Having a baby your husband doesn't won't

[PullItUp]

Has anyone been through this?

Pregnant with a baby that wasn't planned that your husband doesn't want but you do? What do you do?

It would be a divorce for me. Is DH happy to keep the baby or is he wanting you to have an abortion. That would be the deciding factor for me.

Many years ago my lovely friend had a surprise 3rd child . Her husband was not happy

Makes it sound like she, herself, had a child.

As for husbands being unhappy with pregnancies they 50% caused (and contraception can fail anytime), they can can less than thrilled, but if they pressure theur wives then abort; they are excuses for men, excuses for human beings

@youvegottenminuteslynn

But if you could make laws *@ThymeTravel* why wouldn't you make them align with what you genuinely believe to be morally right?

Or is it the case that you do in fact know it would be wrong to give men an equal say over a pregnancy being continued or not?

I don't understand your assertion it should be equal coupled with you saying you wouldn't make that the legal state of play.

Because it would be incredibly cruel and immoral to enforce that. Therefore, I wouldn't.

My point, is that a man should have equal say (between himself and his sexual partner) in the matter from a moral perspective, and his opinions and feelings should absolutely be considered by the woman, who would then make the final decision.

It can't just be "Do what's right for you, not him" regardless of the situation. You're implying that men don't matter, and that's so so wrong!

You have to consider both sides and how both feel. Men very much matter too in these situations, not just women.

@ThymeTravel

You've communicated your point of view poorly then, as that's not at all what you've suggested so far.

You literally said, in the poking holes in the condom example: "Are you saying that the woman ultimately gets to decide to bring his child into the world against his will after what she done?" as if it was a gotcha and you didn't think it was right to say she would ultimately get to decide that.

Now you're saying that you too would fundamentally agree that yes she absolutely would get to decide that...

Glad you agree after all!

[quote GalacticGoddess]@ThymeTravel 'Let's say that a man was trying to be safe and wore condoms. Behind the scenes his DP/DW is poking holes in the condoms.

She gets pregnant. The man doesn't want it but she does.

Are you saying that the woman ultimately gets to decide to bring his child into the world against his will after what she done?'

Yep, they get no say at all. Because they can walk away with no physical damage. Women cannot. Women either go through the damage (emotional and sometimes physical) of abortion or the damage and potential fatality of childbirth. Men get no say. Nor should they ever. The only final say they should get re a woman's pregnancy is having a vasectomy to ensure they don't have kids if they don't want them! [/quote]
No physical damage, yes. What about the emotional damage he'll have to suffer?

I think the opinion of "No say at all" is incredibly cruel and selfish.

@GalacticGoddess

Emotional pain can be much worse than physical.

I have to say though, you don't seem sympathetic to the men in these hypothetical scenarios, only the women. I find that very disturbing.

But he always said he absolutely categorically was done with children after that as he had 3 and didn't want anymore.

Then he should have had a vasectomy.

(With the caveat thry are not 100% foolproof and he's responsible for any baby conceived if it fails .... he could use condoms as well.of course, but these men are often not keen on condoms, their sensation and pleasure shouldn't be affected; their wife however can suffer through a termination if she falls pregnant).

@ThymeTravel

You're implying that men don't matter, and that's so so wrong! You have to consider both sides and how both feel.

Not sure how you can say this when I specifically said I would feel terrible for the guy in your hypothetical situation and my empathy would be with him...

That empathy just doesn't mean I think he gets the final say over a pregnancy. Which you now say you agree with!

I'm so sorry ur in this situation- I'd have it if it were me.
If he left me carrying his child he couldn't have loved me that much in the first place xx

Please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Our stances are not the same, at all.

I come very much from an equality perspective, whereas yours is all about the woman's perspective.

I also said multiple times that I believe men should have a say from a MORAL perspective, not a legal perspective as you can't force a woman to do something with her body that she wouldn't want.

Bottom line - the men in these situations matter as much as the women.

Obviously if he didn't want more children he should have had a vasectomy or worn a condom, but too late for that now so no point taking it into account.

Of course it is OPs decision, but aside from whether she wants the child enough to potentially be a single parent, she should also consider the impact that having a father who actively does not want you could have on the child. I was the child in that situation and it was damaging, to an extent I've only fully realised as an adult.

I think there's a tendency to forget in some situations I read about here that there's a whole other human involved in these dilemmas, who has no say at all but whose entire life will be shaped by their parent's decisions and actions.

@ThymeTravel

Please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Our stances are not the same, at all.

I come very much from an equality perspective, whereas yours is all about the woman's perspective.

I also said multiple times that I believe men should have a say from a MORAL perspective, not a legal perspective as you can't force a woman to do something with her body that she wouldn't want.

Bottom line - the men in these situations matter as much as the women.

Your stance is unclear as you say one thing is your moral position but that it's not something you'd want to happen in reality... meaning you know it's not a morally sound stance. Otherwise you'd be happy to see it in reality.

Agree to disagree I guess!

@ThymeTravel Of course it can be?
I only have so much sympathy really because too often women bear the brunt of child rearing after men have decided they don't want to stick around.

If OPs partner didn't want to have another baby he should have sorted his vasectomy out after child no3. Again, it's his business ...🤷🏽‍♀️

If you’re replying to me, I’m saying what I would do.
Thank you!!

@ThymeTravel .

No. A man has absolutely no right to decide whether a woman continues with a pregnancy or not.

You are skirting around the fact that if you give the father "a say" then you are surely saying that a woman should in certain circumstances be made to have an abortion against her will.

You aren't being very clear so I will ask you a very simple question.

Do you think that a woman should ever be taken to a clinic against her will and have an abortion performed on her without her consent if the father does not want the child.

A simple yes or no.

One word.

No dodging.

Yes.

No.

But he always said he absolutely categorically was done with children after that as he had 3 and didn't want anymore.

Then it would be unfair to expect him to stay with you or be involved with the child.

Yes he could have had a vasectomy but seeing as you were using contraception yourself then you made it seem you don’t want a baby yourself.

I know there are PPs who’ve said their partners came around to the idea but they are rare.

You need to be prepared that you will be bringing this child up alone if you go through with it - that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t keep the baby though if you really want it.

My point, is that a man should have equal say (between himself and his sexual partner) in the matter from a moral perspective, and his opinions and feelings should absolutely be considered by the woman, who would then make the final decision.

How is it an equal say if the woman makes the final decision.

I think I get what you are trying to say, that the woman should talk to the man, and come to a decision together. That does make sense, but overall fundamentally, a woman who is pregnant doesnt have to do that, and that is ok

[quote IncompleteSenten]@ThymeTravel .

No. A man has absolutely no right to decide whether a woman continues with a pregnancy or not.

You are skirting around the fact that if you give the father "a say" then you are surely saying that a woman should in certain circumstances be made to have an abortion against her will.

You aren't being very clear so I will ask you a very simple question.

Do you think that a woman should ever be taken to a clinic against her will and have an abortion performed on her without her consent if the father does not want the child.

A simple yes or no.

One word.

No dodging.

Yes.

No.[/quote]
Sorry, I think you need to follow the conversation a bit closer. This was all clarified.

@ThymeTravel

Please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Our stances are not the same, at all.

I come very much from an equality perspective, whereas yours is all about the woman's perspective.

I also said multiple times that I believe men should have a say from a MORAL perspective, not a legal perspective as you can't force a woman to do something with her body that she wouldn't want.

Bottom line - the men in these situations matter as much as the women.

@ThymeTravel People are being deliberately obtuse which sadly proves your point! Of course you can't 'legally' give men a say in what a woman does to her body. But it's not wrong to say that the baby's father's opinion should listened to.

In practical terms it's not just the matter of the father's opinion. It's the impact on the whole family. Including children who already exist. In terms of finances, juggling time and busyness.

In the end it IS up to the woman whether or not to keep the baby. But it's not a question of whether she 'wants' the baby. She has to accept the impact it will have on her whole life.

@TueWed

My point, is that a man should have equal say (between himself and his sexual partner) in the matter from a moral perspective, and his opinions and feelings should absolutely be considered by the woman, who would then make the final decision.

How is it an equal say if the woman makes the final decision.

I think I get what you are trying to say, that the woman should talk to the man, and come to a decision together. That does make sense, but overall fundamentally, a woman who is pregnant doesnt have to do that, and that is ok

You're right, she doesn't have to do it. But, in some circumstances it isn't ok to force a man to become a father against his will.

*'just' whether she wants the baby.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Exactly!! It's not a case of all or nothing e.g. the woman can do as she pleases with her body, therefore the mans feeling don't matter in the slightest. There has to be give or take, and the man has to be considered, as well as the rest of the family.

I had this. Our relationship was awful the entire pregnancy and although he loved her he resented everything in the beginning. We are still together, very much in love but for a long time I didn't think we would make it through x

Keep the baby. Your body your choice. If you don't you will probably break up anyway through the trauma of not going through with a wanted pregnancy Chances are he will love the baby when it comes It is always best to do what you feel is the right thing for you.

@HelenGraham2121

But he always said he absolutely categorically was done with children after that as he had 3 and didn't want anymore.

Then he should have had a vasectomy.

(With the caveat thry are not 100% foolproof and he's responsible for any baby conceived if it fails .... he could use condoms as well.of course, but these men are often not keen on condoms, their sensation and pleasure shouldn't be affected; their wife however can suffer through a termination if she falls pregnant).

Question - why is it OK to say a man should have a vasectomy, but not that a woman should have an abortion?

Their body their choice, but only when it comes to a woman?