Crying over misunderstanding

[Onlyrainbows]

Sorry MN I obviously have no one to talk to this time of day. My DH and I had a minor argument over "budgets" we agreed to to budget £500 per DC for clothes and presents (both birthdays and Christmas). He is of the idea that uniforms should be excluded, I think they should be included. Well, we originally agreed we'd let the oldest one about how much there was in there budgets, and the younger ones just tell them that they had a certain budget that counted for everything, so they could play around with it without knowing the amount. We did tell the oldest one, but my DH regrets it and now we have to retract it. We BOTH agreed that this is what needs to happen, bit then he went on about how we're going to disappoint the again. Then the conversation went sideways (he kept drinking during the course of it) but after 3 hours of it I just feel annoyed and sad that there were so many misunderstandings and there's always my upbringing Vs his and trying to make them align when in reay they were very different. He's asleep and I'm crying fairly pointlessly but I don't know what else to do.

@Mousemay

This becoming more and more bizarre.. sorry you live somewhere with no different seasons but it has a tkmaxx

TK Maxx stores operate throughoutthe United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, Germany, Poland, Austria and the Netherlands

All notoriously seasonless countries.

What about your converse collection then? They are definitely not £10

@sleeping it's me who had the massive payrise (tripled in 12 months). I come from an "affluent" background with "bizarre" budgeting rules. We only got new clothes twice a year but it was proper shopping sprees but would get a CD for Christmas. I also have kept some clothes and shoes from the past 25 years and still wear them! My DH comes from a working class background but his parents always tried to get the best things they could afford.

Oh god I'm out

@mouse converse are not £10, but the last pair I bought was like 5 years ago. My collection is mostly from my 20's/ teens

I just don’t understand either. How the heck you think telling a dependant that they have a budget of 500 for their gifts and clothes and throwing into the mix essentials that you are obliged to supply, is reasonable?

I don’t understand the clothes allowance per child. How is that even meant to work? I would have had years when some of mine didn’t need new shoes at all but others needed multiple pairs due to rapid growth/cycle of being worn out etc. Wouldn’t it be far more sensible for you to give each child a budget of say 300 for gifts and then in your head allocate 600 as a pool (working on the basis of 3 kids), so you could ensure they were all clothes according to actual need vs an individual budget? That way they still get an element of budget ‘choice’ knowing they have a choice of how to budget 300 between Xmas/birthday, an even split, something big for one leaving a box of Choc or small token gift for the other or whatnot.

Honestly I find it baffling how two adults with kids these ages could find all of this such a conundrum.

You can't wear the latest fashions because I wouldn't spend £40 on a jumper. Surely they can have a mix of items?

I think people have varying views on clothes. Some people are happy to spend money on them (I am) and others prefer not too. I personally cannot stand TK Maxx but that's because it resembles a jumble sale. However I know you can get some decent-ish brands.

Personally I think it's a mix of 'high end' and your essential M&S type things. In my day (20 years ago!) sports brands were the in thing (which has laughingly made a come back) and my parents, although not having a massive income, always ensured I had the adidas trousers I wanted. These were a mixture of birthday/Christmas and the odd additional item. However clothes are cheaper now and incomes higher.

It all came from the idea that the DC are coming to an age of wanting to "upgrade" their shoes/clothes

I agree that uniform should be excluded.
And I think that the kids should have budgets for gifts only.
Then you provide the basic amount for an item of clothing and if they want to upgrade they pay the extra from their budget.

They all need to know how much their budget is, if you are going to do any of this, otherwise how can they decide if they want to spend £XX of it?
They need to know how much they have and how much will be left after they have spent the £XX.

All if them need new clothes this year guaranteed, but they all have different preferences. Example, 12yo wants a sloggi bra found black one and white one (decent price) but she wants the pink one which costs double that (which is what made us question the whole essential Vs upgrade). The one thing I don't want my children to get used to is to things they might not be able to afford, it has happened to me and the shock of it isn't nice and IME leaves you dissatisfied with life.

@tiddles that's more or less the principle, and agree with you they'd have to know the budget so they know how they're spending their "extra" money.

Gosh all these people on MN on 100k a year.

If I was on 100K a year I wouldn’t be bothering with the shit quality of primark, the queues, the crowds and how things only last for a couple of washes.

I’d get the kids decent clothing throughout the year. If they wanted a £200 pair of clothes that would go on the Xmas list. If they needed a pair of trainers I’d happy spend £60 until they outgrew/got tatty etc.

Also why don’t you give pocket money if you’re not wanting to spend money on them willynilly? They get to learn the value of money and financial independence.

@purple because we've tried in the past and they ended up getting tat/sweets the girls are completely incapable of understanding what savings are for, and thus why we thought if trying this angle

Honestly OP I think your massively projecting your own childhood experiences here and by doing the complete opposite of what you had, creating a new set of issues.

You also seem to be mentally stuck in your head to your old £45k income and behaving as if your disposable income hasn't moved much when it really must have.

You keep saying you don't give pocket money as the kids don't save and spend on tat but the only way to change that is to keep giving it to them and letting them bear the consequences and learn that they need to.

You've had lots of great advice on this thread of how to rebalance: stick to a purely gift budget, have clothing in your head and just work to it and flex as you go. And if the kids want major upgrades, they need to save for it.

The example of your girl wanting a pretty bra and you refusing as 'you don't want her to get used to nice things' is actually quite cruel to read. She is at a milestone age where she is needing clothes relating to body changes and is being restricted, not because you can't afford it but because you don't see why you should.

As others have posted, I can't fathom why two grown ups can make this so difficult for themselves to work through.

So basically OP you are quite tight with money even when it comes to your children's essentials

You sound absurdly cheap, and I'm a single mom who makes way less than you. Sounds like you want to punish your kids for some reason.

Can you not just save money in a special account for these kind of things and buy them when you need them. I couldn't be bothered working out individual specific budgets for everything. Just pay your bills, save money for long term and short term and when dc need stuff buy it. When they don't need stuff but would like it treat them at birthdays and Christmas.

As regards uniforms surely you will spend loads when they enter Secondary but then only a little for a few years.
Stop wasting time and energy working out every petty detail and buy as needed and not necessarily the cheapest. I think as dc become teens they do need better brands but not off the wall expensive ones. Sometimes it's nice to buy them nice clothes without it being a big deal.

I think maybe your over thinking it. ? We do monthly spreadsheet for expenses as we are a bit hand to mouth so this helps us budget. That includes uniforms, clothes toiletries etc plus food, petrol and bills but we do spend a set amount at Xmas and bdays. Our older dd know how much this is because they asked. I wouldn't have a set budget on clothes I would buy essentials and then treat if I could afford to. What if they don't need as much as you budgeted then u are spending for sake of it, I can see positives of supporting kids in budgeting but I wouldn't over complicate it as they will lose interest.

Your children will not thank you for being like this. You sound pretty cruel. I’ve had a lot of therapy from an upbringing, where my needs were not put first. I was bought one bra at 13 and that was under duress and lots of belittling. At 17 and earning, I bought myself 2 in the correct size as funnily enough I’d changed shape in 4 years. You can afford the pink bra. Buy the bloody pink bra. And stop with the ridiculous mindset that your kids should wear cheap clothes when you’re on 100k. What a miserable existence. A poster was correct, this attitude is low level abusive.

OP why not try this as a compromise

1. Set a budget per child for Xmas and bday. It may differ per child based on age and stage
2. Set a separate budget per child for clothes, shoes, undies. If the 16 year old has a PT job, he should be supplied with the basics (don't read cheap, I mean good quality essentials such as socks, undies, jeans, tops, a coat, shoes) and then over and above he can use his wages unless he decides he wants some swanky item for Christmas . Other kids should get a mix of good quality essential items plus some nicer ones because they deserve it, you can afford it.

Work out that that will cost through a year and that's your budget.

1. Dont mix up the 2 and don't inform the younger ones of any kind of budget. They are children and don't need to be worrying about this stuff!

I encourage you to think about quality and less about price alone. Good quality clothes look better, wash better and last longer and you need fewer of them. This is evidenced by your own, very long lasting, wardrobe. Giving your 9 year old hand me downs only is terribly sad.

Hope you've had some food for thought from this thread and your husbands feedback and will change tack completely.

I would definitely separate the budgets for clothes and gifts op. Also budgets don't have to be equal for it to be fair. They get what they need in terms of clothing. For DS it means I buy more expensive trousers for school because he finds them more comfortable. DD wears black leggings and they cost a fraction of the price.

Same with gifts. So this year DS2 needed a new phone so that's what he got for Christmas. We probably spent more on him than the other two. For his birthday this year DS1 got a new Xbox we spent much less on the other twos birthdays as neither of them asked for anything particularly expensive and they had everything they needed. I don't share budgets with my children. Kids have no proper understanding of the true value of money. It's lovely that your family has had a real upturn in their fortune but I wouldn't be sharing that by telling them you can now spend X rather than y.

What we do for our children to help them budget is run an account for each of them from which they can spend over the year. So if a new Xbox game comes out they can buy it from their money. We're very lucky and this account is funded from cash gifts they receive at Xmas and on their birthdays. But you could do similar with pocket money. It is easy to know if a kid actually really wants something if they're willing to spend their own money.

Agree with other posters.

Your letting the confusing rules in your childhood interfere with your parenting. Me and my Dh were similar - my family had money but there were unsaid rules about clothes, spending. My Dh had little money but things were better organised with spending because they had to be.

Set a Christmas and Birthday budget which is for those occasions only.

Set a clothing budget and let them have free reign (depending on age). If they make a mistake that’s the only way they’ll learn.

Essential shoes, underwear and uniform paid for by you.

It’s that simple. Don’t overcomplicate it! Maybe now and again buy them a treat extra on top of their clothing budget but don’t get drawn into bailing them out. If you don’t make budgeting simple then they’re really going to struggle to do it themselves!

This is all very strange, you sounded like you are on a tight budget then threw in a huge salary. There needs to be separate budgets for essential clothes and gifts. Upgraded clothes can be gifts if that is requested (DD15 likes to receive clothes and underwear from certain brands as gifts but is supplied with basics in addition). Your new budget seems to be random numbers plucked out of the air. For context I would spend more on half your income. Treating children equally does not necessarily mean them all having the same money spent on them, your DH is correct in saying basic underwear for a girl will cost more than a boy for example and uniform and basics need to separate from gifts.

I don't understand why you're depriving them incase they have less in the future, what a horrible way to live. Being frugal as you have money is fine, being frugal with money is also fine, being tight when you have money and not providing basics is unnecessary and abusive.

Don’t agree with hand me downs being sad if they’re supplemented by new clothes.