To be upset with partner over no engagement?

[bluenewyear23]

My partner and I have discussed marriage a lot over the years as something we both want to do - even down to details about the ceremony size etc. We’ve been more ‘seriously’ talking about it for last year and a half and he wants to do it in his own way - but soon. This still hasn’t happened 1.5 years on and I’m quite upset about it.
I’m now 3 months pregnant and we’ve just had our second fight about it. First fight was not long after finding out I’m pregnant - he suddenly said he doesn’t really want to get married and it’s not important to him. He has said ‘he will if I insist’ but in his own time/when he feels ready.

Obviously I’m not sure if I want to marry someone who doesn’t actually want to marry me for the right reasons. We’ve now fallen out I assume - as he’s taken the joint car, disappeared and turned his phone off.

I can’t help but feel a bit strung along, the timing of telling me he doesn’t want to get married once I’ve already gotten pregnant seems odd since we’ve spoken so much before about it.

Am I being unreasonable being so upset? Should I just wait and see if he does at some point in the future? Am I expecting too much?

Since you’re the higher earner and weren’t planning to become a SAHM for very long the concern about protection of assets is not so important. You may even be better off from a financial perspective if you don’t get married. I very much agree with the advice to not give the baby his name. I would also be very cautious about the plan for him to take time off work and be a SAHP - if he is the full time carer and you split he has a much stronger claim to have the child with him the majority of the time and you paying him CM.

I think you need to decide just how important marriage is to you and whether you would actually be happy living with him without that. He’s clearly been stringing you along (not necessarily intentionally - he may have been stringing himself along too, not realising how deep his reluctance ran). If it’s a deal breaker, split up ASAP and don’t put his name on the birth certificate. If it’s not, make sure the financial side of things is locked up tightly.

And if, as I suspect, he often lets you do the leg work for things, start insisting he pulls his weight on the planning and monitoring side of looking after a child - researching what s/he needs, keeping track of what is required when, of what milestones should be hit and whether the baby is meeting them, vaccinations, nurseries, new clothes, networking with other parents so kids can play together and you can trade favours, taking time off when their sick, then, eventually school, clubs, homework, friends, etc. And if he doesn’t do that for joint assets (like the car and house, he needs to be taking on half of that too). Don’t be the main earner and do all the wife work and become the default parent if you stay with him.

@PersonaNonGarter

Get over yourself and insist.

Mind boggling advice.

So he’s doing the classic abusive man thing of starting to treat you like shit when you’re pregnant. He feels he can now do what he wants because you’re trapped and nobody else will want you. He’s trashed it all. Sadly you’re with a deceiver. What happens now is up to you. You can stand strong and go “nah mate. You’re done” and mean it or you can be me and end up trapped and subservient to his every whim and mood because you never stated your boundary and forced through the consequences. If you let him get away with this then you and your life are fucked. Sorry but it’s true. He already thinks he’s better than you and you’re not worth marrying. All of the strong happy women I know would have dumped at the phrase “want to do it my way”. A friend had this and said “fair enough. That doesn’t work for me though and I get to have a say in my own life” and packed her bags to fly back to her home country. He eventually followed her to the airport because he realised she was serious. He would never see her again if he’d let her get on that plane and she was prepared to draw a line and grieve and then move on. They are now married with a huge family. You get what you ask for in life. If he can’t give you what YOU need then draw a line. It’s up to you if you keep the baby. If I was above 30 then I would. If I was below 30 then I’d terminate without telling him and block him.

@Berthatydfil

I would think twice about him taking any shared maternity leave especially if it’s after yours. Could this set him up as a default carer/sahp ? Take your maternity leave, you may be able to extend it by adding on any carried forward annual leave, get childcare in place and make sure he’s paying half of that and all of the household bills. Don’t go part time or reduce your hours either.

Yes, this, absolutely. Do not share your mat leave.

Congratulations on your pregnancy. So much good advice here (and almost unanimous). This sounds very painful but it is better that you know all this now then after you have made further decisions that could be to your detriment. Plan on being a single mother and embrace that.

What aspect of marriage is the thing he can’t handle? Has he told you?

As, if it’s the wedding dress price or the cost of engagement rings, or the size of the event, all these things would be worth compromising on if it meant you get married, as that’s what you want and it gives you protection.

If all he wants is a small wedding with two witnesses then that could be arranged?

If it’s the intertwining of finances because he has more savings than you, or the lifelong commitment to the mother of his child that’s the problem then there isn’t much you can do to compromise and honestly I’m not sure if even want to marry him if those are the issues.

Sooo, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt - he’s a crazy mixed up kid. Right, now that’s done.

Focus on your pregnancy & prepare to enjoy being a mum.
As others have said, assume that you will likely be a single mum, certainly plan & organise as though you may be.

Start stashing all your spare cash now so that you can eek out your funds to extend your maternity leave for as long as possible. Cut out any discretionary spends right now & cross subsidising yer fella. You need to build up your cash reserves.

Check out your credit ratings & look at money sites like Martin Lewis to find out how to boost your credit score, just in case you need to resort to plastic to tide you over until you are back on full salary.

Find out if you can have a mortgage holiday during the tail end of your maternity leave.

Review what marriage means to you. Is it emotional security, financial stability, legal protection, commitment etc etc? Lay this out & work out what not marrying him can you achieve on your own. What is the very thing that marriage alone brings you. Be very very clear to yourself.

Is the relationship fundamentally worth not without having that very thing?

You are hurt & annoyed right now, but you have so much to look forward to, so you need a clear head & a strong heart to work out what is best for you & baby.

Get out of this situation now before the baby is born.
Give the baby your surname, keep your job even if you have to move heaven and earth and take out a loan to pay childcare.
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He has said ‘he will if I insist’ but in his own time/when he feels ready.

You insist, walk him to the local registry to put in paper ASAP and certainly before the child is born. You can organise the romantic wedding for another time.

See marriage as a contract that protects you and your child from him walking out with mutual assets. Now if this has shown you who he is… believe him, leave and do not complicate the situation further by staying, if he wants his single life now that he is going to be a dad… let him have it, it is much easier to raise your kid alone than raising them with a selfish man who only cares about himself.

If you are the higher earner and intend to keep on working- have a think about marriage anyway.

When you marry everything is 50:50, so if you earn more, bigger pensions, more savings etc, it is you that will have to share your assets with him.

If that is the case you may be financially better of not married anyway.

If you get the chance to talk together about it, it could be worth asking him to consider specifically what it is he’s rejecting - is it marriage itself, or the idea of having a wedding?

Having a (big) wedding isn’t the only way to get married, so if you can both compromise on a registry office with two witnesses and no reception would that work for you?

Also, marriage isn’t the only way to have a relationship and a family. Since two years ago it’s been possible to have a civil partnership as a heterosexual couple - that can be easier for marriage-refuseniks to stomach and it seems easier to do it without a ceremony while not upsetting the wider families.

Also, unmarried couples with children have been the fastest growing household type for a few years now so it’s not at all unusual. In Scandinavian countries marriage is becoming less and less common (though remember that the legal protections for those in cohabiting relationships vary between countries).

If you decide to stick together and stay unmarried, just make sure you get protections such as: if you own property make sure it’s joint tenancy (I’m not a lawyer so do check this yourself); make your wills so that you, your partner and your child are all protected; get yourselves named on any death in service benefits or other pension rights that you can.

If marriage is crucially important to you or if having a public wedding is your heart’s desire and it’s a dealbreaker then my comments above are not relevant for you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do and good luck with the baby!

Thanks again everyone, it's all good advice. I just need to decide if I can stay with him without ever having that security or if we break and I start over.

In terms of why he's against it - I don't know, it's switched a bit. It's definitely not the wedding itself, he knows I'd be happy at the registry office with two guests. First it was 'I do want to, but just in my own time', then it was ' I don't want all the when/where questions from friends and relatives' (?), then 'all the happiest couples I know aren't married'. Now it's that 'it's not important to him and he doesn't want to do it because im pressuring him'. I know all this points to him just not wanting to marry me specifically, as it's been over and year and a half of this conversation. I guess you just deny this when you're in the situation yourself :)

@PersonaNonGarter

Get over yourself and insist.

Yes, because being forced into a marriage you’ve already said you don’t want isn’t a recipe for disaster 🙄

Please do not give the baby his name.

If you are married it’s fine, but if not, you as the child’s mother should have that tie in your child’s name. Even if he/his family assume or kick up a stink, don’t allow it to happen.

My sister made this mistake and really regrets that her two DC do not have her last name, especially once the relationship broke down. If he does marry you later, it is fairly straightforward to change the child’s name, a friend did this.

Irrespective as to whether you want marriage and if 'agrees' to it after you have talked to him, this is a recipe for disaster and definitely not a healthy relationship for a marriage.
You are not on the same page and pressure to get married will never end well as there will be resentment on both sides: you wondering if he married you cos you talked him into it / he feeling pressured into it.
Marriage is a legal contract & shouldn't be what keeps you together.

If he does marry you it will be purely to keep the peace. If he wanted to marry you, he'd have asked you a long time ago, particularly as he knows how important it is to you.

Personally I would end the relationship.

Sorry but he’s got you pregnant and wants to keep one foot out the door. If you were the love of his life and he knew how important marriage was to you, there’s no way he’d keep you guessing and waiting like this, causing you a huge amount of stress and upset whilst pregnant. It doesn’t really matter what he wants, what matters is you deserve better than how he’s treated you.

He played you all along.

However you wanted a baby with time running out, you are pregnant so box ticked.

You are the higher earner, so marriage may not be in your best interests anyway, unless you were planning to give up your career.

If you want to play him back, print off a bunch of mortgage calculator info and right move info, maybe some "do I need to name the father on the birth certificate stuff". leave it in clear sight and bugger off for a week.

Honestly I'd take some time away and think abut why you want to marry this man.

All we need is “it’s just a piece of paper” to get the full set! Funny how they never regard their mortgage contract as just a piece of paper….

OP you’ve had great advice & you seem fully switched on about the pros and cons of your choices

OP, him marrying you because of "if you insist", is frankly no way to start married life.

With men like him it would be thrown in your face for ever more.

I understand that this is shocking but also combined with denial on your part.

As was said above, men who really want to be with a woman, simply don't confuse them and give them the run a round.

They make their intentions plain and they act.

He is hedging his bets.
He figures you are going nowhere now you are pregnant, so why shouldn't still have one eye on what is still available to him.

I absolutely understand what I have written is unpalatable, but it is the truth.

He's a dud.

You need to be completed focused on trying to figure out what you want from your future, because I am 100% sure it is not going to be the future you imagined with him.
He has changed his mind and is no longer sure about how he feels.
But he is too weak to admit it.

You are pregnant now and he has no intention of making this more complicated for HIM.

You need to focus on what is best for you.

Just YOU.

His just stringing. Men who wants to get married do it and as another pp said don’t be surprised if you split and then his engaged with another baby on the way within a year. My dp proposed within 6 months because he was sure, friends of his have waiting till a year and the slowest waiting untill his gf was pregnant but once she was pregnant he proposed at the first opportunity that didn’t look like an oh shit she’s pregnant best get married kinda situation.

You don’t have to leave him at all but you must always keep in mind the need to be prepared to go it alone. Do not give him any advantages at all. Will everything to Dc, higher wages and pensions all yours. Make him pay 50% child care and cover his fair share of all household bills don’t become his mum and easy life.

How can someone be ready to have a child with someone but not ready for marriage? Its ludicrous.

I wouldn’t consider having a child with a man who wouldn’t marry me so in your shoes I’d end the relationship and the pregnancy.

If you earn more than him, you own a house together, the baby was planned, he's been saying for several years that he's been happy to get married at some point in the future but has now gone back on that I'd assume that either:

He's seeing someone else, or planning to;
He's generally rethinking the relationship, possibly in light of the pregnancy, maybe he wasn't as keen/ready as you to have a child, was it you or him who was really the most keen to have a baby? Do you think he perhaps just went along with it because he didn't want to discuss it?
He's worried about work/his financial future/who will look after the baby in the short term until it's old enough to go to school, how much nursery will cost, had he considered all this;
Something else? Has his behaviour particularly changed recently? Before or after you got pregnant? Maybe his MH has been affected by the pandemic & he's worried about the future?

None of these are really good enough reasons for him to do or say what he has though. The fact is, you're pregnant, it was planned, you can't just put it back. Even if you decide to have an abortion, it's a traumatic medical procedure that you would have to go through because he CBA to get himself sorted. Alternatively he sorts himself out, or you separate.

Honestly I don't think I'd want to marry someone that treated me like this. It's deeply disrespectful, deceitful & I'd constantly be worrying when/if/how they're going to let me down again. You need to consider what you want to do, without his support or finances in the equation.

Do you want to be married to a man who takes your car and leaves you and turns his phone off, over a small spat?

I would look to getting my own transport, not pay for anything for him at all, not do anything for him. Seek legal advice regarding your house & look into if you could buy him out of his share.
Remain financially independent. Start putting some of your money away into a contingency fund.
Give baby your surname (it helps with travelling solo), but also why would you want to have a different name from your baby?

Don’t believe anything your P says, he’s a liar.

Also ensure you have a strong friends and family circle around you, be alert to his behaviour escalating. His behaviour is abusive. He could have left the car and gone off in a strop but he chose to trap you at home newly pregnant and upset and has turned his phone off. This behaviour doesn’t look good.

Why would you want to marry him at this point.

IME if a man wants to marry you he will. I had three engagement rings but only married the one who gave me the fourth as he actually wanted to marry me. The others didn't and just bought the ring to shut me up. I was young and stupid with them. Then I found a decent man.

Please decide if this man is going to be someone you can co-parent with as he isn't going to marry you. Sorry.