To be upset with partner over no engagement?

[bluenewyear23]

My partner and I have discussed marriage a lot over the years as something we both want to do - even down to details about the ceremony size etc. We’ve been more ‘seriously’ talking about it for last year and a half and he wants to do it in his own way - but soon. This still hasn’t happened 1.5 years on and I’m quite upset about it.
I’m now 3 months pregnant and we’ve just had our second fight about it. First fight was not long after finding out I’m pregnant - he suddenly said he doesn’t really want to get married and it’s not important to him. He has said ‘he will if I insist’ but in his own time/when he feels ready.

Obviously I’m not sure if I want to marry someone who doesn’t actually want to marry me for the right reasons. We’ve now fallen out I assume - as he’s taken the joint car, disappeared and turned his phone off.

I can’t help but feel a bit strung along, the timing of telling me he doesn’t want to get married once I’ve already gotten pregnant seems odd since we’ve spoken so much before about it.

Am I being unreasonable being so upset? Should I just wait and see if he does at some point in the future? Am I expecting too much?

QueenofDestruction Sat 01-Jan-22 15:52:33
TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain

He doesn't want to marry you. I've seen this happen lots of times: the man pisses about and strings the woman along with coy talk about proposals, then claims he's not ready. If you decide to leave him, prepare for him to get together with another woman very quickly and marry her. I don't know why they do that, but they do.

Because whatever excuses they give e.g.. I don't believe in marriage, we will do it on my time, when the baby is older etc,etc..Funda mentally it means I don't want to marry YOU, simply I don't love you enough to tie myself to you in that way. I know I told you in the past I said I wanted to get married, I was not lying but I just don't want to marry you. I want to keep my options open in case I meet someone I really care about, her I will marry

Yep! This happened to me. We talked about marriage for a couple of years. He always brought it up. He talked about where we would live, we would have 2 children, he named them, he spoke about the life we would have. It all sounded so wonderful. But he never proposed to me and then he left and popped up a year later married to someone else he'd apparently just met. They ended up living the life he'd spoke about with me. For whatever reason he didn't want to live that amazing life with me.

I'm now of the opinion that if a man starts talking marriage but doesn't propose within a year then he's not going to propose. Move on and give yourself a chance to meet someone else if marriage is what you really want.

Unfortunately, marriage is something that lots of men would rather not do. I know a few women who've essentially had to force their partner's hand in this with carefully veiled ultimatums, such as no marriage=no baby. It's been the case for a couple of women I know that once kids have been in the picture, marriage has been taken off the table. Definitely give the baby your surname.

A mate had almost this exact conversation with me 30 years ago. Marriage was so much responsibility, her boyfriend had said after getting her pregnant. It didn't last much longer: mate became a single parent and several years later married a lovely bloke who brought their daughter up as his own with their joint children. Bio dad did remain in the picture but it wasn't him the daughter chose to give her away at her wedding.

Sorry you are in this situation.

Stand your ground. Baby has your surname. Keep working. Make sure your salary goes into your account. Prepare to go it alone and don’t make any plans that involve him at all. You have given him plenty of time to marry you. He doesn’t deserve you. for you.

What a complete tosser.

What a selfish bastard.

You're three months pregnant and he still can't bring himself to get married. What a CF. He's playing you and he thinks he has the upper hand. Time to remind him you have all the aces.

If it was me I'd call his bluff and find out where the depths of this truly goes.

You say:

"I'll book in for a termination then and you'd better find yourself a solicitor because there's no way I want to share a house with someone who still can't decide if they want to marry me. There's no way I want to have a kid with if you can't commit."

And then seriously think about what comes next.

If you have his child, you'll have to have contact with him for the next 20 years.

Is it worth it?

Some men you have to take down to the wire and show them you're willing to jack EVERYTHING in and then they'll get down on bended knee. Some men are only motivated by a sense of loss. I'm talking from bitter experience. It's only when he saw he'd be alone again that he went through with it. Now 15 years on, he says it's the best thing he ever did.

I'd personally have to test it out and see what his true commitment is because if he says "fine, go ahead and terminate" you'll know what you're really dealing with.

It would be heart-breaking but if he's doing this now, imagine what he'll be like 2, 3 or 4 years down the line.

You need a clear answer. And disappearing with the car and turning phone off is utterly utterly childish. What a wanker you have there. Again, he thinks he's got all the cards. This is a power game and if you want to win you've got to be prepared to lose it all if you want to win it all.

It's time you put the big girl pants on and showed him who is boss.

Give him the ultimatum:

Marriage or it's over and the child may be aborted.

It's really that simple.

Then see what he does. Please update us.

Just out of interest - why is it being suggested that his name is left off the birth certificate? I can't imagine doing that outside of cases where the father is a danger to the mother and/or child. The baby is also his, and with the exception of when baby is very small, perhaps, he deserves 50/50 custody if he wants it. I would hate only seeing my children 50% of the time if my partner and I split up, but I wouldn't try to take away his time with them. Just seems quite extreme.

Also OP, it wouldn't just be a case of affording the mortgage, you will need to buy him out beforehand as well, if he agrees to it, so definitely factor that in too.

Assume that he will not marry you, because he almost certainly won't, and make your decisions based on that. Good to hear you're the higher earner and will give the baby your surname.

@bluenewyear23

We own and it's in both names, will have to figure out if I can manage mortgage alone if we split.

Pregnancy was actually planned - I'm in the last few years I can have a child, so wanted one even if it came before the marriage I thought we had planned. Feel a bit silly about that now, clearly couldn't really trust him. I wish a marriage wasn't important to me, but it is - unsure how to feel otherwise.

You sound very sensible, marriage might even be detrimental to you, especially if you earn more and can return to work quickly.

Will your parents help possibly with childcare?

Perhaps you should tell him, actually you don't want to marry him anymore and he can pay half of everything from now on.

People who actually want to marry someone propose to them. They can't imagine a Plan B, and they don't want to spend the rest of their life NOT married to them. They don't fanny around saying they're GOING to propose.

He has said he will marry you if you insist - what a wonderful generous favour, you lucky girl! Who wouldn't want to tie themselves to a man who had to be forced into it?

Do NOT marry him, unless he comes back with a ring and begs you with tears in his eyes to be his wife as soon as possible. Otherwise, kick him out and plan how you'll cover childcare while you work.

I'm going to go against the grain here. No way would I want to marry a man who wasn't sure he wanted to marry me! My DP is a pretty good father on the whole (though he has become a workaholic, so he is an often absent one) and it may be useful to have another pair of hands around when your baby is small. Lower your expectations for your partner and take care to financially protect yourself. Good luck.

Disappearing and turning off his phone is a red flag to me. Be aware that pregnancy can trigger / escalate domestic abuse

I would think twice about him taking any shared maternity leave especially if it’s after yours.
Could this set him up as a default carer/sahp ?
Take your maternity leave, you may be able to extend it by adding on any carried forward annual leave, get childcare in place and make sure he’s paying half of that and all of the household bills. Don’t go part time or reduce your hours either.

The birth certificate thing is mainly because the dad has to be present when the birth is registered in order to be included and OP may not want that to happen, if his current behaviour continues.

Just something else for her to contemplate.

Do you have a joint account? As he has disappeared, I'd be making sure he can't empty the account.

He never wanted to marry you. If he did he would’ve done it by now. The big row when you got pregnant is because this out he previously had is now gone and he’s tied to you now. It’s unfortunate you got pregnant when you knew he wasn’t properly committed to you. I don’t know what the solution is here unfortunately.

Be prepared for him to kick up a stink about you wanting to give the baby your surname, it’s always the case. Funny how they claim to be non-traditional, but only when it benefits them

The man's a deceptive wanker.
He's completely played you and put you in a position which you might not have chosen to be in if he hadn't deceived you.

Running away with his phone off is majorly adding insult to injury.

When he comes back tell him to leave.

OP take some time to think before you do anything rash like ending the relationship on the say-so of the numerous posters on here.

Yes, his behaviour has been shit. But you clearly had a strong enough relationship to try for a baby. We’re not talking about someone you’ve had a shit relationship with, other than your wish to get married and his wish not to, how has the relationship been?

We don’t know the nature of the argument to start saying that him driving off is a red flag. If it became particularly heated then maybe that’s the best thing for now. All couples argue and in some instances those arguments can result in one or both going off to find space.

I am definitely of the belief that one should be married before having children, but given you weren’t you were clearly happy enough in your relationship to have one, and that whole relationship presumably hasn’t hinged on you being married one day, there’s more to a relationship than that, and given you’ve been talking about it for years, presumably you already knew he was reluctant if he hadn’t proposed?

Take marriage out of the equation. What is your actual relationship like? If you never discussed marriage ever again, what would the relationship be like? That is what you need to build on.

Not giving a baby his surname is inconsequential really. And if you fail to put him on the birth certificate he will simply go to court and it will be done and he will be given parental responsibility. Actions like that are purely to prove a point and nothing more. They have no actual basis in the child’s life.

So, other than marriage, what do you want? Do you really want to leave because he won’t marry you, even though you were quite happy to have a baby with him? A baby is a far greater commitment than marriage. You can get divorced and walk away from one another, once you have a baby you will both be that baby’s parents for the rest of its life. Marriage or no marriage, that’s not going to change.

Thank him for showing his true worth.
Tell him that if he doesn't want marriage and all that goes with it , the security and the knowing the other person has your back, then there is no reason to stay in a relationship.

If he says he wants to take a break, which he may, tell him that your not going to be strung alone while he sleeps with other woman, Pretending it's ok because your on a break. That any chance he has walks out the door if he so much as kisses another woman.
Tell him you are working out your finances going forward as a single mum, and as such once baby is born, he will be paying for his child. Do not go 50/50.

@TheDuchessOfMN

Be prepared for him to kick up a stink about you wanting to give the baby your surname, it’s always the case. Funny how they claim to be non-traditional, but only when it benefits them

Normally because their mates will take the piss!

Well he said that he'll marry you if you insist.

Well how likely does he think it is that you will?

So then he's effectively now turned it into your decision not to marry.

How do these men manage to string women along?

@Berthatydfil

I would think twice about him taking any shared maternity leave especially if it’s after yours. Could this set him up as a default carer/sahp ? Take your maternity leave, you may be able to extend it by adding on any carried forward annual leave, get childcare in place and make sure he’s paying half of that and all of the household bills. Don’t go part time or reduce your hours either.

No it won't.

I did shared parental leave as I got statutory and my DP had an enhanced package. It doesn't give him any advantages at all financially when it comes to our DD.

It did make the bond between them stronger as my DD did and will go to either of us if she wants anything.

I'll never understand folks who think that having a baby together is so much less of a commitment than a marriage

Marriage is a bigger commitment. You can walk away from a child and never look back. If you walk away from a marriage you're spouse can divorce you and take half of everything you have. It's much harder to just walk away from a spouse.

Just out of interest - why is it being suggested that his name is left off the birth certificate? I can't imagine doing that outside of cases where the father is a danger to the mother and/or child

The child takes the mothers name - married or not - by tradition - they don’t as suggested take their fathers name.

*your