AIBU or is DP acting insane?

[serenities]

DP and I don't live together. I am a single parents to DS3 who has a chest infection and rapid breathing, currently waiting for a call back for him to be seen by the out of hours. I also have a chest infection.

I spent Christmas with DP and his family (7 mins away) but I went home around 1 or 2am with DS as he was quite unwell. My house gets messy, I work full time and I am chronically ill and sometimes I just cannot be bothered. The kitchen is messy atm and DP and I were going to do it together on Christmas Eve but didn't have chance due to Christmas prep etc. and barely been home.

DP was going to come over today. I told him over text that I had a chest infection (I get them fairly often so know what it feels like) and that DS was going to be seen by out of hours today but that I was waiting for a call back. He said "oh that's your day written off then, any chance you could clean the kitchen?"

He always says he doesn't like mess and it stresses him out, so prefers when my house is all tidy. Fair enough.

I then said "I've just told you we're both not well?"

He then goes on to say a chest infection doesn't mean I can't clean, mop and wipe down surfaces. He said he would really appreciate it and the mess isn't going anywhere. I told him I'm not going to be doing it today, and to not come over if it's such an issue for him. He said "mess really brings me down" and mentioned how he tidied upstairs all by himself for me. He then went on to say "I want to come over and I want for you to want me to be happy when I'm over".

I'm kept saying, I am not doing it today. He said I've been in pain for the past week so he has done the work for me, but the mess won't go away regardless of how I feel.

I suggested we did the kitchen on Christmas Eve, but it was him who said he was too tired. I mentioned this and he said he would've done it if I had pushed him to.

I told him I hate him telling me what do to, and that you're meant to do nice things for people because you want to, not to throw them back in your face. He thinks the fact I've said he's being controlling etc. is "fucked" and extremely hurtful.

He said he was coming over in that moment, I said no. I don't want you to. He kept saying he was and that he was in his car about to leave, I told him literally over ten times not to come over and that he was not coming in.

At one point he said if he turned up and I didn't answer the door then we were over. I said ok, save yourself the journey we are over now if that's how you feel. Then he said me saying that, was also "fucked".

He now wants to talk over the phone to resolve this. AIBU to tell him to just fuck off? I don't know if I have been a bit of a dick here, I suspect I have.

You were absolutely right in your OP he's being controlling. He may well intend it as motivation and have thought it might help you, but it's still him being controlling.

@cathotelier

I don’t think people should be shouting ‘abusive’ or ‘gaslighting’ based in this thread. It can be very damaging. The fact is, none of us know these people; nobody has seen the flat and obviously, on any thread such as this, you are only getting one perspective.

We don't need to see it. He doesn't live there. He can piss off

@cathotelier

I don’t think people should be shouting ‘abusive’ or ‘gaslighting’ based in this thread. It can be very damaging. The fact is, none of us know these people; nobody has seen the flat and obviously, on any thread such as this, you are only getting one perspective.

It doesn't matter what the flat is like. It could be spotless, it could be a complete tip. It's still none of his business whether the person who lives there spends their time cleaning it or not.

@cathotelier

I don’t think people should be shouting ‘abusive’ or ‘gaslighting’ based in this thread. It can be very damaging. The fact is, none of us know these people; nobody has seen the flat and obviously, on any thread such as this, you are only getting one perspective.

Wowsers.

I didn't know that controlling behaviour is excusable if the woman's housekeeping can be deemed substandard @cathotelier.

I think the correct initial response would have been 'fuck off'.

I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but anyway -

• if you were going away for Xmas (OP says she has been a guest at his family’s home), would you have left a messy kitchen to fester and await you on your return? I think, for most people, the answer would be, “no.”

• Sounds like her MIL and the DP’s family has been catering for OP and her son all Xmas. Supposing the MIL had decided it was too much bother to tidy up as she went - would that have made for a pleasant / relaxing stay for OP?

• If you were dating a man, but every time you went over there, there were dishes left out for days etc etc, would this be an attractive quality? Would you look forward to going over there? Would you find it disrespectful after a certain point? If you were to say something, would you be manipulative / gaslighting / abusive?

I think all you can do at this point OP is see what happens next. To me, this was a shitty control move, and he's so contrite now because you didn't cave and do as he said. He doesn't live there, end of story. If he doesn't want to sit with his unwell partner and her unwell child in a house where the kitchen is untidy but the home is clean, at Christmas, well, that's his lookout. Mean, not very loving, selfish? Yes. But still his prerogative. Making you clean while ill is not.

I'm afraid this sort of 'helping you to be your best self' from a partner is never the altruism they pretend it is. Wait til the next time you say fine, end it then. He won't like losing his power, I bet.

Untidiness. Messiness. Who gives a fuck? I leave washing for days, let items pile up on the side, generally ignore chores. I like to spend time with my kids and my own hobbies. And sometimes I'm too unwell. As long as its not unhygienic or too gross, again, who gives a fuck?

Also he doesn't even live with you. Imagine actually living with him. What a total stress.

@cathotelier you're not playing devils advocate. You're playing 1950's housewife.
If he's not comfortable in her house he doesn't need to be there.

She's said it's not dirty. It's not unclean. It just needed sprucing up. Some of it was his mess.

Op I'm a sahm with a 4&3 yo no illnesses/disabilities etc and I swear to god if I sit down for 5 mins my house is a complete tip, so genuinely well done on you holding down a job while parenting a young child and running a home all while battling a chronic illness. You should be praised not put down. You sound amazing.

There is no harm in some meas as long as it's not unhygienic which I see from your posts it's not.
You have one life spend it taking care of your little person and yourself.
How are you both today?

Now onto the man issue? What does your gut tell you, I sense your debating whether you want this relationship?

Personally I wouldn't be able to date someone whose house was always messy and filthy. But I wouldn't try to make them bend to my will, I would walk away.

I also wouldn't date someone who who nagged me to tidy up my own home all the time.

I think both of you are being unreasonable and you aren't really compatible.

“@cathotelier you're not playing devils advocate. You're playing 1950's housewife.
If he's not comfortable in her house he doesn't need to be there.”

It’s quite boring and way too predictable to just use ‘the 1950s’ MN trope (yawn).

The fact remains, nobody knows these people and it’s too premature to be calling ‘abuse.’ Even if you were their counsellor or therapist and had seen them both over a number of sessions, you would be careful before casually throwing such terminology about. All people have here is a few posts to go on.

And I agree with “if he’s not comfortable in her house he doesn’t need to be there.’ This is precisely what will happen / is happening already.

So either some compromise or mutual understanding is reached, or they will just have to accept they are incompatible.

He keeps saying he is hurt that he has tried to help, and has acted from a good place but I don't believe him.

No adult wth a healthy respect for another adult thinks the OK to bully someone into cleaning their house to the visitors exacting standards.

Things which are irrelevant:
The state of your kitchen
Your limitations due to chronic ill health

Things which are relevant
IT IS YOUR HOME and you can keep it however the hell you like.

Please tell him to fuck off and grow up.

FWIW I'm pretty fussy about a clean and tidy house but I do not attempt to impose those standards on others and neither do I judge people who don't prioritise mopping the kitchen floor over everything else in their life.

He wouldn't be invited back to MY house!!

@cathotelier

I don’t think people should be shouting ‘abusive’ or ‘gaslighting’ based in this thread. It can be very damaging. The fact is, none of us know these people; nobody has seen the flat and obviously, on any thread such as this, you are only getting one perspective.

Why not? The signs are there, the script is being used etc etc. If it walks like a narc controlling abuser, talks like a narc controlling abuser, chances are it's a narc controlling abuser.

@serenities

He has said he was pushing me to clean was because he wanted me to clean for myself, but knew I wouldn't if it was to help myself. But I am more likely to do something for others, so he tried to motivate me by getting me to do it for him. But that he wasn't actually bothered if I did it for him or not.

Oh OP that's so manipulative, it gives me the creeps! This and the fact he would not respect that you didn't want him to come over, then threatened to finish with you if you kept refusing, are a whole carnival of red flags and a deafening load of alarm bells! If I were you I'd dump and block and focus on minding my child and myself. The housework never goes away but your health can be destroyed for good if you don't look after it. My husband is prone to chest infections too and I give him inhalations of tea tree, frankincense, eucalyptus and maybe a drop of melissa essential oils when he's brewing one. I got him on holy basil tablets a year ago and he's only nearly had one chest infection since, which was headed off at the pass by an inhalation as I described. That bloke is not only a cheeky fecker for demanding you clean up for him, he's a selfish, heartless git for not being concerned about your child and you, and only being bothered about his own finer feelings! He's not trying to motivate you, he's trying to control you! Get rid! He'd only get worse!

- if you were going away for Xmas (OP says she has been a guest at his family’s home), would you have left a messy kitchen to fester and await you on your return? I think, for most people, the answer would be, “no.”

@cathotelier Most people aren't ill, with a disability, an ill son, and just had an operation..... And most people don't have a disability which effects how hard doing such stuff is for her severely on a day to day basis.

So if anyone judges you @serenities , including/especially your boyfriend, who's supposed to be on your team, they can bugger off. You know that you're doing what you can. So their words are actually pointless and to be completely disregarded, as you just can't do what they're saying.

@cathotelier

I may be playing devil’s advocate here, but anyway -

• if you were going away for Xmas (OP says she has been a guest at his family’s home), would you have left a messy kitchen to fester and await you on your return? I think, for most people, the answer would be, “no.”

• Sounds like her MIL and the DP’s family has been catering for OP and her son all Xmas. Supposing the MIL had decided it was too much bother to tidy up as she went - would that have made for a pleasant / relaxing stay for OP?

• If you were dating a man, but every time you went over there, there were dishes left out for days etc etc, would this be an attractive quality? Would you look forward to going over there? Would you find it disrespectful after a certain point? If you were to say something, would you be manipulative / gaslighting / abusive?

-

This is not devils advocate, its modern housewife from the 1950s

Would I leave my kitchen a tip, ever not just because I'm going away. No but how does this help OP? And why does a complete random to you persons kitchen matter to you?

The MiL, you seriously believe it's only the womens job to clean up? Wheres FiL? Does he do no cleaning despite living there? And if I'm staying a while in someone else's home I dont go around demanding they clean it, do you?

If I was dating a man who was as you state above, then I wouldnt be seeing him for long, but i wouldn't tell him to clean up at any time and i wouldnt do it for him and i simply wouldnt go over. Our values would be incompatible and that's the end of that relationship. Why would I want to cajole or persuade someone to clean their own house. I'm not their mother, I have enough to do in my own life without their issues too.

I totally understand the pint about having a chest infection snd her son having one too. Bit where does she say she had an ‘operation?’

In the OP, all she mentions is having a chest infection. Then, later (on some threads this would be termed a ‘drip feed’), she says she had a ‘procedure’ to both hips over the weekend. Given that the weekend was Christmas and she also says she was at her MILs for Christmas, I don’t get the impression she is recovering from a hip replacement.

She might have had minor surgery? Equally, her ‘procedure’ could have been a trip to a chiropractor or osteopath? The point stands - we don’t know! We don’t know what she means by ‘procedure.’ Nobody has asked But still, people are very quick to throw the ‘abuse’ word about.

Far more detail and context is needed.

No, far more detail isn’t needed. She has provided sufficient information, she has a messy but clean house, and wants to be able to live in it the way she chooses without a guest imposing his standards. You are the only person twisting her words and casting doubt on them. You should reflect and ask yourself why @cathotelier

Supposing the MIL had decided it was too much bother to tidy up as she went - would that have made for a pleasant / relaxing stay for OP?

And just suppose, @cathotelier, the MiL had a chest infection, a small child with a chest infection, a chronic illness & a very recent hip op?
Would you be berating her to about housework, or would you prefer that other people got off her case?

You seem to have some very odd priorities. What satisfaction is in it for you, harping on about OP's kitchen - which can't be in bad shape, as it was a 30 minute job to put straight?

And the chronic underlying health condition? Did you clock that too? Kind of pertinent, one would think. So, we have - chest infection (hers and son's) - procedure on both hips, exact type unknown, but an additional impact on her health and ability - and chronic health condition.

Yes, completely reasonable to pressure ask someone to clean up their kitchen, in their house, which was already reasonably clean, even if not immaculate, because their standards make this person twitchy, to try emotional blackmail to get them to do it, then to say that this was only done because he cares, and it's tough love, and finally to say they're coming over when they've been told repeatedly not to, and then to say that if they do come over, that if she doesn't let them in, having been told not to, that he'll break it off.

Totally acceptable and reasonable behaviour. Well, anyone that thinks that it is, I'm really glad they're not in either my life, or my house.

[quote cathotelier]“@cathotelier you're not playing devils advocate. You're playing 1950's housewife.
If he's not comfortable in her house he doesn't need to be there.”

It’s quite boring and way too predictable to just use ‘the 1950s’ MN trope (yawn).

The fact remains, nobody knows these people and it’s too premature to be calling ‘abuse.’ Even if you were their counsellor or therapist and had seen them both over a number of sessions, you would be careful before casually throwing such terminology about. All people have here is a few posts to go on.[/quote]
All people have here is a few posts to go on

We've all been reading the same posts as you. And unlike you, most of the rest of us all agree that the dp is a manipulative shit who is expecting her to do as she is told and clean her kitchen to his (as the OP says more than once) 'clean freak' standards, when both she and her dc are ill, and it is none of the dp's bloody business anyway, because he doesn't even live there.