to ask if you think a lot of women have really low standards?

[Merryoldgoat]

Just that.

YABU - no they don’t
YANBU - yes they do

I just feel so depressed reading some of these threads.

I’m not talking about women in abusive relationships who are struggling to escape; I mean women who are just putting up with shit for reasons that are beyond comprehension.

I agree. A lot of women struggle with the idea of being on their own. There are disadvantages to raising children on one salary. However, that was the path I've taken and I'm happier than I would ever have been with my ex. One of my friends has repeatedly been cheated on by her husband. The last affair was 18 months. She won't leave though because she's totally financially dependant on him and has never been with anyone else. 'Childhood sweethearts'. I wish she knew her worth.

[quote Tinylittlecabbages]@Merryoldgoat

No I am alone. But I can see why people would make the other choice because loneliness is awful. And I don't blame women for men's inadequacies. I blame men. [/quote]
But attributing blame isn't going to solve the problem. Arsehole men are not going to change their behaviour unless they have to. So long as there are women who are prepared to put up with them, there will be no reform. If these arsehole men found that they couldn't keep an in-house skivvy and living sex doll without treating her like a human being, an equal then they'd change their ways. Until the point that women collectively say 'no' there remains no incentive to change.

@llanfairfechan24

Every woman who ever had a relationship with Boris Johnson comes to mind as someone with low standards or low self-esteem.

Just reading through and was talking about this with DH the other day! About how he (so far) gets away with all sorts of stuff

About how bozza just always seems to bounce back. How he's been in public eye for yonks. How despite buffoon thing all the years, he's been in lucrative jobs for years, media. Then mayor of London, then PM!

Loads of wives affairs women generally. I mean he must have something. Impossible as it seems.

Yes successful, v rich, power etc.
But clearly a terrible bet as a partner.

All those women low self esteem?
Even if just horrible in a normal way, his money, power etc would i imagine be appealing to some in itself!

Public have loved/ loathed for years, always interested though.
We know he's incredibly intelligent, v lazy, selfish, self centred, buffoon thing is an act since young, expects to get a free ride, can't take criticism etc.

People like that can be vv charming. They are manipulative, very good at getting what they want from people.

So no. I think it's more likely that he behaves as narcissists are always described on here with women.

That's surely more likely than all his partners and there's been many! Having low self esteem...

Why believe all the women are damaged, rather than the man they have in common having something... (Fuck knows what but he's never tried to pull me!).

Just caught up and really surprised and pleased to see, and on aibu! It's not done the usual pretty much all comments having a pop art women! Even though late last night that was on the cards.

Threads like this are reflection of general society.
Something not good? Women to blame.
Let's dissect their failings and definitely not even consider the men involved.

Young women making money selling pics in undies etc. No self esteem, terrible example to girls etc.
The men looking/paying! Nothing to do with it.

Woman/girl attacked. Where was she what doihg there. After dark? Did she know him, just met him? Why no cab! Had she had a drink etc etc.
Man? Well some men will do this given chance. That's inevitable. Not even worth a thought. Women/girls must protect themselves by adhering to massive list.

Sexual harrassment at work?
Why did she put up with it? Tell him no? Report to HR? Foolish.

Etc etc

Same old same old.

@CheeseMmmm

Sorry but that’s not what this thread is and certainly not my position.

But I do think that when a woman ignores very obvious signs of a man being a twat at the beginning of a relationship she has low standards.

How dies that mean I think any of the repugnant views in your post?

My posting history is a few years old - I have never said anything like that because I don’t think it but I do think it’s stupid to get knowingly involved with a twat and then get surprised when he’s a twat.

This OP in AIBU?

if been here ages no way you didn't know what inviting.

Last night's posts were more the expected.

Might have look back re read your responses.

Most threads on here I've read, over the years loads, about shit men.
Vast majority have been men who were fine till kids.
Much less common to see I knew he was useless from first few dates, and overall those turn out the woman has various past experiences making her vulnerable.

Why are so many men behaving like this?

Is it simply because women are desperate fools?

Or could there be other things in society at play...?

I think some women have skewed priorities and think that having children is more important than anything else, and having a partner/husband is essential if you have or want kids. And so it goes.

Ddraig-

'But attributing blame isn't going to solve the problem. Arsehole men are not going to change their behaviour unless they have to. So long as there are women who are prepared to put up with them'

Are you sure?

Japan women saying sod that in significant numbers due to changes in opportunities prospects around work Vs cultural expectations when marry etc.

Japanese men (admittedly quick Google) seem to reacting by also reduced interest in partner, settle down etc.

China more men than women due to 1 child policy.
Like Japan a patriarchal society, and in cities etc women much better prospects opportunities work earning etc. (China massive obv so v different situations around the country).
Overall the huge difference in numbers between sexes age for getting together babies etc.
Results have included. Increases in-
Women being promised X from nearby countries, actually coming to be sold as brides.
Sex trafficking of women
Child marriage
In some areas kidnap young woman for bride
That sort of thing.

USA increase over years around women having opportunities prospects work earning. Independence.
Increase in women being cautious for number of reasons about who they date/ partner with etc.
And we have....
MRAs, incels, that stuff.
Utter hatred and rage at women as 'can't' get a date/shag etc.

And just realised. I'm sure in recent years increase in serious incidents men going out on violent/ murderous rampage, target is women.

So I'm not sure. It's a nice thought. I'm just not convinced.

What do you think to those things?

The increase globally around religious fundamentalism also, for the abrahamic ones I don't know about others.

A major theme is women being heavily controlled by men. Reason that some men from a long way away decide to go and join, is around promise of wife.

Etc.

Is it a given that men in general will step up full stop? I don't think so.

@CheeseMmmm

Ddraig-

'But attributing blame isn't going to solve the problem. Arsehole men are not going to change their behaviour unless they have to. So long as there are women who are prepared to put up with them'

Are you sure?

Japan women saying sod that in significant numbers due to changes in opportunities prospects around work Vs cultural expectations when marry etc.

Japanese men (admittedly quick Google) seem to reacting by also reduced interest in partner, settle down etc.

China more men than women due to 1 child policy.
Like Japan a patriarchal society, and in cities etc women much better prospects opportunities work earning etc. (China massive obv so v different situations around the country).
Overall the huge difference in numbers between sexes age for getting together babies etc.
Results have included. Increases in-
Women being promised X from nearby countries, actually coming to be sold as brides.
Sex trafficking of women
Child marriage
In some areas kidnap young woman for bride
That sort of thing.

USA increase over years around women having opportunities prospects work earning. Independence.
Increase in women being cautious for number of reasons about who they date/ partner with etc.
And we have....
MRAs, incels, that stuff.
Utter hatred and rage at women as 'can't' get a date/shag etc.

And just realised. I'm sure in recent years increase in serious incidents men going out on violent/ murderous rampage, target is women.

So I'm not sure. It's a nice thought. I'm just not convinced.

What do you think to those things?

Agree with this. There are so many creepy men about. To add, there are so many women out there (along with men) who victim blame, are rape and abuse apologists.

Well, it’s all relative, isin’t it?
What is low bar to who.
I was just readin, yet another, thread about porn and everyone on it are okey with it.
Personally to me, that is a low bar.
To watch it or be with someone who uses it.

Of course not all men are like that but reading posts on this site, there is an endless supply of decent women putting up with poor treatment from guys

It has been pointed out already but using this site as a barometer on the state of the nation's relationship health is not the best idea. People in happy, fulfilling relationships do not post on here stating that fact as they would end up being called goady. There are a few male dominated sites that I visit where like this place you get current affairs, politics, TV, fitness, careers etc and yes.,..relationships/divorce being discussed, if I only used those sites to form a general opinion on the behaviour of women it would a very negative indeed.

I think several things can be true at the same time. Men are incompetent and disrespectful and don’t consider that they should be equal partners or parents because society still pushes a patriarchal model of female homemakers and male breadwinners, for all the advances made there is still low uptake on shared parental leave or men dropping hours at work for childcare reasons.

Women are also conditioned by society into thinking this is normal and that that’s just men, etc. But it’s also true that you can’t absolve yourself of all agency and say ‘I had no choice, it’s all the patriarchy’s fault’. Someone, somewhere, has to make a stand to start changing things, and that goes for men and women. Men need to fight back against toxic stereotypes and say no, I should be stepping up and I will step up, and women need to put their foot down and not accept substandard treatment. Sadly the latter is more realistic than the former. Men have an easy ride so why would they change?

Among my friends I know several women who aren’t interested in getting married or cohabiting with their partner, several who don’t want kids. Unlike the poster on that depressing thread about being single who thinks single women are impoverished and lonely, it is absolutely possible for women to choose financial and emotional independence and be better off for it. But many women do still think a substandard relationship is better than no relationship at all. If enough women choose independence, in a couple of generations all the single men might start assessing what’s wrong with them as a class.