Crying over misunderstanding

[Onlyrainbows]

Sorry MN I obviously have no one to talk to this time of day. My DH and I had a minor argument over "budgets" we agreed to to budget £500 per DC for clothes and presents (both birthdays and Christmas). He is of the idea that uniforms should be excluded, I think they should be included. Well, we originally agreed we'd let the oldest one about how much there was in there budgets, and the younger ones just tell them that they had a certain budget that counted for everything, so they could play around with it without knowing the amount. We did tell the oldest one, but my DH regrets it and now we have to retract it. We BOTH agreed that this is what needs to happen, bit then he went on about how we're going to disappoint the again. Then the conversation went sideways (he kept drinking during the course of it) but after 3 hours of it I just feel annoyed and sad that there were so many misunderstandings and there's always my upbringing Vs his and trying to make them align when in reay they were very different. He's asleep and I'm crying fairly pointlessly but I don't know what else to do.

So you want to budget £500 per year for all the kids clothes (except uniform) underwear etc and birthday and Christmases?

And its not because you can't afford more?

And you decided to share this 'good news' with ds? 'Hey, our take home pay will be about 60k next year and we have allocated £500 for anything you need'

My dd is 17, she would think I was off my tits if I shared that as good news. She wouldn't know what to do with that information.

If she need new underwear, we just buy it. If one piece is very expensive and not needed, she just wants it then she would either wait till her birthday or put some money in herself.

If she has no money herself, then she waits. She needs new bras. She doesn't need an expensive pink one, she just wants that one.

I wouldn't be putting a budget on underwear for the year. And I wouldn't be including Christmases and birthdays in the same budget.

Fair enough if you need to. But your income is more than doubling in the next year. Similar outgoing, more money. But scrimping on the kids essentials seems really off.

£500 for everything all year, clothes and presents? That's very little, how is that even doable? Our children's uniforms alone (primary) come to north of £150 without trainers and school shoes, so more like £200+ all in. Child benefit equates to £700 a year (for a second child) so even if you weren't well off it's less than you are getting in benefits to help look after them. I'm amazed you only spend £500 though, kids grow fast, we have to buy new everything for our children every year at least and every couple of months for our youngest.

Has drink been taken, cos you are not making any sense.
It is your job as parents to provide the necessities of life.
School shoes,uniform, clothes to wear outside school.
If you want to set a present budget, fine do so. If they want a pair of expensive trainers, they can ask for them for Xmas or birthday

I just cannot imagine a 3 hour conversation with DH about this sort of stuff!! Particularly our teenage girls bras …. with an income line yours just buy what they need, when they need it, within reason. Save the expensive trainers/coats etc for xmas/birthday presents.

100k income and only spending £500 on your children, wow!! I have a friend i met at uni who was from an affluent background, if you met her you'd have thought she'd come from poverty, she still had socks and underwear from when she was 10 and had holes in her shoes. It was utterly bizarre. She shared with us that she had well over 100k in savings but it was to buy a house, she used to save all her student loan and lived off reduced shelf food. If anyone was throwing out of date food out she'd take it. Serious issues!! Her parents are very wealthy, I could never understand how she lived.

I honestly don't get setting a budget like this unless you are literally struggling to live. If our children need shoes, a coat whatever we just buy it as they need it. We aren't wealthy but on an average income. To me you only live like this out of necessity.

Clothes and presents should definitely be separate budgets.

You need to buy uniform and essential clothes. In terms of upgrades and non-essential clothes I might take a different approach with each child given the age gap.

Giving at least the 16 year old an allowance to budget with would be a good idea. He'll soon learn not to spend it all on crap. Remember that in 2 years time he'll be an adult, potentially needing to budget for rent, bills, etc. It's better to learn now that if he wastes money on sweets he can't buy the new Airforces, than to learn in his first year of uni that if he wastes money on alcohol he can't buy food.

DC (apart from the eldest one) are completely incapable of saving money or doing chores for pocket money

Um... incapable? No, they just choose not to.

If you have a household budget of £100k then your budget of £500 per child, to include birthday and Xmas gifts, uniform and all clothing/essentials is really stingy.

And I expect when you gave the kids the good news, that you were increasing their Xmas and birthday budget, they were excited. Until they realised that sum was also for every single item of clothing they were likely to need throughout the year, including underwear. It's about £40pm isn't it, less than child benefit.

I'm with your dh on this, and would go further than excluding uniform.

Set an annual budget for birthday and Xmas gifts - genuine fun money.

Set an annual budget for school uniform. I would have a total amount from which all of their needs were met, as their needs will differ depending on whether they've grown, are playing sports and so on. Most would be spent at the beginning of the school year, with whatever remains kept for mid-year purchases.

Set a monthly budget per child for clothes - underwear and all non-uniform clothes and shoes. Buy what they need, when they need it. They don't need to know what the budget is. If they make a reasonable request, buy it. If they ask for something designer, they can work for it or put it in their Xmas list.

Most people don't set an annual budget for spending on their kids
Most people just buy essential things when they are needed (assuming they are financially able to)
Most people set a budget for Christmas and birthdays if they have more than one child to be fair but you seem to be massively complicating things with this budget business and now involving the children in it. Also £500 for what? Christmas birthday and clothes/shoes all year? That's not very much.

Have you had counselling OP? Because this is so fucked up, and the fact you can't see that is worrying.

I was a LP, widowed on a low wage topped up with benefits and spent more than that. I was on around £20k a year. I'd work out my disposable income and we'd all get a fair share. I'd kit them out on the basics. They'd get nice things occasionally, like the pink bra, because it's a nice treat and then when my middle DD wanted DM's, Uggs, Hunters (as was the fashion) they would be part of their Christmas present. Non essential clothing from Primark is a treat for people on benefits. Unless you think that your children will spend a life on benefits, you are being too punitive with the budgeting.
Of course your DD's blew their money, that's what happens for a couple of years, then they settle down.
You've been really warped by your childhood. I agree with what your DH's family did and bought the best that they could afford.
Are you spending out on holidays, hobbies etc?

This post has made my head hurt!

Like others have said, if you want to set a budget then give them a separate clothing allowance, don't lump it in with presents, that's just weird!!!

I’m going to go against the majority here and say being frugal and encouraging hand me downs is good for your kids. Instead of buying into rampant and unfettered capitalism, you are teaching them the value of money. I wouldn’t shop at Primark but your daughter wearing your old stuff is cool. Of course they need good quality basics, especially shoes and bras, that serve a purpose, but I don’t understand anyone who thinks you’re being stingy. Spend what you need to - why overspend just because you can afford it? As for it being ‘low level abuse’ - really? What utter crap. You might be doing it for different reasons, but hand me downs help the world. That’s more important than some pathetic need for validation through consumerism, whatever some posters will tell you.

As for the PP and her mate at uni - I would be inspired by someone like that, not shocked. She already had a massive deposit in her early 20s - and she was reducing food waste. I know some people like this, and they are utterly amazing. Their kids have a brilliant life hopping around the various places they’ve bought houses, despite not having the latest trainers.

I'll work it out for you based on what's "normal", ok?

£100 per child for birthday gifts
(As they grow older they prefer more cash and fewer presents so your 9yo would probably get £80 gifts and £20 cash while your 16yo would get £80. Ash and £20 gifts)
£100 per child for Christmas

You buy their school uniforms, genus don't need to know anything about it other than that they have uniform

You buy their basic wardrobe ie underwear, everyday shoes, trainers, summer shoes, winter boots, jeans, shorts. , yes, hoodies, dresses as and when needed
They needn't be reminded of the cost unless they are asking for premium brand clothes in which case they may have an allowance of say £5-£10 a week each according to age. (General rule of thumb is $1 or 50p per year, per week so £6 a week for 12yo, £8 a week for 16yo)
If they wish they can use this allowance to top up clothing spending and therefore buy premium brands.
For example, I'd give my 15yo daughter $15 a week which she could use to pay the difference between $70 trainers and $110 trainers. Equally she could use money from her Saturday job. But so long as she was at school, I supplied all her essentials.

Where I am school uniform is very expensive, $1000 a year, and there is no reason why my children need to be worried about that. It's an adult concern.

I'm not sure how you have managed to complicate this to such an extent. Just pay for the things they need and give them an allowance for the things they want. Birthdays and Christmas separate.

You are putting a price on your children. “You are worth x amount being spent on you per year.” Sensible to do if you are counting every penny in order to survive, but even then I’m not sure it should be shared as ‘good news’.
Instead focus on listening and understanding their needs. Respond to growth spurts and the like, it’ll help them to feel understood and valued. If there is something extra special they would like while you are shopping for the basics, sit down with them and talk about need vs wants, discuss if it is something they’d like to put pocket money towards with you, or keep it for their birthday etc. so they can get the special version, whilst having their needs met. That then will show them about budgeting and the value of stuff in a meaningful less damaging way.

@bingbangbongbash we were subbing her on nights out, taxi rides, meals out she NEVER paid, not something to be inspired by. It's the person who disappears when it's their time to go to the bar and its no fun when it's below freezing and they keep switching the house heating off!! She bought a big house granted in her 20s but she continues to pull the same stunts even now when she's married very well and can work pt!! She's a lovely person but has a lot of issues surrounding her childhood and money.

I would.be more concerned that you and your husband can't have a normal discussion about finances without it making you cry.
You said in your OP there's always my upbringing Vs his and trying to make them align when in reality they were very different
Can you elaborate? It's always about this? What was so different about your upbringings in terms of finances and why does it cause friction?

This thread is fucking batshit.

Why would the presents be in the same budget as clothes?! Who wouldn’t just buy the more expensive bra in the colour their daughter wanted if they had the money?!

Your thought process re “not letting them have nice things so they aren’t disappointed if they can’t have them later” is absolutely depressing and insane. How do you know they can’t have them later? Push them to do well. Stop depriving your children.

Having your children wear your old shoes because you’re too cheap despite having the money to buy some is just what the fuck. Shoes mould to people’s individual feet btw, it’s better for everyone to have their own shoes. This thread has really irritated me.

Jeez oh. This is grim. You’re doing a whole lot of thinking about minutiae! You seriously think that giving your kids a budget for the whole year is going to help them make good decisions and be a good life lesson? I think the only lesson they will learn here is you are tight-fisted and are micro managing them!

Your daughter most likely HAS TO raid your wardrobe and wear your old converse as a necessity, not because she wants to.

Maybe a better lesson would be to buy her some nice quality things and encourage her to look after them.

It all sounds grim and pretty joyless. Your teen wants a pink sloggi bra but that’s seen as a luxury item. Get a grip OP. You earn over 100k. You chose to have children. Spend some money on them. Buy clothes and uniforms throughout the year. Give them regular pocket money and buy them some decent birthday and Christmas gifts. It doesn’t need to be this difficult.

I can’t believe you and your husband actually talk about this in the detail you do. You sound like a right pair of fun sponges.

I am in my 50s and still have warm memories of my dad treating me to a jacket I had been lusting after when I was 12 or my mum buying me something I really wanted. Not for a birthday or Christmas or because it was in my annual budget. But just because I liked it and they wanted to get me it. Simple. No overthinking.

Do you never go shopping with or without your kids and just pick up non essential items just because you know they will like them?

Just out of interest what’s the annual alcohol budget you’ve allowed you and your husband?

Maybe when you’re sober reread this thread, I’m not sure a single person agrees with you. Frankly your proposal is bizarre and will create some weird issues.
You say 2 of your kids are incapable of saving so you don’t give them pocket money. Now is the time to teach them otherwise they’ll end up in debt when they’re older. And it will be your fault for not reaching them financial responsibility.
Btw what you’re proposing is not financial responsibility!

I don't think not letting children have nice things so they don't get used to it sounds like good logic if I am honest...

You can get nice things from second hand shops, or as hand me downs etc, or first hand. We had phases where we didn't have enough money for much new stuff, but then mum did have time and was prepared to travel charity shops with me for nice things. I now don't honestly have the time to trawl charity shops but the compromise is that I'm well enough paid to buy what I want.

I think the purchasing of "basics" Vs "designer" things is a bit of a grey area: I don't think it's just that if it costs more than a Primark/Asda piece of clothing that they should pay the difference (if you have the cash to support that different approach). There are plenty of "basics" that come from more expensive shops but will then last better etc.

I think you/re being a mean tbh. On £100k a year, you can spend more than that on your children's clothes.

I'd budget, say £200 for gifts, and then buy them clothes through the year. And buy them clothes that they want, not cheap versions from TK Maxx or Primark. Why wouldn't you want to buy them Nike trainers if you can afford it? (That said, my 16yo also has a job so she can buy things ). I think you sound a bit strange - teens love Urban Outfitters. A sloggi bra? Buy her one.

Your husband is right, school uniforms should not be included.

But I cannot see how you can't set a budget that rigorous for clothes either. So the budget starts in January, by the time end of October comes round, you've got £200 left for Christmas. One of the DCs have outgrown their shoes, or the sole comes off, it happens!

Will you reduce their Christmas presents because you needed to spend £50 on shoes? I mean how dare they have a growth spurt and need new shoes before the start of the new budget?

As you arguing this for three hours, then crying over it. Your more than doubling family in become next year, what a massive positive. What happens when things get tough?

Your daughter most likely HAS TO raid your wardrobe and wear your old converse as a necessity, not because she wants to

I also suspect this is the case. I grew up very poor and used to wear my dads old jumpers! It wasn’t a fashion choice, I just had hardly any clothes of my own.

You’ve decided you don’t want your kids to be “spoilt”. Fair enough, but you’re going too far the other way. As many other posters have said, basics should be provided regardless. That is the minimum required of a parent. Then a budget for upgrades/gifts is fine.

£500 per year for all clothes, uniform and gifts is insanely small unless you literally can't afford to spend more. Even if you take uniform out of that budget it's still tiny.

You need to provide your children with decent clothes and shoes as standard - that's your job as a parent. You can't then say to them "well, you needed bras you don't get as many presents as your brother who didn't". Do you really not see how fucked up that is?

Next you'll be saying DD gets less because she has to pay for her period supplies out of her budget