14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

[13yearslater]

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

He's not depressed, in case anyone suggests that. He's no doubt feeling abused. He'll be ringing Childline in a minute. Again.

He WONT do shoelaces. There's a difference. He is very dexterous on his iphone and xbox after all

My 18 year old can play on the PS4 and use his phone but can’t eat with a knife and fork and only started being able to write this year!

Everything you post about him is screaming additional needs of some kind but you will not hear it. What a waste of everyone’s time.

@LondonWolf

He WONT do shoelaces. There's a difference. He is very dexterous on his iphone and xbox after all

My 18 year old can play on the PS4 and use his phone but can’t eat with a knife and fork and only started being able to write this year!

Everything you post about him is screaming additional needs of some kind but you will not hear it. What a waste of everyone’s time.

I am defo going to meet with his school senco in January and see if they can help.

I am listening. But I'm not convinced it's AD. The school have no issues with him as far as I am aware - he has had 100% attendance and cards home for various achievements. r

Right now, tonight, I wish he would achieve the washing up rather than just keep chucking more dirty knives, spoons, cereal bowls into it, then staring at me with that defiant bored look when I ask him to do it.

@13yearslater

He's not depressed, in case anyone suggests that. He's no doubt feeling abused. He'll be ringing Childline in a minute. Again.

What are you going to do about it? Any of it? What is your plan and do you have any support?

The shoelaces and not being able to read an analogue clock don’t really matter. He can wear slip on/zip up shoes or get elastic laces instead, and he can rely on digital clocks. If he ever wants to learn either of those skills, he’ll put in the effort and do it. Drop the rope on this one. He knows you’ll happily teach him if he asks. He’ll probably just learn off YouTube at some point.
The teeth cleaning is a problem. Worth a dentist/dental nurse appointment to try to get to get to the bottom of it. Maybe a different toothpaste. Maybe an electric toothbrush rather than a manual one (or vice versa) and he definitely needs a better appreciation of why tooth brushing matters.
Not showering is gross but unlikely to cause harm in the way neglecting your teeth can. How often would he shower without reminders? As long as it’s more frequent than once a week I’d probably leave him to it. And air out the house frequently.
The thieving is unacceptable. Does he get an allowance? All stolen money gets taken back from his allowance, with interest.

You could be writing about my dyspraxic teen. It’s not just motor skills. There is a whole heap of other social/ communication/ sensory stuff too.
Dyspraxia is probably the neuro condition with the least awareness and often slips through the net at school.
Have a look at the dyspraxia foundation website.

@Changelingbutonlyforme

The shoelaces and not being able to read an analogue clock don’t really matter. He can wear slip on/zip up shoes or get elastic laces instead, and he can rely on digital clocks. If he ever wants to learn either of those skills, he’ll put in the effort and do it. Drop the rope on this one. He knows you’ll happily teach him if he asks. He’ll probably just learn off YouTube at some point. The teeth cleaning is a problem. Worth a dentist/dental nurse appointment to try to get to get to the bottom of it. Maybe a different toothpaste. Maybe an electric toothbrush rather than a manual one (or vice versa) and he definitely needs a better appreciation of why tooth brushing matters. Not showering is gross but unlikely to cause harm in the way neglecting your teeth can. How often would he shower without reminders? As long as it’s more frequent than once a week I’d probably leave him to it. And air out the house frequently. The thieving is unacceptable. Does he get an allowance? All stolen money gets taken back from his allowance, with interest.

Ok here goes: He has velcro shoes for school from Clarkes. He has velcro trainers. He doesn't want shoelaces. He relies on his mobile for telling the time. He has three watches bought over the last few xmases and birthdays but he won't wear a watch. I've accepted that, though am cross it takes him several minutes to read a clock face. He has no interest in learning from youtube about clocks or shoelaces. I suggested it years ago. He doesn't see the point. Teeth cleaning: nightmare. Going to take him to a dental hygienist after christmas as they are disgusting. I do ask him too inspect them in a mirror for himself when they're especially bad and he does, but he shrugs. He would never shower if I didn't make him. He currently hasn't had a shower for 7 days. He will if I offer him something in return - an extra half hour til bedtime, some money etc. He smells but won't wear deodorant. He gets angry with me when I tell him he is smelly. I smoke and he says 'you stink of fags. I don't complain about that.' Hes probably right but maybe I'd cut down on the fags if he wasn't so difficult. He has an allowance of 15 pounds a month. But he spends 11 of it on his monthly xbox pass. I buy him everything he needs and am aware that he only has four pounds a month left after his pass. But he has been offered so many chances at earning a bit of money himself - I was paying him to do jobs but he ratchets up the price then just stops doing them. So that always falls apart. He has stolen quite a lot of money from me in the past. He's apparently sorry for a few days but then over it. He can't earn big chunks of money doing jobs to pay me back because I can't bloody afford it!

But that’s the thing people are suggesting you seek extra support for.

Say he has an additional need. You need to seek support so he can get help and you can understand that need.

Say he’s just very badly behaved and does all this on purpose. You need to seek support because you’re not able to fix it/parent him.

Either way he needs to be helped and so do you.

And if he will shower/brush his teeth etc when you offer him something then how are you not able to remove Xbox until he has done it then give it back? Clearly he’s capable when he stands to gain something so why aren’t you ensuring that he does these things?

It just feels a bit like you’d rather bury your head in the sand and not have to deal with it/insist that he’s just xyz.

And as for the cash if he’s frequently stealing large amounts of money from you I’d firstly ensure the access was stopped with locks on your door or a drawer and no cash left out then tell him that because it’s a crime and he’s old enough to know better you will be contacting the police if he attempts to steal a large amount of money from you again.

You just feel so passive in all this - like you’re trying to erase your agency and power in this relationship.

I've read all your posts and many of the replies.

Asd also screamed out at me (my ds has asd).

There's so many different aspects of the autistic mind and sometimes such things as shoelaces and time reading just don't figure as important so they don't learn the skill. Sometimes they just can't do it. My 17yo ds cannot tie shoelaces, struggles with cutlery but can game like a professional!

But the main one for me that indicates the asd is his lack of empathy and lack of seeing things from someone else's POV.
The complaining if he feels injustice in school or unfairly treated.
And also the arguing the toss! But things like him not thinking you'd notice the money missing. An absolute inability to put himself in your shoes. And an inability to empathise why when you did find out you are upset and it matters. The not realising why money matters is part of poor executive function that goes alongside asd.

And all this going quiet is likely an inability to express himself and engage in emotional conversation, and thinking elsewhere will be different and just moving is part of the lack of emotional connection that can be part of asd.

The difficulty with asd is it's a spectrum and people don't have every "symptom" and behaviour - and even those that share thought processes don't express or demonstrate or react on the same way.

Starting with school senco is a good idea. But have a clear set of questions you want to ask them about how he reacts in certain situations.

Good luck - I'm also a LP. It's exhausting

Aspergers

Everything you’ve said suggests to me a neurodivergence. Something like dyspraxia which isn’t a learning disability. I met a man in his 30s who can do the most amazing complex gymnastics &parkour but he cannot tie his shoelaces. He can drive a car but his writing is illegible. There’s no rhyme or reason to it, it just is and it’s embarrassing for him to get to a certain age and not be able to do basic things expected of him, made worse (unintentionally) by being accused of being lazy or incompetent or whatever. If you consider the likes of dyspraxia and even autism in terms of difficulty with processing everything in the brain rather than the over used social and communication disorder or as a gp described it clinical clumsiness (!) tropes then maybe it becomes a bit easier to understand. The brainpower involved in doing what appears like an instinctive or simple thing can just be too much and so we refuse because it’s easier to deal with the results of refusal than the results of overwhelm in the brain.

@Kanaloa

And as for the cash if he’s frequently stealing large amounts of money from you I’d firstly ensure the access was stopped with locks on your door or a drawer and no cash left out then tell him that because it’s a crime and he’s old enough to know better you will be contacting the police if he attempts to steal a large amount of money from you again.

You just feel so passive in all this - like you’re trying to erase your agency and power in this relationship.

done all that.

I don’t understand you. Why are you so adamant that he’s just bad? The comparison with his terrible father - hope you never say that to him. You sound like you’ve completely given up on him and spend much of your time slagging him off to your mates. You’re doing it here - completely resistant to any alternative that isn’t him being a selfish, dirty, defiant thief. Where is your love and loyalty to your child? He’s only 14, it’s not like you’ve had decades of terrible behaviour to cope with. I’m a lone parent too. I know how hard it is. My son has multiple diagnoses, I get it, I do but I can’t imagine ever coming on social media to slag him off and rail to strangers about what a horrible person he is.

In what capacity?
Psychologist.

ok dont pay the bill! they will soon disconnect it then what is he going to do?

You need to sort yourself out and get your authority back. Take the phone once he's a sleep. Take the Xbox. Tell him he can earn it back by practising basic hygiene every day. Wearing deodorant. Stop his pocket money for starters.

Why haven't you done this already?

WHY are you just allowing him to "tell you no"??

You're his mum are you not?

The difficulties you have described sound like an undiagnosed neurodiverse teenager who isn't being supported in the way that would actually help him to address these problems.

You sound very confrontational - telling, demanding and criticising.
None of those will help him, they will lead to the behaviour that you are currently seeing.
Punishment will not make him want to brush his teeth or shower, it's more likely to cause more conflict.

When you are able to see him as a child who lacks important skills and needs help, rather than a lazy, good-for-nothing boy, then you might be able to learn how to work alongside him to help him with his problems.

Bear in mind that many of the responses from posters telling you that you need to be stricter and punish him for not doing what you want him to do, have no experience of living with a child like yours. They have no idea what they are talking about.

Listen to the parents who recognise your experience and have worked or are working through it successfully using a much more nurturing and cooperative approach.

oh really? i have 40 years of it actually, and no matter what the label is for the person it has got to start somewhere and its the basics, its not punishment, its encouragement, its a way of getting him to focus better, you dont need to bribe him with hard cash, make it so its time he is working for, and reward an activity appropriately

Has he tried an electric toothbrush? It’s easier to use than a manual brush. I’m 51, with “high functioning” autism and (diagnosed) and dyspraxia. Changing the WiFi password daily and not giving it out until shower and toothbrushing have taken place might also help.

The stealing is by far the worse problem.

If he steals from you, you cancel his allowance. Do not leave money lying around the house. You put a STRONG password on the router, and take the cable upstairs with you at night,along with your handbag. Frankly I would throw his bloody xbox in the bin, but that's a nuclear step.

He may have ASD, or he may just be a nasty little arsehole. He may be both. Unfortunately you have to deal with either situation. Ask for a CAMHS referral, maybe school will support you as they must have noticed that he is dirty and frankly unusual.

Sounds like textbook autism / Adhd. Also kids can be very bright and academic and be neurodiverse.

All the best