to ask if you think a lot of women have really low standards?

[Merryoldgoat]

Just that.

YABU - no they don’t
YANBU - yes they do

I just feel so depressed reading some of these threads.

I’m not talking about women in abusive relationships who are struggling to escape; I mean women who are just putting up with shit for reasons that are beyond comprehension.

I'm in a same sex relationship (female) and it's not perfect but my partner is amazing, don't know what I'd do without her. I know a few women who put up with so much crap from their husbands/boyfriends, and I do think why?!!! I just wouldn't personally.
Women can be just as bad though, from personal experience.

I think such a lot of the threads are made up, It seems one creative writer is attempting to outdo another creative writer.

People like company. Most people, that's men and women, have basically the best partner they can get right now.

I think the reality of being on your own (especially as a single parent) is harder than most people imagine, so it's easy to say oh I'd just them and br absolutely fine, but unless you've experienced that you have no idea really. The grass often isn't greener and people decide they'd rather put up with the bad bits of someone they know than be alone. Most relationships have lots of good stuff going on (husband paying for shopping / being good with childcare etc etc) and that's what keeps you hanging on, relationships are hardly ever bad all the time, but the 5% of time that they're being an arsehole it can ruin the whole thing!

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you're always getting one side of the story here.
It's possible that every relationship involves a woman acting completely reasonably, giving the relationship due care and attention, and a man responding to this with callous, uncaring behaviour, but it's unlikely.

women are routinely told to be grateful for even the most shit men.

I’ve found this with friends and family who’ve stayed single into their 30s and 40s. A lot of it comes from other women, particularly older generations of women, who think they should just settle for anyone to avoid being single

I remember my sister at 30 breaking up with a boyfriend after him lying and generally just being unreliable, and some female relatives being horrified as it ‘wasn’t like he beat her or anything’. It’s like they were so desperate for her not to be left on the shelf that they would see her stay with someone that made her unhappy rather than be alone. She obviously knows her worth thankfully and is now with a lovely man.

Yes I do.
For some women, any old pair of trousers is better than being seen to be single.

Maybe men should have higher standards for their own behaviour. It's not women's fault that men treat them like shit. They don't start off that way. Why can't men just
hold themselves to a high standard and not be selfish pricks.

Well there's a whole range of reasons.

And I think OP you'd agree that on here the vast majority of these threads children are in the mix.

Worry about how will cope financially.
What impact on children, better probably to wait until older before such a massive change. Emotional impact. Dad v good with them, they adore him etc.
Friction/ loss of relationships in-laws - DC's GPs, aunts, uncles, cousins etc.
Selling house/ finding somewhere else to rent, could end up miles away from DC schools, family, friends etc.
Judgement questions from family friends etc etc.
Downplaying as easier to follow easier route of very widely pushed ideas that are essentially excuses for rubbish men.
If work FT and you don't then obv he should relax when not at work.
Men's hobbies take them away family for whole days at weekend etc they need it for their mental well-being.
If he works and you don't then really it's his money, if you need more get a job.
Men are all essentially stuck as 17yo/ can't see dirt/ natural to ogle other women/ all watch porn, go lap dancing clubs hols with boys/ men need sex really you need to step up not fair on him/ maybe he's depressed, stressed, neuro diverse/ etc etc

And IME vv usual that

Women leave men when they really have had enough, generally after trying, seeing if get better etc

Men leave women when they have a different one to go to.

It's surely well known that women whether young or older or elderly are much more happy to live alone than men? I thought everyone knew that!

ONS 2015 article in paper about it-

In 25-29 age group 27% of men are living their parents, compared with 15% of women finds Office for National Statistics in UK-wide household survey
...
Among adults aged 20 to 24, 55% of men still live with their parents, against 42% of women. But by 25 to 29 the disparity has widened to 27%, compared with 15% for females, and then to 10% compared with 5% for those in the 30 to 34 age bracket.

@Pinkbonbon

Ironically, I think women cope far better being on their own than men do. So I don't understand why so many of them worry about it.

Financial reasons a lot of the time. A desire not to work or work only part-time. Someone to pay the bulk of the bills. I'm constantly amazed at what some women will put up with for that and say it for 'the sake of the children'.

Mumsnet is filled with women with lower than low standards when it comes to relationships

Who doesn't love a thread about women who are rubbish in some way...

Important observation, incomprehensible why they are being so useless, always important to point out that lots of women like me find it baffling as well!

It's good to get onto idle women who expect to have life of leisure financed by bloke. That's also an important thing to discuss.

So now the tone of the thread is set.

Can we talk about women who have children without bothering to do a comprehensive set of projections about any future situations and what that would mean financially? Plus check already have hefty pension pot? Have done the standard sums around paying for childcare Vs wage from lucrative high powered job?

Irresponsible, feckless, selfish. Obv.

I'm also interested in food banks and free school meals.

Given it's simple to create delicious balanced meals for family with lentils, rice, cabbages and tins of value beans. This is just grasping surely? Pure laziness.
Have they never heard of allotments? Farm shops are also good value.
Cut your cloth, made bed lie in it.

I think society seems to accept/expect less from men- as long as they are not actually abusive people will make excuses for shit behaviour. In my experience, it's also often not until a couple have children that manchild behaviour becomes apparent.

For example, I have a friend who gushes about how amazing her DH is- he is a relatively high earner and occasionally helps with the DC. Before children they both had hobbies, travelled, had a great social life etc. Since the DC he has continued to do exactly what he did before and if she wants to do anything she has to arrange child-care etc. They recently went on holiday with a group of friends and she came back exhausted as she looked after the DC all the time whilst he had a great time with his friends. She is expected to make sure the house is tidy and the DC are ready for bed before he gets home from work and even if he is not at work she does 100% of the cooking/cleaning etc (including hosting his family every Xmas for a week). Yet she, and most of our other friends, frequently say what a great Dad he is because he reads to the DC at bed time and takes them all on days out.

You came on here to boast about how great your relationship is and how high your standards are

Golf claps for you!

Many people get trapped in appalling relationships for a myriad of reasons.

The more illuminating question on this surely is-

Why do so many men think shoddy behaviour to partner is ok?

Yes. In real life and Mumsnet. It's tragic.

I agree with you.

Depressing to see what women put up with.

I think we're conditioned to believe that being with a man is a benchmark of success in life.

We need to let our daughters know that being single is infinitely better than being shackled to a disappointing man.

Yes. It’s probably a one sided view on mumsnet but I’m genuinely astonished and horrified by the things so many mumsnet posters are tolerating. There is a lot of really awful abuse, but also just so much shitty, low level neglect and unkindness. Men not doing their share of chores and childcare, men not putting any effort into buying gifts or celebrating events for their partners, men seeing their happiness as intrinsically more important than their partner’s, men seeing women as supporting characters, men prioritising themselves over their partners and children.

It makes me so grateful for my own lovely, fair-minded and generous husband, and so sad for the shit so many women are putting up with and accepting as normal.

@Christmaspuddingmayhem

The number of women who seem unable to be alone is really sad.

I wasn't 'unable to be alone' until my health deteriorated to the point where I literally, well, cannot manage alone. I had to face that reality and fucking hell was it scary.

I'm just incredibly lucky that my marriage is loving and mutually supportive. I'd be really fucked otherwise.

Sometimes women CANNOT manage alone. Becoming chronically ill or disabled can happen to anyone, at any time.

Physically not being able to manage is very different to not wanting to be alone and putting up with shite though isnt it?

Yes I agree. Just thinking about my close friends - women who are treated with indifference, women who have forgiven affairs, women who seem pathetically grateful to be in relationships with awful people who don't bring anything to their lives except a certain lifestyle.

I agree, but there are some men who put up with right bitches also.

I agree. I once knew a woman who couldn't leave her husband to do dinner for their son because he didn't know how to. I thought, oh she likes the kid to eat overly flamboyant stuff. Nope, he couldn't even boil water for pasta. Like, what? That to me is insane, he didn't do any housework either, they both worked full time. I just couldn't put up with that level of incompetency.

Honestly, I think a lot of women have low expectations from life. And a lot of men expect that of women too. And that cascades and ripples through society and becomes the norm.

We are still very much feeling the results of the way previous generations lived.

I’m early 40s. When I think about my friends mums, the vast majority had “little jobs” in bakeries, or shops, or cafes. Most were part time. Many never worked at all. That is the blueprint or the role model for many women today.

So of course we have this conflict between modern day relationships vs how to behave in them. Women were never expected to advocate for what they want. As a species we’re not so good at doing it, and men have no idea how to respond to it.

For me it comes down to equality. Women and their expectations are changing. But are men’s perceptions and expectations of woman changing at the same pace or in the same way? I don’t think so. The patriarchal bullshit will take generations to cut through.