

"She gets pregnant. The man doesn't want it but she does.

Are you saying that the woman ultimately gets to decide to bring his child into the world against his will after what she done"

Yet again sounds exactly like you think she should be forced to have an abortion.

"But, in some circumstances it isn't ok to force a man to become a father against his will"

Hello again. Isn't ok to force a man to become a father against his will = woman should be forced to abort

Look. If you're holding these views at least have the balls to own them.

@ThymeTravel

Question - why is it OK to say a man should have a vasectomy, but not that a woman should have an abortion?

Their body their choice, but only when it comes to a woman?

Well it does work for both, if you dont want children and you are male have a vasectomy (or be very very careful with condoms etc), if you are a female who doesnt want to be pregnant have an abortion.

No one is forcing either to do something they dont want to - the man has autonomy over his own body and so does the woman

It's literally impossible for men and women to be completely equal in all things, especially when it comes to biology.

A man cannot have an equal say in regards to a pregnancy because his experience of that pregnancy is not equal to the woman's and never can be.

Just as a woman cannot have an equal say in regards to a vasectomy because her experience of it is never going to be equal to his.

You can't have equality where it's literally impossible for it to actually exist.

Pregnancy is up to the woman because physically she is the only one going through it.

Vasectomy is up to the man because physically he is the only one going through it.

The equality comes from having the option to do what you want with your own body. Just because those options are not exactly the same for men and women doesn't mean that is not equal.

Men have the option to prevent pregnancy, they can have a vasectomy.

Women have the option to proceed or abort a pregnancy.

Equal.

@IncompleteSenten

Look. If you're holding these views at least have the balls to own them.

I'll decide what my views are, thank you very much. Putting words into my mouth does not I'm saying what you're telling me I'm saying. It's It's very weak argument to decided off your own back what someone means, rather than actually listen to them.

Never once did I mention a forced abortion, as you'll see if you follow my responses.

😂😂😂😂😂

I quoted your responses. See the post directly above the one you're responding to.

Just give it up.
You were clear and you were consistent. These were all your words.

I wouldn't call just copying and pasting your own replies "putting words in your mouth"

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@ThymeTravel

You say 'morally?' so let's say for arguments sake you could literally make laws.

You would therefore make a law that reflected what you believed to be morally right - that Steve gets an equal say in whether or not Mary continues the pregnancy, because she lied about being on the pill?

Would you really make that the legal precedent? [/quote]
And how does equal say work? He says abort
She says keep. Now what? Court? A judge to pass an order to pin down Mary who's now 14 weeks gone and force an abortion?

Fair enough, my apologies. I'm not back tracking though, I just wasn't clear at all and I apologise for that.

Thanks.

The right should never be "removed" from the woman. But morally, if a woman lies and tricks a man in such a manner, she should DEFINITELY consider the feelings and needs of the man before her own

So close!

I give up, it's all there above so no point keeping on repeating your verbatim words to you and you then saying words have been put in your mouth. It's bizarre.

@me4real Yes (on the whole) my life has been fine, aside from 20+ years of wondering why I wasn't good enough but my half-sibling was, and all the damage that did to my relationships with Men as an adult.

But if I'd never been born I wouldn't have 'missed out', I'd just never have been, like every other unfertilised egg. Bit of a moot point.