Vaccine arguments are pulling us apart

[SmithCW]

Hi everyone,

This is really hard for me to talk about as I know how judgemental some people are over anything COVID related. So, both me and my husband aren't vaccinated against COVID. At first it was because we weren't old enough (mid 20s) but when it became available for us we, like many of our peers, were hesitant to take the leap. The vaccine felt too new and we knew we would be TTC within the next few months and wanted to make sure it would be safe. My husband felt strongly that he didn't need it (98% survival rate for his age).

Over time there's so much more evidence about the side effects and whatnot and that coupled with the extreme pressures from society I've wanted to get vaccinated for the last few months. Problem is - he doesn't and really doesn't want me to either. His family (my in laws) have flipped and gone massive anti-vaxx in all the crazy extreme ways (they want us to promise we'd never get it) and although my husband isn't like that I can't help but feel he is heavily influenced by his family but he thinks I'm heavily influenced by mine (all had the vaccine and are desperate for me to).

It's hard to put this into words or to make people understand but I now feel CONSTANTLY anxious over this - it's like a dark cloud that follows me around. I feel like a black sheep in society and I HATE IT. But I'm also not ready to risk my marriage over it? I am so scared this will tear us apart and we are only newlyweds. We got married in Aug and have been TTC since. I just don't know what's right here. His family (especially his mum) are so full on about it that I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated but I've been with him for 8 years and his parents are like parents to me - I'm so so scared of upsetting them. It's also sooooo hard when your husband is begging for you not to have it. He says he probably will get it eventually but not for a few years when he feels extremely confident that it won't have any future effects on our children and that we can't possibly know it won't for sure as it's not been around long enough.

I know he sounds OTT but he is honestly the most chilled guy - this is so unlike him. I have this fear that if I go and get it he: a) might just leave me. B) if I were to miscarry/ anything wrong with our child he'd blame me C) I'd tear him away from his family. They would bring this up at EVERY family gathering for years to come.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation. I suppose I'm looking for some GENUINE advice here. I feel like it's breaking me apart and I can't cope anymore but I love him. I'm not stupid or naive here but I want a way to navigate and handle this in the right way.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I don't cause too much controversy- that's not my aim.

Draw a very clear line in the sand here. He does not, ever, ever ever make decisions about your body for you. Nor do your ILs. Nor should you trust other peoples judgements over your own.

Have the vaccine and tell them afterwards. Don't tell them in advance but message them when it's done. Let them know you have made the right decision for you and won't be discussing it further.

You are both far too enmeshed with what your in laws think.

You have no idea if you get pregnant what he might start to control. How you give birth, what if he doesn’t want you to have an epidural, birth plans, bloods, how many scans etc. This could be the very tip of a very dangerous iceberg.

@ChristmasHost21

In October Unvaccinated pregnant women make up one fifth of most critically ill coronavirus patients in England

This was from sky news

Do ot to protect you and any potential babies

This. Also it really is your choice and body . I agree with pp who thinks you should question having children with someone who can’t respect this. dH and I are both vaccinated, but if i had chosen not to be, he would accept that as my choice. You realise that if you have a baby you will face this pressure from his family not to vaccinate your baby don’t you ? You have to stand up and make your own decisions at some point.

From a pregnancy standpoint what is your DH POV on the flu jab, the whooping cough jab (both advised during pregnancy) then the vaccines your child would have after your pregnancy?

The covid vaccine isn’t something that’s been created in 12 months it’s been in process for years and most other vaccines are created out of the blueprint of the last (flu mmr etc) all of which you will be expected to give your child.

I feel for you from a personal dilemma POV OP but honestly you should be having a wider conversation here rather than just specifically about the covid vaccine. Ask him how he’ll cope if you become hospitalised with covid? Does he believe in covid itself? Sounds like he’s being heavily influenced by his family which in itself is a red flag he should be able to speak for himself.

The thing is, when you have children they become number 1, you put them before yourself and your partner, protecting them is first and foremost and you have to see eye to eye with your partner on this issues medical or otherwise, and if you can’t agree to make choices based on what you feel is best for you now; how can you defend the decisions you feel as strongly about for your future child/ren?

@BasicDad

The overwhelming majority are going to say, your body, your choice, your right. Which is 100% correct.

You really shouldn't be considering having children with someone that can't understand and respect something as simple as this. Sorry.

this absolutely this.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation.

You know when people come onto mumsnet asking for advice because their arsehole husband is making them miserable but they have kids and/or she's not financially independent or whatever, and people say "Why did you marry and have kids with this guy in the first place??"

Well here's your chance to not be one of those people in a few years' time. Don't marry and have kids with an arsehole. I don't see why you think people shouldn't advise you that someone who would leave you for getting a vaccine is a dick.

Sorry OP I would be running for the hills to get away from him and his family 🤯

Firstly I think families really need to establish that it is up to no one but the person themselves to decide what happens to their body, it is basic common respect. You don't have to agree with their choices, but it is not for anyone to insist one way or another. The quicker this can be agreed the better. I am pro vaccine, but I would not force my opinions on others. We live in a free society.

I would question having children with someone that did not allow you to take decision for yourself. Why not try this:

'I am getting the vaccine tomorrow dh'

That is it, no explanations no discussion. It is your body op, and you will be the one most at risk when pregnant (not your dh)

no matter what people say long term testing of the vaccine is not complete and we really don’t know if there will be side effects.

Total rubbish. And a complete misunderstanding of how vaccines work in the human body.

Any side effects from a vaccine (and all vaccines can have them) will show up within days of the vaccine being administered. They cannot randomly appear months later. I can't believe people are still spouting this shit.

Couldn't be part of a family that thick.

Read this and then get your husband to read it. www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

You are in a very vulnerable position because you seem to have given away your power to be an adult to your in laws.

Without wishing to sound rude, it doesn’t sound like you are ready to have a baby.

A marriage where your husband doesn’t allow you bodily autonomy and threatens to leave you if you protect your own health is not an environment to bring a baby into. He’s being coercive now; abusive men often ramp up abuse while their partner is pregnant/post-partum. And if you can’t even stand up for yourself against a controlling husband and inlaws, how are you going to protect a child?

They are making the mistake of comparing vaccination risk to zero risk. However, that’s not the position we’re in. You have to weigh up risk v benefits of vaccination against the extremely likely situation of catching Covid. You wouldn’t be pregnant in a germ-free isolation bubble, you’d be immune-suppressed in a world full of Covid, living with households who have put themselves at increased risk on purpose.

If you want to have a baby in this family and be able to cope, you need to toughen up. In your shoes I would have the vaccine, and think carefully about TTC. It sounds like you’ve swapped an alcoholic family for a deranged family. Newlywed or not, don’t fall for the sunken costs fallacy.

"My husband is vaccinated and I am not. Of course I wish he wasn’t"

Why on earth would you wish that?

You need to do what you want to do to your own body OP.

THEN deal with the fall out.

If the fall out is your husband threatening to leave you and/or telling tales to MIL then treat him/them with the contempt this deserves. ie: tell him if that's how he feels then not to let the door hit his arse on the way out. And mean it.

It's 2021 OP. You shouldn't be fretting about what your MIL will find out about YOUR decisions to vaccinate your own body!

The way this is playing out is as if it's historical battle about catholic/protestant religion or something!

I also am waiting until the trial is finished and results are proven before committing to a life long medical procedure.

I assume you made that decision for yourself Arabella and are not being coerced into it, nor at increased risk with a pregnancy.

What you choose to do is your choice, but being railroaded into not getting a vaccine because of family and dh pressure is totally different. Can you please at the very least, acknowledge the difference.

You do you. If you want the vaccine - have it.

Please PLEASE don't have children with him though, he's shown you who he is, seriously consider what bringing a child into this shitshow could actually mean.

Just get it and don't tell him if it's going to cause THAT many issues.

I'd really recommend for you to follow 'Pregnant then screwed' on Instagram and read the Vaccine highlights/posts on there. Very informative if you're TTC or pregnant.

You said he is very chilled but is he really? Perhaps this is the first time you have something serious to disagree on.

I totally understand what you are saying you don’t want him to leave you over this, especially as only just married. If you caved on this would this be the start of you backing down every time for fear of it costing your marriage?

You have said he is ok with childhood vaccinations but what if his parents start getting a twisted view on this and talk him around.

I would get the vaccine but tell him. If you don’t there is a secret between you. Even if it doesn’t come out the controlling issue hasn’t really been dealt with and could get worse. I wouldn’t tell PIL. If it comes up just say I think we have different viewpoints on vaccine so perhaps not discuss it. I have a family member who has not had the vaccine who I do worry about. We have agreed not to discuss it as we will not agree. They didn’t say I should not have it and I have not said they should.

I would totally think about delaying TTC. I don’t think your life would be your own if you had child. Totally dictated to by DH and PIL.

OP, you do understand that you don't need his approval to have this vaccine? The way you are saying 'I'll tell him I want to get the vaccine' - erm, why?

If you want it, get it. It does not affect him in any way. Or his family.

But please do not have his baby. You cannot trust him to give you any say in how the baby is raised, and you now know you are unable to disagree with him even on an issue that is as clear-cut as 'your body, your choice'.

I agree with those who are saying to leave him. Otherwise you will be posting far worse dilemmas in the future.

As a compromise I'd say perhaps go and get your vaccination but keep it quiet. Do you really want to be in a relationship where you have to conceal things like that in order to keep the peace though? Not healthy. I'd also be wary of TTC with him because what if this hooha over you getting a vaccine seeps into parenting decisions with your child? You say his family are anti vax, will they expect you to not get your childs routine vaccinations and cause a scene when you do? Honestly I'd give it a bit more time before TTC so you can see what exactly you're signing up for with him and his family.

Go get vaxxed. Do not be dictated to by your husband and his stupid family. It might be a blessing if they cut you out.

Unvaccinated pregnant women make up one fifth of most critically ill coronavirus patients in England

^this!!

Sadly this isn't talked about enough is it

It's very dangerous to catch covid when pregnant in your third trimester for both mum and baby

"Having COVID-19 during pregnancy carries a far higher risk than having the vaccine, particularly in the later stages where it can have serious consequences for both mother and baby. It can double the chance of stillbirth and triples the chance of a preterm birth, which can have a long-term health impact for the baby"

Personally I would be terrified to be pregnant and unvaccinated. I've been pregnant and felt how much it affects your breathing, both normally and with a bad cold (pre-Covid). There is a huge amount of data showing that being pregnant with Covid is very dangerous.

Do you really want to be stuck with this man - and his family - telling you what to do with your own body for the rest of your life?