Page 9 | 14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

Nat6999 · 23/12/2021 15:22

Ds is 17 & can't tie shoelaces or ride a bike, he has dyspraxia & hypotonia & is ASD. He is also hopeless with money. Buy hickies or elastic laces & the world won't end if he can't ride a bike, ds always had a scooter instead.

BogRollBOGOF · 23/12/2021 15:44

DS has diagnoses of ASD, dyslexia and dyspraxia and there are a lot of elements about the skills/ spiky profile that sound familiar.
Fortunately he was diagosed at 8-9 which helps self-esteem in understanding why so many "simple" things are easy when you can master "complex" things. Diagnosis was through the GP and took about 15m although waits may well have increased in the past couple of years.

There are lots of combinations of neurodiverse conditions that can occur together and often cause conflict. The perfectionism of ASD and "clumsyness" of dyspraxia for example must be very frustrating to live with.

Even just changing tack, understanding a ND mindset and tweaking parenting a bit can make a difference before a diagnosis.
DS and I laughed this morning as I stupidly said "do you want to brush your teeth?" realised my wording, both said "no" at the same time as of course he doesn't want to go through the sensory discomfort of brushing them. I then rephrased the request as an instruction and he did brush them.
Obviously a beligerent teenager is different to an 11yo (it was bad enough missing half of DS2's birthday party over the epic meltdown over DS1's teeth a few years ago) but understanding diffused a conflict and put humour in and got a better outcome than me getting cross over a literal ASD answer to a badly worded polite request and him getting upset over an honest answer.

Fendidntdrake · 23/12/2021 15:49

Sounds like dyspraxia

indecisivewoman81 · 23/12/2021 15:55

This sounds more like a learning difficulty to me and is surprisingly more common than you imagine.

After Christmas I would speak to the school and their SENCO

ddl1 · 23/12/2021 16:08

In combination, these things could suggest that he is neurodivergent in some way: dyspraxia? ASD? ADHD? He may do the 'I don't care' act about the things that he can't do, because he feels defensive and humiliated about them. I would suggest that you get him tested by an educational psychologist or similar.

None of this could explain, let alone excuse, his stealing. Has the gaming become a serious addiction? If so, he needs professional help. If you try to restrict or stop his gaming, when he is truly addicted, he will almost certainly find another source.

IAmMeThisIsI · 23/12/2021 16:15

What's happening here is the child is spending way too much time online and is listening to older men who have no life and arrogantly believe they're better than everyone else. It sounds like he's been talking to men (and other teens) from 4chan, Reddit etc. They'll be making memes about how "boomers" don't understand children of the digital age.

You may have to do a complete rehaul of his life. First step, a digital detox. Let him EARN his time online by doing tasks like brushing his (godarn!) teeth and showering!

Tell him he won't be allowed to have access to his games until you see him learn how to tie up his laces. And the reason he cannot tell the time is because he's used to looking at a digital clock and not a clock face. He can earn an extra hour online per day if he actively learns how to tell the time.

At first prepare for extreme resistance. But he will listen eventually. Sometimes kids look for and want discipline and boundaries. I remember wanting to be grounded by my mother and playing HELL to make it happen. She didn't bother discipling me and I got into some SERIOUS trouble which affected my entire life due to her lack of boundaries.

LondonWolf · 23/12/2021 16:34

@IAmMeThisIsI

What's happening here is the child is spending way too much time online and is listening to older men who have no life and arrogantly believe they're better than everyone else. It sounds like he's been talking to men (and other teens) from 4chan, Reddit etc. They'll be making memes about how "boomers" don't understand children of the digital age.

You may have to do a complete rehaul of his life. First step, a digital detox. Let him EARN his time online by doing tasks like brushing his (godarn!) teeth and showering!

Tell him he won't be allowed to have access to his games until you see him learn how to tie up his laces. And the reason he cannot tell the time is because he's used to looking at a digital clock and not a clock face. He can earn an extra hour online per day if he actively learns how to tell the time.

At first prepare for extreme resistance. But he will listen eventually. Sometimes kids look for and want discipline and boundaries. I remember wanting to be grounded by my mother and playing HELL to make it happen. She didn't bother discipling me and I got into some SERIOUS trouble which affected my entire life due to her lack of boundaries.

Ignore this

Fleetheart · 23/12/2021 16:54

I second ignoring this

KaranLeslie · 23/12/2021 17:02

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TeenMinusTests · 23/12/2021 17:03

@Fleetheart

I second ignoring this

I third ignoring it.

We have analogue clocks all round the house. Despite a lot of effort over the years, my 17yo still can't really tell the time. Nor can she reliably tell left from right, or walk down the stairs alternately.

CustardCreamsAndMintTea · 23/12/2021 17:06

Its dyspraxia (usually couple with something else) my dyspraxic kids can do these things now, but its been a huge huge amount of effort compared to their friends. Some things we gave up on, but only if we mutually agreed they wouldn't feel bad about it. It can be embarrassing not being able to tie your own shoes, so they have persevered. Other things, not so much.

Ted27 · 23/12/2021 17:36

My son has ASD, can't tie shoelaces, it's not the end of the world.

If he can tell the time using a digital clock he can tell the time - we live in a digital age. Even I have a watch with a digital face.
I'm 56, I can't ride a bike, it's not essential to life.
Way too much online diagnosing going on here on way too little information

Original poster

13yearslater · 23/12/2021 18:33

Thanks for all your input.
I have tried sooooo many strategies. It's exhausting and depressing.

My close friend even took him for a week in the summer holidays last year as communication had once again totally broken down. She says he behaved very well - helped around the house, was polite, got on ok with her two kids (similar age - they all know each other well). He showered and brushed his teeth when asked. She chatted with him at length and he seemed to see the light - the effect his total disinterest in doing simple jobs like teeth, hanging up his uniform after school, clean pants each day, do your homework on time etc...
I was so grateful to her and he was much better. For about three days. Then he returned to 'normal.' My friend felt humiliated and used by him. I know how she felt.

In some ways he scares me: maybe he IS just a carbon copy of his NPD father; if so, when he's out of my care I will need to walk away as I cannot go through that level of stress and upset again.

For now, I have removed his xbox.

I will talk to his school in the new year.

Thank you again.

OP posts:

Original poster

13yearslater · 23/12/2021 18:44

PS his father was a thief and a spender too: he blew any money he had immediately. Before we met, he had CCJs for not paying his mortgage or bills even though he had inherited a large sum of money. He bought a fancy car and expensive wines instead. His credit record was so shot to pieces he wasn't even allowed a chequebook or overdraft.
Of course he was charming and I believed his lies. I tried so many strategies to help him, as I believed him, when he said everything was someone else's fault and he was the victim.
The mask slipped totally when the baby was born. He realised my good wage would have to be spent on our son.
He emptied our savings and bank accounts and left.
Without a backward glance.
i have raised our son completely alone since that day.
I love my son to pieces.
But I don't like him very much right now. Again.

OP posts:

takenforgrantednana · 23/12/2021 19:01

@13yearslater

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

what a whole load of total rubbish! put as many labels on the lad as you want but one thing will never change what he is actually doing, that being he has learnt the art of winding his parent up any which way he can!

so you as the parent have the power to sort this out for good, remove everything from his room, make him earn these things back, that means he has to get off his arse and do something for someone elses benefit, then he might get 1 hrs games console use back, you then set a timer and then the power goes off in that room. he can kick off as much as he wants, you dont react to any of it. other than make a list of "chores" with the value of them on it.

you set a full list of house rules with the consequences on it for failure.

all this should have been done years back when he was around 5 yrs old, but if your consistant it will work now he is 14

Kanaloa · 23/12/2021 19:11

I agree with ignoring forcing him to tell the time/tie shoelaces for privileges but I would have no problem denying Xbox time until basic hygiene was taken care of and would ignore his suggestions that it was abusive.

Brushing your teeth and showering are non negotiable not only for your own self care but out of respect for others. It’s important to be clean.

Although it does sound like op at this point needs actual help from unbiased professionals - having your friends ‘sit down’ with him and tell him he’s lazy etc is going to make it worse. Of course they’re on you’re side, they’re your friends. It’s really not appropriate intervention for you to have your friend sit down next to you to hang up on the child.

LondonWolf · 23/12/2021 19:23

It is very clear that some posters have no experience whatsoever of certain additional needs namely ADHD/Autism/Dyspraxia and other spectrum conditions, which affect some people their whole lives and if they’re not addressed at a young age - and 14 is not too late - then they will impact on their ability to function in and meet the expectations of society.

For example I know a man with undiagnosed ADHD, also possibly autism. He is a compulsive gambler, alcoholic and has all but abandoned his children. He was “abusive” to his wife and he is unable to keep a job. He lives on benefits and handouts from family and whatever he can “win”. His family were strict disciplinarians and he masked his additional needs through sheer terror of them and then exploded as soon as he was out from under their watch. This is what happens when these children go undiagnosed. They cannot read the cues or communicate in the way that other NT people might. They cannot learn in the same way - hence the term learning difficulties. Back in the day they ended up in “remedial” classes, moved on to lives of petty crime, young offenders institutes and then jail. It is believed that significant number of people in prison are there as a result of anti social behaviour driven by undiagnosed spectrum issues.

If you’ve nothing sensible to say and think it’s appropriate to keep hectoring then OP about her supposed poor parenting then you should know that many on this thread are shaking their heads at your ignorance. You’re not Telling It Like It Is, you’re embarrassing yourselves.

Original poster

13yearslater · 23/12/2021 19:40

My gut feelings agree with takenforgrantednana - but that seems churlish when posters have kindly posted about similarities with their autism experiences.

OP posts:

takenforgrantednana · 23/12/2021 19:57

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Roundeartheratchriatmas · 23/12/2021 19:57

Perhaps it might be worth at least looking into why he can’t do basic things like tie his shoes rather than assume he’s naughty ?

It’s not to say ALL of his behaviour is due to that but frustrating and inability to communicate his needs could certainly be a factor.

ExtraOnion · 23/12/2021 20:04

@13yearslater

My gut feelings agree with takenforgrantednana - but that seems churlish when posters have kindly posted about similarities with their autism experiences.

If you do think that this is about your ability to parent him, rather than him having additional needs and being in the spectrum .. then what harm is done from talking to the GP / SENCO / CAMHS. At best, you viewpoint will be confirmed, at worst (and I don’t think it worst) will be that he is found to be on the spectrum.

If he is on the spectrum, and you are trying to use “traditional” parenting methods, then both you and him are going to have a miserable experience. The things you doing aren’t working now, so I have no idea how you think it’s going to work in the future - shout a bit louder ??? Remove more things ? Where does that end.

There are a number of people posting who clearly have zero experience of parenting a child with ASD …. All of this removing stuff, will not work.

You seem very reluctant to think that it could be ASD or ADHD, I’m unsure about why you are so unwilling to explore it.

Prisons are full of undiagnosed people, it’s tragic

LondonWolf · 23/12/2021 20:04

@13yearslater

My gut feelings agree with takenforgrantednana - but that seems churlish when posters have kindly posted about similarities with their autism experiences.

Do you think it’s coincidence that your son is beginning to display similar behaviour patterns to his father despite never having lived with or known him. Spectrum conditions are believed to have a genetic component in many cases.

Oh and stop getting your friends to guilt him or tantrum at his behaviour. Can’t believe I just read that.

LondonWolf · 23/12/2021 20:04

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Original poster

13yearslater · 23/12/2021 20:05

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

Perhaps it might be worth at least looking into why he can’t do basic things like tie his shoes rather than assume he’s naughty ?

It’s not to say ALL of his behaviour is due to that but frustrating and inability to communicate his needs could certainly be a factor.

He WONT do shoelaces. There's a difference. He is very dexterous on his iphone and xbox after all. If he doesn't want to do something, he just doesn't. And I have nowhere to go with that as a lone parent with zero support. I can't say 'your dad won't be pleased' or 'grandad wants to have a stern talk with you' - though I did a couple of times before my dad got dementia but son was bored by him and made vague promises.

I have just demanded that son gives me the passcode for his iphone. He absolutely will not. He refuses. He says he 'doesn't trust me.' Wtaf? I pay the bill, your are only 14, I need to monitor what your are doing online'....he just says no. It's a big fat no. He's eating a chicken sandwich with his yellow teeth in his filthy room.

OP posts:

Gilead · 23/12/2021 20:06

I’m autistic, it wasn’t intended to be unhelpful, but I do think that OP is being bullied by her child: ‘ He knows his rights’. He’ll tell the school. This is bullying and manipulation.
The point I was trying to make was no point online suggesting ASC et Al, until other avenues have been checked.,