Vaccine arguments are pulling us apart

[SmithCW]

Hi everyone,

This is really hard for me to talk about as I know how judgemental some people are over anything COVID related. So, both me and my husband aren't vaccinated against COVID. At first it was because we weren't old enough (mid 20s) but when it became available for us we, like many of our peers, were hesitant to take the leap. The vaccine felt too new and we knew we would be TTC within the next few months and wanted to make sure it would be safe. My husband felt strongly that he didn't need it (98% survival rate for his age).

Over time there's so much more evidence about the side effects and whatnot and that coupled with the extreme pressures from society I've wanted to get vaccinated for the last few months. Problem is - he doesn't and really doesn't want me to either. His family (my in laws) have flipped and gone massive anti-vaxx in all the crazy extreme ways (they want us to promise we'd never get it) and although my husband isn't like that I can't help but feel he is heavily influenced by his family but he thinks I'm heavily influenced by mine (all had the vaccine and are desperate for me to).

It's hard to put this into words or to make people understand but I now feel CONSTANTLY anxious over this - it's like a dark cloud that follows me around. I feel like a black sheep in society and I HATE IT. But I'm also not ready to risk my marriage over it? I am so scared this will tear us apart and we are only newlyweds. We got married in Aug and have been TTC since. I just don't know what's right here. His family (especially his mum) are so full on about it that I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated but I've been with him for 8 years and his parents are like parents to me - I'm so so scared of upsetting them. It's also sooooo hard when your husband is begging for you not to have it. He says he probably will get it eventually but not for a few years when he feels extremely confident that it won't have any future effects on our children and that we can't possibly know it won't for sure as it's not been around long enough.

I know he sounds OTT but he is honestly the most chilled guy - this is so unlike him. I have this fear that if I go and get it he: a) might just leave me. B) if I were to miscarry/ anything wrong with our child he'd blame me C) I'd tear him away from his family. They would bring this up at EVERY family gathering for years to come.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation. I suppose I'm looking for some GENUINE advice here. I feel like it's breaking me apart and I can't cope anymore but I love him. I'm not stupid or naive here but I want a way to navigate and handle this in the right way.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I don't cause too much controversy- that's not my aim.

this does add a complication as no matter what people say long term testing of the vaccine is not complete and we really don’t know if there will be side effects.

Except the scientific data shows there have never been long term effects from any vaccine.

Funny how people are all of a sudden concerned about the unknown long term effects of his but happily consume the many everyday things where there are known side effects.

I think that's optimistic tbh. Usually it's watching an Instagram story and sharing a meme that was forwarded on WhatsApp.

🤣 sounds about right!

@MissMaple82

Just so you know, I am mid 30's and had the Pfizer back in early September and I never got my next period so I’ve chosen not to have anymore. I've still not had a period 3 months on, and so signs or symptoms of one arriving anytime soon. If its halting periods, what else is it doing to our internal organs, more importantly our reproductive organs. I'd be wary for a whole host of reasons if your wanting to conceive.

And there are hundreds of thousands of women who haven't had this what so ever and are now pregnant.

There are many many reasons for lack of periods you are associating it with a vaccine.

As for what it does to your other organs or reproductive organs the answer is nothing, your body produces the antibodies, it becomes T cell memory.

Research and data is clear including world leading obstetricians and reproductive health experts!

@OnlyAFleshWound exactly

it actually makes me feel really sad people are more worried about a couple of period cycles being off than the risk to mum and baby of catching covid during latter stages of pregnancy

*What qualifies you and your husband (or the OP and her husband) to 'research and research some more'? Are any of you virologists or biologists or even medical doctors? What are your academic credentials and experience? How do they qualify you to override the advice from scientists and virologists and epidemiologists?

As a bare, bare, minimum you don't even have access to the journals and papers that would enable you to read the current research, even if you had a chance of understanding the science.*

THIS!!

As a scientist, it absolutely drives me crazy when people talk about doing their “research” on covid. They have no clue what they’re talking about, and if presented with any actual scientific papers they wouldn’t
be able to understand it anyway.

The absolute arrogance of the dimwits who bang on about their research is astounding. Listen to the actual experts, you are embarrassing yourself going on about doing your own research.

As for the poster who said her mother spent hours (!) each night reading scientific papers and convinced them not to get jabbed on this basis. I would love to know what papers? I would be genuinely interested to read them and see how she came to that conclusion. If you don’t mind giving me the names or authors of some of these papers.

And this is the reason he wants to wait until we've conceived. He knows many people (and so do I) who have had this side effect.

Many many women have this issue every year but it gets ignored usually. Only this year has it become something people have noticed about women. Pre-vaccine women would get fobbed off with causes such as diet, stress, hormones, weight or just being female.

I don't know any stats about pregnancy and the vaccine since it will never apply to me. However, I think you are getting bogged down in it all.

It's no ones business, and that includes your husbands, whether you have the jab or not. Just go and do it. This is not 'a conversation' you need to be having with anyone, least of all your in laws. Do your own research, make an informed choice, and do what you want to do. And stop discussing it, seriously. Any man who thinks they have a say in what happens to your body is not worth having.

There's nothing to discuss though op, you want the vaccine so you get it. It's your body, end of story, nothing to do with him. He is abusive and a moron to boot, sorry. You want advice on how to handle this, you tell him you're getting it and if he has a problem with it then he can fuck right off.

@Nanny0gg I've had both my whooping cough and flu vaccine whilst pregnant. They've been around for years and pregnant women have been taking them for years. The same is not true of the Covid vaccine.

I know people who've had all the Covid jabs and still caught it. I know people who haven't had the jab and haven't caught Covid.

Nobody cared pre 2019 if you had the flu vaccine even though plenty of people died from that. All of a sudden people's vaccine history is everyone's business.

[quote wannabeamummysobad]@Nanny0gg I've had both my whooping cough and flu vaccine whilst pregnant. They've been around for years and pregnant women have been taking them for years. The same is not true of the Covid vaccine.

I know people who've had all the Covid jabs and still caught it. I know people who haven't had the jab and haven't caught Covid.

Nobody cared pre 2019 if you had the flu vaccine even though plenty of people died from that. All of a sudden people's vaccine history is everyone's business. [/quote]
Are there more deaths from flu than from covid?
Data from the Office for National Statistics show that in England and Wales the number of deaths from influenza was 1598 in 2018 and 1223 in 2019. This is way below the annual deaths from covid-19, which at the current rate of around 800 deaths a week in England and Wales equates to more than 40 000 a year.
www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514
Covid and flu: what do the numbers tell us about morbidity and deaths?
BMJ 2021; 375 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n2514 (Published 14 October 2021)

That's 1223 A YEAR from flu, and 800 A WEEK from covid.

And yes- the vaccine isn't guaranteed to stop you catching covid - though it has a very good chance of doing so. What it does is stop you getting severely ill, hospitalised and/or dying.

My husband and I (fully vaxxed and boostered) both currently have covid. He's completely, 100% fine . I am a bit under the weather, but still up and about, eating and drinking etc.

Do you really, really not know this yet? How is it possible that anyone still doesn't know this?

I think it very normal for him to have worries and once rumours are read, whether proved true or false, we cannot unread them, and name calling etc does not help. If i was you i would get vaccinated and postpone ttc for a time

[quote wannabeamummysobad]@Nanny0gg I've had both my whooping cough and flu vaccine whilst pregnant. They've been around for years and pregnant women have been taking them for years. The same is not true of the Covid vaccine.

I know people who've had all the Covid jabs and still caught it. I know people who haven't had the jab and haven't caught Covid.

Nobody cared pre 2019 if you had the flu vaccine even though plenty of people died from that. All of a sudden people's vaccine history is everyone's business. [/quote]
But when I was small they were new.

And people were absolutely desperate to take them because they realised what the alternative was.

I am vaccinated, because I wanted to be. My family are too.
Although I haven't had the booster and won't do either until I have to (ie for travel).
My other half isn't vaccinated at all. His mum, dad and grandad are and go on at him all the time about having them. Literally every conversation starts and ends with go and get jabbed etc. The rest of his family aren't and continuously post 'anti-vax' things across social media.
My other half has had covid and was knocked off his feet. Most of his unvaccinated family have had it too. One was in hospital with pneumonia from it. Still they won't have it.
Does it bother me my other half hasn't had it, not really. He's young (32), relatively healthy and is active with work. He knows what could happen in the very small % so if he can live with that then so can I.
Is he anti all vax, absolutely not. Our children are vaccinated, there wasn't even a discussion.
What does bother me the constant moaning from his parents and my family 'why don't I tell him to have it done, he's a fool, he's putting you all at risk, he's being selfish' It drives me mad.. I repeat like a robot, it's his choice, we understand the risks, it's not your business.
My firm belief if that everyone should have a choice. And if you don't agree tough shit as it's not your decision to make. You need to make it very clear to all parties involved that if you want the jab then that's final and they have no right to question you. Just as you have no right to question them not having it. You need to stand firm with your husband and his family that the decision is yours and yours alone. You need to nip it in the bud that anyone has a say in what you choose to do with your body. You need to snap back at them, every single time they question you or try to tell you to do this or that. Easier said than done but it's the only way I can see you moving forward.

@SmithCW has he considered the possible effects/consequences of getting covid and what happens to his/your body during and after that? I gotta be honest here and say that while I don't like medication (having been addicted to pain relief at one time) I bit the bullet and got my vaccines & booster without hesitation. Omicron is hospitalising so many unvaccinated people now it's not worth the risk.
One look at Derek and Kate Garraway would definitely have me scurrying off to the clinic if I hadn't already had it. I do know people who have long covid and it's bloody awful. The only reason Derek Garraway is in the news with his long covid is because of fame, not rarity of his condition.

If you want to look into it properly, I recommend Prof Tim Spector who runs the Zoe study.

As for the in laws, don't tell them anything. You don't need to and it's none of their business. Would you tell them if you had a massive dose of thrush? Anal fissures from chronic constipation? How about a nasty cyst on your fanny? No. Your physical, mental and emotional health is your concern

So true wannabeamummy I do feel the op should do what she wants to do, and not take any orders from anyone, everyone is jumping on the vaccine wagon, personally I’m unvaccinated and won’t be, my choice of course, I’m not an antivaxxer, but I also never have the flu jab either! Most in my family are fully vaxxed, a couple aren’t and feel the same way as I do, if you really want the vacc op then go for it,

@BoredZelda

this does add a complication as no matter what people say long term testing of the vaccine is not complete and we really don’t know if there will be side effects.

Except the scientific data shows there have never been long term effects from any vaccine.

Funny how people are all of a sudden concerned about the unknown long term effects of his but happily consume the many everyday things where there are known side effects.

That’s absolute rubbish, if you read the literature with every vaccine you will see that every vaccine or medicine you take has known side effects. The question is how many people they effect!

Op: read this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10350549/Unvaccinated-mother-30-dies-Covid-intensive-care-two-months-giving-birth.html

Your life your body

• And this is the reason he wants to wait until we've conceived. He knows many people (and so do I) who have had this side effect.

We're still discussing! *

And I know many women who have conceived successfully a month after their vaccine and are having healthy pregnancies on that logic you can say a side effect of them receiving their vaccine was that they became pregnant.......

**OnlyAFleshWound

Nearly 1 in 5 COVID-19 patients who are most critically ill are pregnant women who have not been vaccinated. Of those pregnant women in hospital with symptomatic COVID-19, 98% are unvaccinated, and no fully vaccinated pregnant women were admitted to intensive care with COVID-19 in England between February and the end of September 2021. Around 1 in 5 women who are hospitalised with the virus need to be delivered preterm to help them recover and 1 in 5 of their babies need care in the neonatal unit.**

^^This

PLUS

If you get COVID whilst pregnant you may not end up in hospital but are at significantly higher risk for blood clots and will likely need to take Clexane injections during pregnancy. Not nice, been there done it.

Whether you choose to have the vaccine or not, for the love of god, stop trying to have a baby with him. Immediately.

2 people with diametrically opposed views about something so fundamental have no business bringing a child into it.

I don't even understand his logic tbh. He doesn't want you to get the vaccine because but if you must have it you should at least wait until you're pregnant? Surely he would want you to do it before becoming pregnant so that only affects you and not the baby? Like "I'm worried this food is poison but if you must eat it at least wait until you're pregnant". It's totally incoherent. If he's scared for adults to be vaccinated he's hardly going to be OK with it when your baby will also be exposed by you having it. It's possible he just see's you as a baby machine and doesn't care if you and the baby get just as long as you're pregnant by then, but it's more likely imo that this is part of a manipulative long game where as soon as you become pregnant he gets to throw out your "my body my choice" arguments by saying that it's his baby too and accuse you of harming the baby if you get vaccinated etc. He will guilt and cajole you to not get vaccinated until you have given birth just in case, then until you have finished breastfeeding, then it'll be something else. OP you know the dangers of covid to pregnant women, so how does it make any sense to get vaccinated after you're pregnant? He isn't listening to your feeling and compromising, he's stalling for time until he can come up with some new way to prevent you from making your own decisions about your healthcare.

I’m pretty sure the OP didn’t start a thread to have people tell her she should get the jab /not get the jab because of x,y,z. She wanted advice on her situation re. Family and if she wants the jab then she should definitely get it.
Myself and a few other posters are in the same position as OP where one party in a marriage wants it, the other doesn’t. Thankfully it seems we are all in relationships where there is mutual respect for differing viewpoints and for bodily autonomy.
OP -

1. Don’t discuss your medical matters with your in laws unless YOU want to. Make sure husband knows you don’t want him to discuss your private medical matters with them either. Stock answer if they start asking is “I’m not comfortable discussing such private matters”. Repeat as needed. Same for anything else, they will by the sounds of it attempt to get an oar in for many matters.
2. With your husband say you understand his concerns but it’s your decision ultimately. “It’s my body and I have to choose what is right for me as you have done”.

OP I don’t believe you’re in an abusive relationship and there is such polarity at the moment which is fine but the problem is everyone is trying to convince the other side their views are right and the others are wrong. We can only decide what feels right for us. I can understand your husband feeling worried especially with his family dumping their opinions on him and interfering in your lives. But it’s your body. We can’t expect our loved ones to do what WE think is right if it doesn’t affect us.
If he won’t respect your decision and treats you negatively in anyway because you make a decision that is right for you, then I do believe that would then be abusive. As others have said, if you got pregnant, you need to decide on birth setting, getting whooping cough vaccine, decide on painkillers, decide on vitamin k (injection or oral), decide how to deliver placenta, delayed cord clamping, how to feed your child, etc etc. And I’m sorry but ultimately these are almost all decisions for you to make. You can ask his advice but ultimately it’s you giving birth. You need to be able to trust that he will respect and support you no matter what decisions you make for your health.

Get vaxed and don't tell him
And seriously consider whether this is the future you want for yourself and your children

" I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated "
uhuh? No thanks

OP. My mum works in a hospital. They have a ward for people with Covid.

90% of them are unvaccinated. One of them is in for the fourth time and now has a tracheotomy.

Millions of people have had the jab with no serious side effects. The same cannot be said for covid.