14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

[13yearslater]

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

I don't know what's wrong with your son, but it sounds horrendous to live with and I'm not surprised you're sick of it. Sending hugs.

I can almost guarantee he has dyspraxia. My son does, it doesn’t affect academic performance as such but it does affect organisation. Typical signs are coordination difficulties ie riding a bike, doing your shoelaces, just like your son.

I do think you need to at least read about dyspraxia, because I know once my son was diagnosed his self worth leapt up, previous to that he thought he was just useless for no reason, now he feels far better about himself and can laugh at the difficulties it brings.

Showering/teeth cleaning/messiness also a huge sign, and one that goes against the ASD diagnosis as that often teams with worries about cleanliness/germs etc.

It’s a really common disorder and one that many people live with without knowing, just dismissing it as clumsiness or laziness, it’s not, it’s just coordination is so much more difficult. I can spot a dyspraxic at fifty paces now, and there are many!

Do look into it, I have a feeling you’re frustrated with him and if you know there’s a cause it helps. There’s also occupational therapy that can help.

When I read the title I was going to ask about telling the time. Experience (23 years in the classroom) tells me that these are so very often linked in some way. Have you talked to your GP to get a referral to paediatric services (or child development depending on what it is called in your area). I’m not going to make any suggestions about a diagnosis as that would be unfair and shouldn’t be undertaken by a random on the internet, but I think it needs looking into.
Doing it now will hopefully have any support he needs in place ahead of GCSEs and further education.

He sounds like my ASD daughter at that age. She was very reluctant to manage her personal hygiene, hid away on her computer, told me she was male etc. Honestly, get in touch with the school senco because they can support you.

My DD’s dad also has NPD. I’m also desperately hoping it’s not that.

I can hear you’re at rock-bottom and I can sincerely empathise. For me, changing my perspective and finding some specific things to focus on really helped.

There won’t be much help available if he gets a diagnosis, but I find it very useful to communicate with others. I also think it’d be useful if she ever got in trouble with the law.

I would phone the GP and get in line for the long referral wait. In the meantime, look up PDA society’s ‘family life helpful approaches.’ I found it very useful.

Keep telling yourself: it’s not your fault; you are doing well to keep going and keep supporting him.

Hi op, he sounds similar to my son (13) except the stealing and teeth washing - he's waiting on a brace so is meticulous keeping his teeth clean. Hates showers but tends to have one at least once a week so I'm not stressing on that really.
He loves gaming - will also spend any money as soon as he gets it. Similar to your son as in riding a bike etc .
He also says he wants to go live with xyz when things don't go his way. He also can't tell time on normal clock.
My son is ASD and dyspraxia. Maybe look at getting him assessed and if he is then there are strategies you can use. The way you word things makes a huge difference to someone with ASD who possibly is demand avoidant also like my son.

Also my son is not sure if he's bi . A lot of children on the spectrum seem to not be sure.

So what have you done to rule out or get him support with potential ASD/ADHD/Dyspraxia ?

Anything ? Because not being able to tie shoelaces or tell the time at 14 isn’t typical. He sounds like he does care about it but is pretending not to.

I’m 59 and can’t tie my shoelaces, nor tell my right from my left. I’m incredibly clumsy - can ride a bike but dangerously wobbly. I was good at school and find academic learning relatively easy. I never stole from my parents, though.

Don’t underestimate how frustrating it is not to be able to do simple things. People would assume I was “acting daft” because I was clever but couldn’t wrap a present for example. Or I was just careless in that I smash so many plates/glasses etc. I believe I may have dyspraxia but no point in a formal diagnosis now,

As for the washing and teeth brushing - thinking back to my DCs teenage years that’s pretty normal and doesn’t last too long.

My 34 DS can’t tie his shoelaces either. I’ve been teaching since he was 4. He just can’t do it! HIs 4 year DD can He doesn’t have any other problems in his life though and is a very successful business man with 3 successful businesses . Nothing to do with tying shoelaces being intricate as he can build computers and intricate gaming machines. Odd!

@Denny53

My 34 DS can’t tie his shoelaces either. I’ve been teaching since he was 4. He just can’t do it! HIs 4 year DD can He doesn’t have any other problems in his life though and is a very successful business man with 3 successful businesses . Nothing to do with tying shoelaces being intricate as he can build computers and intricate gaming machines. Odd!

So who ties his laces then, or does he buy velcro shoes?

There is a lot there that sounds like my 15 year old DD, we are currently on the pathway for an ASD diagnosis - we are around 12 months in, so lots of assessments done … and it looks like “high functioning autism” (I am aware that phrase is a bit loaded). This means she has no intellectual disability, but gets lots if anxiety in social situations, has the hyper-fixations, sensory issues etc.

Taking away her electronics never worked, shouting never worked, being in any kind of conflict never worked … she would end up with a panic attack, hands over her ears, sat behind her bedroom door (so I couldn’t get in).

We have accessed lots if support from various organisations, who have helped me to understand how to parent a child with ASD. We have a great relationship now, she’s really good comes by. Biggest problem st the moment is that she hasn’t been to school in a year … she’s a clever girl though, and if she takes a couple more years to get her qualifications, she takes a couple more years. Her mental health is the important thing.

She’s 15, but the way I see it is that she’s about 2 years behind … but lots if young people are at the moment.

I also actively spend time in her world (even though they are things that don’t really interest me). I know all about BTS, Genshin Impact and NHL, this enables us to have conversations, and spend time together .. it’s nice.

Go to the GP, get a CAMHS referral, read parenting tips for ASD children … the strategies you are using are not working, so use some new ones.

I could never tie my laces the way I was shown. I tried and tried but I just couldn't. I've met a few other people as an adult who say the same, and we are all left-handed. In the end, I made up my own way and have used it ever since (making two separate loops, crossing them over and tucking one through the gap, rather than the finger spaghetti way my parents insisted on). I took a long time before telling the time was easy for me too, and I notice that my children all find it difficult (they can do it, but it takes them time to work it out).

So those are things that can just happen (and one seems much more common in left-handed people), but the whole picture makes me think that your son desperately needs some sort of assessment. I know this isn't easy (in my area, unless the school is complaining about a child's behaviour, it is very, very difficult to get any sort of assessment). Perhaps his school would be a good place to start?
So,

@13yearslater

I have done my utmost to teach him these things. He's not interested. He gets money? He spends it. Immediatley. My AIBU is, .... to involve social services as when things don't go his way he lies down in his bed and says he wants to move out.

I would suggest he needs some SEND intervention. My son who is hyper mobile ASD can not tie laces, my daughter ASD can't tell the time and spends money in five minutes.

@EdenFlower

You can get elastic shoe laces

The difficulties you describe really sound like SEN. To give an example....

My 22 yr DD1 still can't tie shoelaces or ride a bike. She was diagnosed with dyspraxia in primary school as they noticed she struggled to do tasks like buttons or scissors. As a teen she had major hygiene problems & frequent meltdowns. She was socially awkward and not understanding of anyone else's feelings. She's also just been diagnosed with Autism as it was picked up at uni by the disability team.

My 18 yr DS has huge struggles with time, focus and organisation. He talks back as he has no brain to speaking filter. Unlike our eldest who breezed through school, he really struggled from year 9. He has Dyslexia & ADHD. School missed it so we had to go private. He finds gaming a big outlet for his struggles.

As a parent of 3 kids with issues, it's been a huge struggle dealing with my kids. Sometimes they'll have me bawling my eyes out in my room as they have been complete asshats. I'd find out if it could be SEN as there are support groups to help :-)

Haven’t RTFT but another vote here for ADHD/ASC. He sounds very similar to my diagnosed child at that age plus other family members.
Said child is late teens now and is very good at saving his money and brushing his teeth. Still can’t do laces and is very upset that he can’t!

@EdenFlower. He buys slip ons or trainers with elastic laces or gets someone to fasten his laces once ( DD or DW) and then slips them on or off

My son, aged 27, can't tie shoelaces and wears slip ins, he struggles with analogue time, has to be reminded to have haircuts, shower and brush his teeth and never really leant how to ride a bike. He spends any money he earns and takes a week off work every time a new computing game comes out so he can play it non stop. He also has a degree in Financial mathematics and is a trained tax accountant with a responsible job! He has ASD and dyspraxia and needs adjustments and reminders in day to day life, your son sounds similar.

Hope you got some sleep last night OP.

Some of this sounds like normal challenging teen, some of it does sound like it could be adhd, dyspraxia, autism, or a combination.

Single parenting is hard, and it also sounds to me that you are at the end of your rope, and need some support. As a PP said you may have processing difficulties of your own, or be carrying experiences from your past that aren't relevant here.

What is great is that he is doing well at school, so do hold onto that positive.

I think you need to talk to your GP in the first instance and get him assessed, I would also ask your GP how you can access some parenting support. Social services might be able to help with teen/neuro diverse parenting courses (I don't know but hopefully your GP will!). You should also talk to the school. Nothing you have said indicates that SS would have the faintest interest in removing him - it's not uncommon for teens to announced they want a new family etc, so don't take too much notice of that.

I think it would also be worth you joining some single parent and neuro diverse parenting forums and organisations, they could be really useful for strategies and support.

I’m retired but used to be part of an assessment team. With the information here, I would be reluctant to offer an autism or related dx.
He needs you to parent him, I suspect you have given up and backed down so frequently he is aware of how long it takes.
If he doesn’t bring washing down, don’t do it.
Lock your money away.
Turn off WiFi (this is not abusive and you are allowing him to ride roughshod over you)
If he reckons he knows his rights do you know his rights? Do you know yours?
Put a stop to this now. Instigate a routine and then look at things.
And rather than social services talk to Cahms.

gilead of course you can’t offer a dx of autism based on the information here 🙄
As you should be aware, it’s a lengthy in depth process.
Your words here are odd - it sounds like you’re implying this is due to lack of parenting - it may be far from that. IF there’s any special needs then he needs more than simple stricter parenting. Your only good advice is to seek help from Camhs.

@gilead that’s really unhelpful

I’m retired but used to be part of an assessment team.

In what capacity?