14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

[13yearslater]

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

The hygiene thing could be sensory, my Ds doesn’t clean his teeth becuase he hates the minty smell and taste
He does shower because he likes the sensory feel of the water, he doesn’t use soap however and just sits in the base of the shower and has a hot waterfall flow over him 3 or 4 times a day.

Sounds like dd(18) except the showering and teeth brushing as she is obsessive about these. All she wants to do all day is game. She can tie her shoelaces but it took a while and it's not easy for her. She struggles to tell the time on a clock (prefers using her phone). She is absolutely terrible with money. She is smart though and passed all her GCSEs and is at college. She is autistic but quite recently diagnosed. I'd seek a referral from your GP for an assessment if I were you.

This sounds complex but I have a couple of suggestions for the ‘lesser’ aspects.
Teeth brushing - I had a refuser, so i refused to buy anything sugary at all, no juice, no biscuits, no deserts, sweets or chocolate, until he started to brush regularly. I meant it and did it. This was the hill I was prepared to die on. It may seem harsh but I pointed out every single time that his breath smelled, his teeth were yellow and talked about gum disease and tooth loss. He didn’t like this at all, but it started to get through to him. I showed him pictures of bad teeth. Eventually he improved. He still won’t brush at night, but once a day is a huge improvement.
Thé money- how is he getting his money? My DS burned through £400 On online gaming after changing the settings so I didn’t get notified. I diverted his spending money into another account he couldn’t access until he had ‘repaid’ himself. I now do random checks on his bank account with him. These things are designed to be addictive and gambling so I police that with him, and have a certain amount if sympathy, but he needs to learn to regulate himself.

He doesn't leave the house unless there's something in it for him. He hates being seen by other school kids outside of school. His teeth are yellow. He refuses to have his hair cut short because he says it looks common. He will go straight to his head of year to complain if he thinks a teacher has treated him unfairly. He knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. He blew nearly 400 quid on my debit card on gaming and said he thought I wouldn't notice. He had no idea he was performing in a school concert because 'nobody emailed to tell me'
He organised a cinema trip with mates but had no money to go (because he blows his money as soon as he gets any) so took 20 quid out of my piggy bank (I put spare change in it) said he would absolutely not spend it all - then spent it all in an arcade.
I'm fed up. Its Christmas in two days and we are at the point of no return. Again. But he bangs on and on about what presents he's going to get.
I have no idea what to do anymore. I work hard, I set him good examples, my friends say I am a great mum and try to advise me - they talk to him when we go through these cycles. But it always hits rock bottom again.

Sounds a lot like my son apart from the stealing - diagnosed with ASD and dyspraxia. Predicted all 8's and 9's in his GCSE's. He can just about ride a bike and tie shoe laces but only because I put a lot of time and effort into teaching him when he was still young enough to want to learn at around 8.
Not being able to tell the time on a clock is surprisingly normal now, I work in a secondary school and teens use their phones so see no need to be able to tell the time. It's another thing mine can just about do due to a lot of input when he was younger, he'd still rather just ask me though.

Does he know that its unlikely he would get a foster parent? If he went into the system he'd end up in a 'home'. Is it worthwhile involving social services for their advice? Would be great if he seen the reality of foster care..... have you spoke to achool. They will have a lead pastoral care person who needs to be aware of what going on.

Stealing is an issue independent of ASD, but otherwise everything else sounds like my DD, who was so good at faking everything that she wasn't diagnosed till nearly 17, by which time her MH issues were getting a bit epic. We still have a running battle with her on the teeth cleaning front and she's rising 20 now, but she too will just sit in the shower, sometimes multiple times in a day

I know a lot of things are ascribed to ASD and it can beggar other people's belief, but it will be much better for you both to get it checked: be prepared for a fight though. One of the main reasons for a late diagnosis will be he's "high functioning", but school is MUCH more draining in KS4 than it was in primary, and even more than KS3. You will almost certainly need some help for him in school to mitigate this, which will then make it easier for him to do other things.

She also has diagnoses of ADHD and PDA. You are FAR better off knowing if any of this relates to your son, if only because it will help your relationship.

He sounds like a standard neurodiverse 14 yr old boy. I have one myself (except 16). They can be very difficult to parent and cause a lot of stress in the family. My son is bright and doing well at school. He has elastic laces in his shoes.
Things which are not necessarily neurodiverse are the fact that he won’t shower and that he spends his money on silly stuff. That’s quite normal for his age group. (I’m a teacher).
I think you need to focus on building a positive relationship with him. He’s only a kid and if he is neurodiverse then his emotional age is 2/3 of his actual age.

From what you are all saying it sounds like PDA is in there somewhere. I hadn't heard of this until now.
If it's of any relevance, his father (Exh) had NPD and disappeared off the radar when he was a baby. I desperately don't want him to have NPD too but it can be inherited and there is no cure.

@13yearslater

He doesn't leave the house unless there's something in it for him. He hates being seen by other school kids outside of school. His teeth are yellow. He refuses to have his hair cut short because he says it looks common. He will go straight to his head of year to complain if he thinks a teacher has treated him unfairly. He knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. He blew nearly 400 quid on my debit card on gaming and said he thought I wouldn't notice. He had no idea he was performing in a school concert because 'nobody emailed to tell me' He organised a cinema trip with mates but had no money to go (because he blows his money as soon as he gets any) so took 20 quid out of my piggy bank (I put spare change in it) said he would absolutely not spend it all - then spent it all in an arcade. I'm fed up. Its Christmas in two days and we are at the point of no return. Again. But he bangs on and on about what presents he's going to get. I have no idea what to do anymore. I work hard, I set him good examples, my friends say I am a great mum and try to advise me - they talk to him when we go through these cycles. But it always hits rock bottom again.

Sounds very much like ASD, not wanting to leave the house, not liking being seen by other kids from school - same as my son. He probably hates having his hair cut - mine too. Everything you say has ASD written all over it IMO. He will be immature, he will be very clever in some ways and clueless in others, he will have social issues, how he looks/smells etc won't be important to him as he won't appreciate the impact on others or social expectations.

He needs a lot of patience, understanding and parenting. No doubt he thinks he knows it all because he's very clever but he actually needs a lot of support and things that are obvious to you need explaining to him in detail to help him understand. He probably has quite black and white thinking.

@LeopardPrintTits

Shouldn’t you have taught him how to do most of those things? And also taught him how to be financially responsible and not to steal?

YABU

Yes because mothers are to blame for everything and teenagers never do anything except what their parents have taught them 🙄🙄🙄🙄

@13yearslater

From what you are all saying it sounds like PDA is in there somewhere. I hadn't heard of this until now. If it's of any relevance, his father (Exh) had NPD and disappeared off the radar when he was a baby. I desperately don't want him to have NPD too but it can be inherited and there is no cure.

I don't think PDA at all. If he had PDA he wouldn't be good at school as he would never want to do anything they asked due to huge anxiety. PDA is all about anxiety. To me it ticks all the boxes for ASD and dyspraxia. I once read that NPD is one stop on the train before ASD.

Hi OP, I think you got a bit of a hard time on this thread last night.

He does sound neurodiverse and I think you need help. I think you also sound very down and the way you initially came across lead to lots of rather unhelpful answers. I think you need to make a note of it all, all of it. All his behaviours that worry you. Talk to school and your GP. With a diagnosis you can get help and understand him better.

Get over to the Special needs board, there will be much more knowledgeable posters on there who can guide you through what you need to do.

You said he doesn't have learning difficulties. Do you realise it is possible to be of normal or even higher intelligence and still have specific learning difficulties, such as you have described?

In your shoes I'd be doing lots of finding out and considering if a private assessment was financially possible (good investment in his health and future potential) as the NHS waiting lists are awful and hard to access. Time is of the essence here.

Just because he's doing well at school doesnt mean that there's not something else going on. I'm 26 years old and still can't tie my laces properly, read an analogue clock well (it takes me a while) and can barely ride a bike myself. 14 year olds are not known for being responsible with money. The showering/not brushing teeth could be sensory issues. Obviously the stealing is bad but not social services bad!

Because I was doing so well in other areas, I was embarrassed about those two things.
Maybe he feels the same way

Echoing @Honeymint almost word for word here. I was a straight A student who funnily enough also couldn’t tie shoelaces, ride a bike or read analogue clocks! I think everyone just presumed I’d know how to do those things as I was generally advanced from a young age so nobody bothered teaching me and I felt silly asking. I remember my maths teacher being so confused when I admitted at 17 I didn’t know how to use a protractor because I’d been getting straight As in Maths the whole time. As for the bike thing, I just really wasn’t interested and I think that’s fine. Still can’t ride one now.

Don’t dismiss the neurodiverse comments as they may well be worth pursuing - you know your son and should admit to yourself if you feel neurodiversity may be the answer because as PPs have said there’s nothing wrong with that.

But what I’m trying to say is he might just be a difficult teenager. As I’ve said above, I didn’t know how to do loads of stuff as a teenager which surprised people. I also did loads of things which I think are dead weird and cannot comprehend myself now as an adult woman. For example, I had an issue with wearing sanitary protection and often neglected my personal hygiene because I didn’t want to change it. Did lots of lying to my mum and drinking alcohol from a young age. Hated eating most foods. Had various obsessions. Some of these things might suggest neurodiversity for some people but I was just being a teenager. They literally all seemed to just vanish as I got older and by the time I was at university I was literally the most boringly normal bog standard person you can imagine (and still am - sometimes ashamed to admit how not quirky or unusual I am!)

Sending you a hug OP you sound done in

A child can do well at school and have an SEN and hide it if they are clever. I'm saying this with children with ADHD and other learning difficulties picked up post 16. The not being able to tell the time on an analogue clock and shoe lace issues point to this, as does impulsive behaviour such as blowing money on games. Often ADHD goes hand in hand with being on the autistic spectrum or having features of autism. Dyspraxia may be behind the shoes laces, bike riding and analogue clock issue. He needs to be assessed! Some of his behaviour may be linked to frustration.

My foster son with learning disability and attends a special school can't tie his shoe laces. He is 15 and it took him until he was 11 to get his left shoe on left foot every time. We just get him velcro or slip on shoes. You need to ask your child's school if he needs an assessment of learning needs undertaking. Why do you allow him do much gaming time? Why don't you limit gaming to after his shower and teeth clean? A few days with no gaming might make him want to shower and clean his teeth. Be the parent and stop letting him defy you. When my foster son has done his homework, recycling chore he can go on games but if he refused to shower it would only be after a shower. Take back control.

Talk to your GP. It really does sound like it could be ASD and dyspraxia. Once you have a confirmed diagnosis you will be able to move forward in a more proactive way. I say this from experience. I wish you all the best, I know it’s tough.

I agree with what others have said. I'm autistic with autistic children and he sounds autistic to me, perhaps with other neurodiversities too.

Please get him assessed. And also stop judging him! I reacted to move out of home too and it was because no one understood me and there was so much pressure to be someone I couldn't be (I wasn't diagnosed till adulthood).

Please look into gentle parenting and other parenting strategies.

I'm in a great Facebook group called Gentle parenting for autistic children UK and if you post there I think you'll get some helpful advice. Even if you think your son isn't autistic the techniques would be useful. You can post anonymously on there.

As someone who has worked as an LSA with teenagers for many years. I think your son shows many signs of being ND and you need to get him assessed. Many of the young people I have worked with are highly intelligent and academic but struggle with everyday tasks and emotions. Unfortunately getting help will be hard, first step talk to the school and your GP and start the ball rolling.

Don't let him have the money....put into an account

The rest sounds lazy / teenagerish maybe

Is there a family member who could talk to him about the personal hygiene issue ?
Shoelaces is odd....but not worth a fight
What's he like at school ?

I think it sounds like he probably has SEN.
Have you spoken to school or GP?
From what you have said I think he may have dyspraxia and possibly ASD or ADHD.
If he has additional needs I think yabu to expect him to do these things that a neuro typical teen would be able to do. So you really need to see if school and GP can signpost you to getting him correct support and diagnostic assessment.